Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Nautorius

Commercial Public Houses In Wales Cannot Find Any Buyers

Recommended Posts

This is a bit anecdotal, but does raise a few questions. A close freind manages an estate of repo pubs accross the South west and increasingly Wales. More and more empty pubs are being repod which are in areas where there is no value to them. These smaller pubs, mainly in the Welsh Villages, cannot survive as they are in villages with huge unemployment, where 50% of houses are for sale and where there are a substantial amount of empty properties.

The net effect is that they have been putting them up for Auction with ever decreasing reserves. The last lot went to auction with no reserves and not one sold! In his own words these are not viable businesses, but could simply be developed back to housing stock. Unfortunately there is so much oversupply of housing stock that they have in effect been discounted to zero value.

If you can not give a way a pub for development........the value of other peoples property is in trouble!

In the 1990's my father bought a pub in the NW of England in similar circumstances. Paid £27k for it. Spent £25k on conversion and sold it 5 years later for £100k. He had the cash though as no one would lend against it.

Maybe cash buyers waiting for that right house need to consider this as an option, as you generally get a large property with land for not much money.....

N.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good unencumbered freehold public house, well run with good staff, good beer, good menu will always do well.....what went wrong with the pub trade is the greedy tied landlords released the paid equity and replaced it with debt, they became property speculators not publicans....they ripped the assets from viable businesses, now doomed to fail. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is my example from my saved folder

Powys

Message to Marc of Guy Simmonds, if you are reading this, my offer of £150,000 still available. Or do you still believe £300,000 is a bargain :P:D

History from PB

06 September 2011

Status changed: from 'Available' to 'Commercial'

18 August 2011

Price changed: from '£275,000' to '£249,950'

08 December 2010

Status changed: from 'Sold STC' to 'Available'

18 March 2010

Status changed: from 'Auction, Sold STC' to 'Sold STC'

05 December 2009

Status changed: from 'Auction' to 'Auction, Sold STC'

31 March 2009

Price changed: Guide Price £295,000 £275,000

Price changed: £350,000 Guide Price £295,000

30 October 2008

Price changed: from '£375,000' to '£350,000'

28 July 2008

.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the 1990's my father bought a pub in the NW of England in similar circumstances. Paid £27k for it. Spent £25k on conversion and sold it 5 years later for £100k. He had the cash though as no one would lend against it.

I love all these 'I bought in the 90s and sold for X Y yrs later'

Its irrelevant if you are making an HPC point.

THE POINT is rates were heading down in the 90s and lending was heading up. Where now these?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Message to Marc of Guy Simmonds, if you are reading this, my offer of £150,000 still available.

I offer £125k as I don't believe the 150k offer is still in play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can make a pint yourself for 10p, with economy of scale for under a penny.

At £3 a pint, no wonder it's not a viable business...

People renting spending half their income on housing, at £6 an hour that leaves them £3 an hour, but people have to eat, pay tax and ni, travel to work costs, phone, leccy gas. etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maintenance costs. It gives them a negative value.

Yep,

The cost of ownership until converted gives it a negative value. The company thought they would get lots of £5k-£10k offers just to get rid of them, but they got nothing not even £1. It is not worth the hassle to convert them as buying an existing house would work out cheaper.

Shows HPC has occured in some areas....

N.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love all these 'I bought in the 90s and sold for X Y yrs later'

Its irrelevant if you are making an HPC point.

THE POINT is rates were heading down in the 90s and lending was heading up. Where now these?

Actually trying to make a point that if you are a Cash buyer and willing to do some work it may mean getting the right property now instead of waiting for HPC. At the point he bought the Pub, similar houses were around £70k. He got the right property, made a lovely house for less than £70k. House prices were falling and at bottom reached about £55k for a similar property. However he had the right house and sat tight. It did not matter that house prices went up, he simlply shortcut the drop in the Market to get a great house.

N

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pub companies now have the mindset of property firms so they would rather hold on to the property for some perceived value or belief that prices will soar again.

I suppose it also allows them to use them to make tax deductible losses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pub companies now have the mindset of property firms so they would rather hold on to the property for some perceived value or belief that prices will soar again.

I suppose it also allows them to use them to make tax deductible losses.

A lot of the Pub companies are now shells for the banks who own them. Most companies have breached Covenents and in effect are being run by the banks. The pubco my freind works for is a shell as it is really the bank behind it! No corporate or senior team. Just area managers running the portfolio....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can make a pint yourself for 10p, with economy of scale for under a penny.

At £3 a pint, no wonder it's not a viable business...

People renting spending half their income on housing, at £6 an hour that leaves them £3 an hour, but people have to eat, pay tax and ni, travel to work costs, phone, leccy gas. etc.

That reminds me, one of the few shops to open in Saltney , here in NW, was a home brew supplies shop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pub companies now have the mindset of property firms so they would rather hold on to the property for some perceived value or belief that prices will soar again.

The pubcos that were property speculators have been in lots of trouble in the last few years. The most over-leveraged have sold off hundreds of pubs into a buyers market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at soem point p[unch and enterprise will have to sell their portfolios then it'll be time to buy.

They've been selling since the "credit crunch".

I've been buying. Or rather, backing some of the buyers, through a fund in which I have a few squid invested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the Pub companies are now shells for the banks who own them. Most companies have breached Covenents and in effect are being run by the banks. The pubco my freind works for is a shell as it is really the bank behind it! No corporate or senior team. Just area managers running the portfolio....

Great Info - Classic Elitist string-pulling operation now out in the open!

- you can now see how 'they' are manipulating the younger population behind the scenes and getting them into binge drinking (just like they are taught/peer pressured into on 18-30 holidays on the BAL-earics) / plastered by plying them with cheap 'shots'

They then turn onto & blame it on the population who are being arrested for being out of their skulls and clamp down further on freedom of everyone in the UK!

Edited by erranta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pubcos that were property speculators have been in lots of trouble in the last few years. The most over-leveraged have sold off hundreds of pubs into a buyers market.

Marstons , Fullers, and Greene King are in reasonable shape and not too heavily leveraged for the sector. Spirit, Wetherspoons, and Enterprise are up to their balls in debt.

Edited by Kurt Barlow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marstons , Fullers, and Greene King are in reasonable shape and not too heavily leveraged for the sector. Spirit, Wetherspoons, and Enterprise are up to their balls in debt.

Wetherspoons is in decent shape AFAIK, and is famously expanding while others struggle. Thought Marstons et al had lots of debt too, but manageable, and of course some of them are decent breweries too. Punch has been the biggest loser (wasn't spirit an attempt to salvage something for shareholders?), with enterprise at #2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wetherspoons is in decent shape AFAIK, and is famously expanding while others struggle. Thought Marstons et al had lots of debt too, but manageable, and of course some of them are decent breweries too. Punch has been the biggest loser (wasn't spirit an attempt to salvage something for shareholders?), with enterprise at #2.

Wetherspoons is very heavily geared - something like 340-350%. In contrast GK and Marstons are in the region of 140%. They are also more diversified with Brewery operations, hotels and restaurants and much better spread across consumer sectors. In contrast Wetherspoons has become a one trick pony - young uns on the piss & alcoholics.

GK have been cherry picking Punch's estate. Usually with offers just before another big repayment is due to Punch's creditiors ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.