Gps Ordered To Ration Cancer Scans: Lives 'being Put At Risk' By Bureaucrats' New Cost-Saving Directive

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2034914/GPs-told-ration-cancer-scans-bureaucratic-directive.html

Family doctors have been ordered to ration the number of patients they send for life-saving cancer scans to save money.

They are being told to slash the number they refer to hospital for tests including ultrasounds, MRIs and CT scans commonly used to spot tumours.

Last night experts warned the cost-saving measures increased the risk of patients being diagnosed too late and dying unnecessarily.

Britain has one of the lowest cancer survival rates in Europe, and experts say late diagnosis is to blame.

The cuts are being brought in despite Government pledges to give GPs better access to cancer tests in the hope of saving 5,000 lives a year.

Anyone confirm this is happening? Are GP's just sending people for scans that are a waste of time?

[Wahoo]

This is in preparation for the GP's to hold funding instead of the PCT's. The GP's will drastically cut the number of pathology tests requesed, when it affects their budget.

Interestingly, I also note that the threshold for further investigations is also being loosened in the pathology laboratories. For example, blood slides would be manually investigated via microscope, if analyser show monocytes (type of white cell) having a value above 1.5. It used to be a cut-off of 1.0. This means that some diseases such as mylodysplasia MDS, are more likely to be missed. (MDS is a precusor to luekaemia). Loosening the threshold like this saves money.

People will die because of these government reforms.

[izzy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2034914/GPs-told-ration-cancer-scans-bureaucratic-directive.html

Anyone confirm this is happening? Are GP's just sending people for scans that are a waste of time?

Can't confirm whether this is happening but if it is it would be very bad news indeed. In many cases you can't diagnose the nature of a lump without further investigations. These tests should be much more widely, and promptly, available not restricted.

[Milton]

Can't confirm whether this is happening but if it is it would be very bad news indeed. In many cases you can't diagnose the nature of a lump without further investigations. These tests should be much more widely, and promptly, available not restricted.

+1.....Its bad enough as it is. I know someone who could not breath properly, and asked for further tests repeatedly.

Only to be told by his GP, 'There is no anatomical reason to do so'...........

Went to see a specialist, long interview, who also suggested it was probably anxiety..........

At every turn, he was fought against by the very people who are supposed to be there to help.

X ray showed nothing. He got a CT scan in the end. [Only because he went privately]

Lungs filled with thousands of Tumours. Microscopic sizes upwards, and pulmonary fibrosis. [scarring]

He went back afterwards to see his GP, who just said, Mmmm, we'd never have suspected that with you. And, How did you know!?

Edited September 8, 2011 by Milton

[Kurt Barlow]

If people start upping their Vit D, cut down Alcohol and eat healthily why should they need cancer services?

You missed the bleding obvious one - smoking!

[bmf]

This is in preparation for the GP's to hold funding instead of the PCT's. The GP's will drastically cut the number of pathology tests requesed, when it affects their budget.

Interestingly, I also note that the threshold for further investigations is also being loosened in the pathology laboratories. For example, blood slides would be manually investigated via microscope, if analyser show monocytes (type of white cell) having a value above 1.5. It used to be a cut-off of 1.0. This means that some diseases such as mylodysplasia MDS, are more likely to be missed. (MDS is a precusor to luekaemia). Loosening the threshold like this saves money.

People will die because of these government reforms.

People will die because we can't run a deficit forever. The root cause is down to banking, too many public sector workers pushing paper and a generation who are retiring for 30 years. The current government are the messenger.

No amount of wanting to help every sick child can be achieved without thorough reforms.

[@contradevian]

+1.....Its bad enough as it is. I know someone who could not breath properly, and asked for further tests repeatedly.

Only to be told by his GP, 'There is no anatomical reason to do so'...........

Went to see a specialist, long interview, who also suggested it was probably anxiety..........

At every turn, he was fought against by the very people who are supposed to be there to help.

X ray showed nothing. He got a CT scan in the end. [Only because he went privately]

Lungs filled with thousands of Tumours. Microscopic sizes upwards, and pulmonary fibrosis. [scarring]

He went back afterwards to see his GP, who just said, Mmmm, we'd never have suspected that with you. And, How did you know!?

The NHS is very short sighted on preventative medicine.

1. Wanted to be check for Vit D deficiency. Sorry you are not displaying signs of Vit D defiency. Ended up buying VitD gelcaps anyway.

2. Wanted to be checked for thyroid deficiency. Sorry you have no symptoms of thyroid deficiency. Ended up self prescribing Iodine, with "interesting" results.

However they did prescribe me a statin, which I haven't used and I've self prescribed myself niacine and dietary changes. Actually my highish cholesterol doesn't bother me as my triglycerides were low.

So I do wonder if they waste money by not doing a thorough blood check.

[ccc]

If people start upping their Vit D, cut down Alcohol and eat healthily why should they need cancer services?

And regular high intensity exercise. I honestly think that is a 'preventer' for a multitude of illnesses.

[MrFlibble]

Can't confirm whether this is happening but if it is it would be very bad news indeed. In many cases you can't diagnose the nature of a lump without further investigations. These tests should be much more widely, and promptly, available not restricted.

We pay all this money in and then when we come to use it we are offered a third rate service.

Daniel Hannan was right, the NHS has been a 60-year mistake.

[Terribad]

Scaremongering journalism.

Same diagnosis, same availability, different referral. If you have symptoms and status indicative of potential cancer, you will get a scan ASAP.

I agree it could slow things down a little for some patients, but hardly worthy of this shrieking headline.

[Milton]

If people start upping their Vit D,

There isnt really a method that fits all.

Vitamin D [specifically D125] can be extremely damaging to some people. The D-ratio is of paramount importance because the key factor is the activity of conversion in the inflammatory macrophages of 25-D into 1,25-D. Can cause hypercalcemia. And seriously aggravate other underlying conditions you may not have known you had, or are genetically predisposed toward. Such as autoimmune disorders etc..

Edited September 8, 2011 by Milton

[ccc]

We pay all this money in and then when we come to use it we are offered a third rate service.

Daniel Hannan was right, the NHS has been a 60-year mistake.

I actually had an MRI recently. Had ringing in my ear for ages and they do a scan as sometimes can be linked to a tumour. Scan itself was very efficient. However the initial appointment with the consultant was not. Waited about 6 weeks for it - and I got a letter on the morning of the day I was due to be at the appointment. Not very handy. So had to call up to get another one.

Once the scan was done it was 5 weeks before I got the letter saying 'Nothing to worry about all good etc..'

Anyone got any idea how much that would have cost at BUPA or the likes ? Even a rough estimate ?

10 minutes with consultant. one MRI scan. One letter with results. I have no idea what the cost would be. Would be interested to know though. As it would have been done and dusted in 12 days rather than 12 weeks. Which is rather important if you are waiting to find out if your head is about to explode or not.

[Milton]

Anyone got any idea how much that would have cost at BUPA or the likes ? Even a rough estimate ?

Basic BUPA Cover will cost you about 50 a month. [Although use it a couple of times, and they may push this cost up by 25% the following year!!!]

MRI: http://www.privatehe...ri-scan-prices/

An intial meeting with a consultant would cost you around 200. If you went privately they would not have sent you a letter to tell you, the results were fine. They would have dragged you back in to tell you that, and charged you another 100 or thereabouts, then kept sending you for more tests, followed by results meetings, charging you 100 for every five minutes results meeting.

Typical Results meeting: Lasting 3 minutes.

Hello. Your ok Mr CCC, 100 pounds please. Goodbye.

The following year, they would just have repeated the tests from the first year........This what they do, with Private Patients.

Apparently the specialists have to see 6 or 7, just to cover their annual 15k indemnity insurance.

If you go private you will be only allowed to have certain procedures in certain hospitals.Bupa have approved lists. Yes, you will go to a nice clean private clinic, in a nice private room,.

Which is nice.

But it also means if there are any complications, when you are 'under', youre screwed, as only the big hospitals, have the machines to ressaciate you....

[Without wanting to sound xenophobic, I have been in one large NHS hospital in West Yorkshire, the cities general infirmary, where it looks like you are in Indonesia or the Middle East. The white English staff are outnumbered by about 40 to 1...It just does not feel like you are in the UK. And the level of communication is dismal]

Mmmm that does sound rather racist doesnt it.....sorry.

What winds me up are NHS dentists, and the like, where it costs a fortune to train them, which we pay for, they then go into private practice as soon as they graduate.

Completely ridiculous. They should be contractually obligated to spend their first ten years in practice just doing NHS work.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Milton

[mfp123]

We pay all this money in and then when we come to use it we are offered a third rate service.

Daniel Hannan was right, the NHS has been a 60-year mistake.

that not really true when you look at the cost.

if you compare the health service compared to other countries the UK tends to score around the top 15 ish in the world.

when you factor the cost of the nhs and the amount we actually spend, it ends up being the most efficient system around if you measured it pound for pound.

the nhs isnt the best service in the world, but given we spend pretty much the least amount, it is the most effective.

youre getting a 7/8 out of 10 service but paying the least amount of money.

[PopGun]

We pay all this money in and then when we come to use it we are offered a third rate service.

and you used what data and comparison analysis to draw out these conclusions? Some patient's experience good pathways(sic), whilst others it's one nightmare after another. Tis always been the case and always will be unfortunately.

Daniel Hannan was right, the NHS has been a 60-year mistake.

More confirmation of Hannan talking out of his ar5e more like.

The NHS is far from perfect, but then which healthcare system is?

Edited September 8, 2011 by PopGun

[mfp123]

when you compare statistics with comparative nations i.e france, USA, germany, canada, netherlands, australia, the UK holds its own.

it never really comes top in any particular category but its in the mix.

then when you consider the cost of the NHS it is apparent it is the most efficient service. you do get a lot for your money.

[jaspers]

Good article in recent New England Journal of Medicine, 'The Art of Doing Nothing'. It's behind a paywall, although free behind the NEJM app.

[Solitaire]

I actually had an MRI recently. Had ringing in my ear for ages and they do a scan as sometimes can be linked to a tumour. Scan itself was very efficient. However the initial appointment with the consultant was not. Waited about 6 weeks for it - and I got a letter on the morning of the day I was due to be at the appointment. Not very handy. So had to call up to get another one.

Once the scan was done it was 5 weeks before I got the letter saying 'Nothing to worry about all good etc..'

Anyone got any idea how much that would have cost at BUPA or the likes ? Even a rough estimate ?

10 minutes with consultant. one MRI scan. One letter with results. I have no idea what the cost would be. Would be interested to know though. As it would have been done and dusted in 12 days rather than 12 weeks. Which is rather important if you are waiting to find out if your head is about to explode or not.

http://www.privatehealth.co.uk/private-healthcare-services/diagnostic-imaging/mri-scans/mri-scan-prices/

[Jack's Creation]

that not really true when you look at the cost.

if you compare the health service compared to other countries the UK tends to score around the top 15 ish in the world.

when you factor the cost of the nhs and the amount we actually spend, it ends up being the most efficient system around if you measured it pound for pound.

the nhs isnt the best service in the world, but given we spend pretty much the least amount, it is the most effective.

youre getting a 7/8 out of 10 service but paying the least amount of money.

The NHS can be fantastic and dreadful.

It is in principle a good thing for a society to have equal access to health care for all it's members, but there are way too many gatekeepers and bureaucrats in the NHS (the very worst, imho being post menopausal women projecting their unhappiness and lack of status at work further down the food chain)

These Jobsworths kill people.

You can guarantee that the NHS Managers who made the decision to cut back on the scans and lower the various thresholds for further investigation will have not recommended cutting back on management salaries, pensions or bonuses.

Here's a simple multiple choice:-

What is the best course of action to take, given current Govt budget does not cover all Government expenditure. Is it?

(A)Cut back on scans = people die.

or

(B)Cut back on management salaries, pensions or bonuses = people don't die, management goes on holiday once a year, not twice.

You have one hour to answer this question.

[ccc]

Basic BUPA Cover will cost you about 50 a month. [Although use it a couple of times, and they may push this cost up by 25% the following year!!!]

MRI: http://www.privatehe...ri-scan-prices/

An intial meeting with a consultant would cost you around 200. If you went privately they would not have sent you a letter to tell you, the results were fine. They would have dragged you back in to tell you that, and charged you another 100 or thereabouts, then kept sending you for more tests, followed by results meetings, charging you 100 for every five minutes results meeting.

Typical Results meeting: Lasting 3 minutes.

The following year, they would just have repeated the tests from the first year........This what they do, with Private Patients.

Apparently the specialists have to see 6 or 7, just to cover their annual 15k indemnity insurance.

If you go private you will be only allowed to have certain procedures in certain hospitals.Bupa have approved lists. Yes, you will go to a nice clean private clinic, in a nice private room,.

Which is nice.

But it also means if there are any complications, when you are 'under', youre screwed, as only the big hospitals, have the machines to ressaciate you....

[Without wanting to sound xenophobic, I have been in one large NHS hospital in West Yorkshire, the cities general infirmary, where it looks like you are in Indonesia or the Middle East. The white English staff are outnumbered by about 40 to 1...It just does not feel like you are in the UK. And the level of communication is dismal]

Mmmm that does sound rather racist doesnt it.....sorry.

What winds me up are NHS dentists, and the like, where it costs a fortune to train them, which we pay for, they then go into private practice as soon as they graduate.

Completely ridiculous. They should be contractually obligated to spend their first ten years in practice just doing NHS work.

Is private really that bad in regards to having you come back in tiem and time again ? I ahve had it once when yonger under my dads company insuarance. All very simple and straightofrward - no faffing about or extra stuff done just for the heck of it.

The dentist thing is a bit of a joke. Although I am at a really good NHS one so cannot personally complain.

http://www.privatehe...ri-scan-prices/

Cheers. So about £250 by the looks of it. £100 for each consultation. All in £450. Lot of money - but is it worth saving the money and having to wait for 12 weeks instead ? Health is rather important afterall.

[Flopsy]

Chelsea and Westminster hospital quoted me £800 for a MRI scan. Another private hospital in London quoted me £650. Probably cheaper out of London?

Edited September 8, 2011 by Flopsy

[ccc]

Chelsea and Westminster hospital quoted me £800 for a MRI scan. Another private hospital in London quoted me £650. Probably cheaper out of London?

Thats what that link said. Different amounts depending on where on body as well. Brain scan was one of the cheapest by the looks of it.

Was that money just for the scan alone ?