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Anyone Know Any Wealthy Buyto Let'ers ? Are They Buying, Selling Or Staying Put ?


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Anyone know any wealthy buyto let'ers ? Are they buying, selling or staying put ?

As a 1st time buyer Im trying to guage the money left in the market to buy, should we see a good decline in house prices ?

Around London I doubt there'll be a massive decline in prices due to money still floating around.

Im sure of this when I see the 40K+ cars still driving around everywhere :o

Also I know of about 6 different buy to let'ers / buy to let families & none of them are in any real pain at all ?

Not trying to sound bullish just guaging my competition when it comes to buying at the bottom.

Edited by Crashman Begins
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I know 3.

1. 5 properties in Ireland/NI that have lost massive amounts of equity. He can pay the mortgages but won't be buying any more

2. 5+ properties in one village, last one bought 2010 but now struggling. He has rented out his big house (£1600pcm) and move into one of his rentals (bought at ~£250K Dec 2010, would rent for £750pcm). I assume this was to boost cash flow to cover the BTL mortgages.

3. Business owner with lots of cash, worried about inflation easting away at savings so looking to get a single BTL, no mortgage required.

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I know 3.

1. 5 properties in Ireland/NI that have lost massive amounts of equity. He can pay the mortgages but won't be buying any more

2. 5+ properties in one village, last one bought 2010 but now struggling. He has rented out his big house (£1600pcm) and move into one of his rentals (bought at ~£250K Dec 2010, would rent for £750pcm). I assume this was to boost cash flow to cover the BTL mortgages.

3. Business owner with lots of cash, worried about inflation easting away at savings so looking to get a single BTL, no mortgage required.

Perfect reply

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Also I know of about 6 different buy to let'ers / buy to let families & none of them are in any real pain at all ?

How do you know if they are in any real pain or not ?

If they were more often than not they will not tell you .What is the old saying

" THE BAND WAS PLAYING AS THE TITANIC SANK "

I knew a guy a few years back , there were a few clues that things were not that great which I did not pay that much attention to . It was not until he was declared bankrupt that the full horror was out on show for everyone to see.

Looking back at how it all unfolded ( which was a slow burn that speeded up at the end ) no one realissed how bad things were , and I don't think he did either . People in money trouble have a habit of putting their heads in the sand and lying to themselves , if they are lying to themselves why would they be able to tell anyone else the truth ?

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How do you know if they are in any real pain or not ?

If they were more often than not they will not tell you .What is the old saying

" THE BAND WAS PLAYING AS THE TITANIC SANK "

I knew a guy a few years back , there were a few clues that things were not that great which I did not pay that much attention to . It was not until he was declared bankrupt that the full horror was out on show for everyone to see.

Looking back at how it all unfolded ( which was a slow burn that speeded up at the end ) no one realissed how bad things were , and I don't think he did either . People in money trouble have a habit of putting their heads in the sand and lying to themselves , if they are lying to themselves why would they be able to tell anyone else the truth ?

This is too true but some people do worry and tell others.

My experience is:

1) Old Landlord never gonna sell anything due to owning 10ish outright (UK south)

2) Owns lots(again 10ish) nearly lost the lot(sold spanish property to ride it out) but due to low interest rates it will be bumble along forever (good old Northern Rock) Lots of rental demand due to people who can pay rent but can't get £40-50k deposits together.

3) Experience of auctions and looking personally - the builders and people with cash are still out there and will always beat people with mortgages.

The builders will pay more for rubbish(do-er uppers),family etc.. coz they can do it up for less than the average person. The cash people can decide to pay 5% more to add to a portfolio or buy for their children (or just give extra on the deposit).

Thats not to say that houses asking prices havent been coming down where I have been looking but they were all flying a kite in the first place. When they go from £250k to £210k they sell. (South East)

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Perfect reply

As a result of interest rates which are unrealistically low, again there are distortions in the market. Most BTL are currently staying put and hoping normal service will resume. The pain will come when substantial price falls start to filter through, followed by reducing rents. The top end of rents are strggling already. Renters cannot afford them. Housing ben is being cut and this will affect the flat/small house market soon too.

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Colleague was in the process of buying (he STR) in SW London. Agreed a purchase of a rental property for £645k. Sellers pulled out on day of exchange saying "we don't know what to do with the cash". House now being rented for £3kpm (queue of renters apparently). Colleague even upped offer to £675k but they still refused. He's still looking and is a distressed buyer. Renting is expensive when you can borrow at 3.39% fixed for 5y.

Landlords of high quality properties are not selling.

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Landlords of high quality properties are not selling.

Of course they're not, that's what professional landlords do, it's their living. Get rich quick BTL debt junkies are a different kettle of fish, though, they wont have any choice, they'll have lost their shirts.

Too many people confuse professional landlords who have made their living out of letting and properly maintaining their houses and have built up their businesses over a lifetime, with the BTL crew who switched from dotcom shares to the new "get rich quick" BTL bubble.

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1) Old Landlord never gonna sell anything due to owning 10ish outright (UK south)

+1

Only BTL'r I know is my ex-landlord. Builder by trade, collected a few properties (around 6 I think) on the cheap that needed some work. I believe he has a small mortgage only on the last one he bought.

Still see him in the pub weekly, and he admit's that the return he's getting for his original outlay is still phenomonal. Maintenance costs are tiny, as he has business contacts for anything that could possibly need doing.

Good luck to him, as he was a very good landlord when I rented, and an all round fine chap.

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Of course they're not, that's what professional landlords do, it's their living. Get rich quick BTL debt junkies are a different kettle of fish, though, they wont have any choice, they'll have lost their shirts.

Too many people confuse professional landlords who have made their living out of letting and properly maintaining their houses and have built up their businesses over a lifetime, with the BTL crew who switched from dotcom shares to the new "get rich quick" BTL bubble.

Yup, the crux of the problem. Although I'd add teachers to the BTL crew you mention!

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So it's all a bit mixed then, as usual.

Among my land lord buddies some are looking to buy and some are staying put but no one is selling.

With rents being crazy high like they are now, why would you?

But I still think buying in the UK at this time could well turn out to be a mistake.

It's a risk I would not take unless I had to.

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Thanks HPC'ers

So its as I thought, those that got in early seem to be cash rich.

If anything happens they will just sell a car or two, or move into one of thier smaller properties etc to make things work.

They will support the market downwards causing a slow crash unless something really major happens...

And if banks want 30% deposits for a normal mortgage these types will be the 1st buying at the bottom.

This type of investor definately nneds to be taken into consideration because they will want to park thier profits somewhere instead of leaving it in the bank gaining no interest.

Plus if banks increase deposits that high it will take me another 8 years to save up for a deposit.

1 ) Family 8+ houses bought in the 80's onwards, 2 shops . 40K+ sports car + 3 other cars : Nothing much changed, not splashing cash around as much anymore. Rents have increased in this area

2) Family 3+ houses possible more, 4+ shops . Sports car + 2 / 3 other cars : Havent heard from them lately, rents have increased in this area

I know of more.. the only one in trouble is a young person who bought in 2007.

Got in trouble with the margin requirement, borrowed from friends / family & has had place on rent ever since

Paid of around 20% of mortgage. Finding things a bit hard

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Anyone know any wealthy buyto let'ers ? Are they buying, selling or staying put ?

As a 1st time buyer Im trying to guage the money left in the market to buy, should we see a good decline in house prices ?

Around London I doubt there'll be a massive decline in prices due to money still floating around.

Im sure of this when I see the 40K+ cars still driving around everywhere :o

Also I know of about 6 different buy to let'ers / buy to let families & none of them are in any real pain at all ?

Not trying to sound bullish just guaging my competition when it comes to buying at the bottom.

I know of one who bought many years ago, has no mortgages on any of the properties and is staying put. They are held for income, not for capital gains.

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I know of one wealthy BTL UK based (NW). Bought 12 properties from 2005-2009. Currently has 2 times rent to mortgage cover on portfolio and is just in possitive equity accross the portfolio. He is an IFA and has an income excluding BTl of over £100k. He can afford to sit it out and as Interest rates have gone down has been overpaying mortgages from his own cash hence why he is still in possitive equity.

Owns two german cars and built a large 5 bed detached in 2008. He is comfortable for now and is not scared as his income stayed resiiliant throughout last two years. In peak he had personal income of over £250k...king of the MEW provider. The banks will not lend him any more money as until he has 3x mortgage to rent cover on the portfolio. He would love to buy more but cannot. He has a mortgage (60%) on own house and no other debt.

I know another wealthy BTL who sold out in 2005 (except one flat in Liverpool). Took out over £400k and moved offshore made 50% of his profits in Latvia and Bulgaria..... Still got the money and now looking at re-entering market. Will only look at residential with rental yields at 10% or over. Now looking at buying in Dublin. 2 bed city centre flats with rental yields of 12%. To give you some ideas these flats were bought at €435k in 2007, Reserve at Auction for this week €85k. He wants to buy 5 properties over this winter in Dublin and then look at getting back into London next year if prices drop and rental yields increase.

The first BTL had a high income but Leveraged himself to the hilt. Has had to use personal income over the last 3 years to de-leverage. The second guy also leveraged to hilt but sold out and has sat on cash. This time he will be a cash buyer then will slowly leverage himself as the market softensn stabilises.

N

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I know of one wealthy BTL UK based (NW). Bought 12 properties from 2005-2009. Currently has 2 times rent to mortgage cover on portfolio and is just in possitive equity accross the portfolio. He is an IFA and has an income excluding BTl of over £100k. He can afford to sit it out and as Interest rates have gone down has been overpaying mortgages from his own cash hence why he is still in possitive equity.

Owns two german cars and built a large 5 bed detached in 2008. He is comfortable for now and is not scared as his income stayed resiiliant throughout last two years. In peak he had personal income of over £250k...king of the MEW provider. The banks will not lend him any more money as until he has 3x mortgage to rent cover on the portfolio. He would love to buy more but cannot. He has a mortgage (60%) on own house and no other debt.

I know another wealthy BTL who sold out in 2005 (except one flat in Liverpool). Took out over £400k and moved offshore made 50% of his profits in Latvia and Bulgaria..... Still got the money and now looking at re-entering market. Will only look at residential with rental yields at 10% or over. Now looking at buying in Dublin. 2 bed city centre flats with rental yields of 12%. To give you some ideas these flats were bought at €435k in 2007, Reserve at Auction for this week €85k. He wants to buy 5 properties over this winter in Dublin and then look at getting back into London next year if prices drop and rental yields increase.

The first BTL had a high income but Leveraged himself to the hilt. Has had to use personal income over the last 3 years to de-leverage. The second guy also leveraged to hilt but sold out and has sat on cash. This time he will be a cash buyer then will slowly leverage himself as the market softensn stabilises.

N

the first sounds like he has simply ploiughed all his earned cash into BTL, whether or not it will be profit making in the future is debatable, and anyway, IFA'ing in the UK is simply rentierism based on obscene fees

the 2nd bloke may well be a smart cookie, but it is a brave soul who invests in Ireland right now, or at any point in the next decade

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My experience is:

1) Old Landlord never gonna sell anything due to owning 10ish outright (UK south)

ah you must be a former tenant :-). Actually I have a small mortgage on each property as the IR lets me off set the interest paid against tax. Which is nice.

I'm not selling because I have plenty of money elsewhere: CHF etc and shares and the property is just another horse to back, looks less risky than GBP.

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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