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The Race To The Bottom- In Everything.

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It struck me today that there is a common theme running through just about every aspect of the global economy these days- the race to the bottom.

In the case of Jobs it's Wage Arbitrage- in the case of taxation it's Tax Arbitrage- in the case of regulations it's about who has the weakest to encourage investment, in the case of currencies it's about devaluation to increase exports.

Working conditions and worker benefits? We need to reduce them- health care, social security- we need them gone too. Democracy? Human rights? Both need to be jettisoned as impediments on the path to some economic/social event horizon where our societies are to be sucked into a new dark age.

It seems virtually every facet of our civilisation has now become too expensive to maintain and so must be sacrificed to feed the insatiable maw of greed that the Bankers have created at the core of the system. Debt which has been conjured into existence by the dark arts of the Quants has taken on solid form and now apparently cannot be unmade.

We don't need economists, we need exorcists. :ph34r:

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It struck me today that there is a common theme running through just about every aspect of the global economy these days- the race to the bottom.

In the case of Jobs it's Wage Arbitrage- in the case of taxation it's Tax Arbitrage- in the case of regulations it's about who has the weakest to encourage investment, in the case of currencies it's about devaluation to increase exports.

Working conditions and worker benefits? We need to reduce them- health care, social security- we need them gone too. Democracy? Human rights? Both need to be jettisoned as impediments on the path to some economic/social event horizon where our societies are to be sucked into a new dark age.

It seems virtually every facet of our civilisation has now become too expensive to maintain and so must be sacrificed to feed the insatiable maw of greed that the Bankers have created at the core of the system. Debt which has been conjured into existence by the dark arts of the Quants has taken on solid form and now apparently cannot be unmade.

We don't need economists, we need exorcists. :ph34r:

It reminds me of the early middle ages when life for the majority in England was awful, with a few at the top with wealth and power. It took the black death, and the scareness of labour to arise, that began the shifts towards greater equality - and then it took 500 years to conclude before going backwards post war.

So, in conclusion, global mass die off of humans is probably the only way to reverse concetration of wealth.....

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It struck me today that there is a common theme running through just about every aspect of the global economy these days- the race to the bottom.

In the case of Jobs it's Wage Arbitrage- in the case of taxation it's Tax Arbitrage- in the case of regulations it's about who has the weakest to encourage investment, in the case of currencies it's about devaluation to increase exports.

Working conditions and worker benefits? We need to reduce them- health care, social security- we need them gone too. Democracy? Human rights? Both need to be jettisoned as impediments on the path to some economic/social event horizon where our societies are to be sucked into a new dark age.

It seems virtually every facet of our civilisation has now become too expensive to maintain and so must be sacrificed to feed the insatiable maw of greed that the Bankers have created at the core of the system. Debt which has been conjured into existence by the dark arts of the Quants has taken on solid form and now apparently cannot be unmade.

We don't need economists, we need exorcists. :ph34r:

Tragedy of the commons. Simple game theory...a subject taught to every economist. Just goes to show that no one listens in class.

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One thing I notice is outside of regulated licensed professions which are limited in number by the power of law.. most people are so desperate they keep underbidding each other, until all profit is gone. Not just so that its not as profitable as before.. it goes until there is literally no profit in it.

So its like I'll cut your hair for £20 pounds.. I'll do it for 18, I'll do it for 14, etc.. Until the haircutter cannot even afford basic rent and food.

We've seen even major corporatiosn do this, selling products at a loss until they eventually go under.

Something I didn't fully appreciate until I saw it happening and discussed it on here is how capitalism relies on shortages of labour and ever increasing demand to function.

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Completely agree and it's this that worries me about the future of my children. Particularly my youngest baby.

The downward trend that started 40ish years ago took a much steeper gradient in the last ten years with a massive indebting of the people, of the whole world.

What disappoints me is how many people are or were oblivious to it. As an expat I'm surrounded by British refugees here in the middle east, and there are loads more near my home in Greece. I'd say most don't fully realise what has pushed them to these far flung places away from the rest of their families. They will just quote tax free cash I think.

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So its like I'll cut your hair for £20 pounds.. I'll do it for 18, I'll do it for 14, etc.. Until the haircutter cannot even afford basic rent and food.

Why would you pay twenty pounds for a haircut? I don't think I ever paid more than a fiver in the UK.

This is just another example of a boom-inflated service having to return to reality.

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Why would you pay twenty pounds for a haircut? I don't think I ever paid more than a fiver in the UK.

This is just another example of a boom-inflated service having to return to reality.

True.. However it doesn't look like the cost of rent, utilities and food will return to the old reality. Only the wages.

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Why would you pay twenty pounds for a haircut? I don't think I ever paid more than a fiver in the UK.

This is just another example of a boom-inflated service having to return to reality.

True but on the other hand I think I have paid under a fiver for a haircut for the last 20 years (perhaps around £3ish in 1990). Since I always have the same haircut - I'd suggest that's some serious wage deflation going on.

Rentwise. Perhaps I've been lucky (and moved around the country so not directly comparable) but rent hasn't gone up much if at all in the last decade. I lived at one place for 5 years and the rent didn't move. Utilities, food, transport and council tax have all increased massively though.

Edited by StainlessSteelCat

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It reminds me of the early middle ages when life for the majority in England was awful, with a few at the top with wealth and power. It took the black death, and the scareness of labour to arise, that began the shifts towards greater equality - and then it took 500 years to conclude before going backwards post war.

So, in conclusion, global mass die off of humans is probably the only way to reverse concetration of wealth.....

Not quite as simple as that - the 600 years covered some massive swings. Elizabethan England may have been a better place for the poor to live ( give or take a bit of religious persecution!) than early Victorian England - consider the appalling slums of the industrial revolution. The bouts of starvation caused by the Corn Laws in the early part of the 19th century hit the working people while benefitting the landowners.....

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Tragedy of the commons. Simple game theory...a subject taught to every economist. Just goes to show that no one listens in class.

The only "Tragedy" of the Commons is that they were stolen. It is just another NeoLiberal pseudo economic theory to justify theft with precious little basis in historical fact.

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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It struck me today that there is a common theme running through just about every aspect of the global economy these days- the race to the bottom.

In the case of Jobs it's Wage Arbitrage- in the case of taxation it's Tax Arbitrage- in the case of regulations it's about who has the weakest to encourage investment, in the case of currencies it's about devaluation to increase exports.

Working conditions and worker benefits? We need to reduce them- health care, social security- we need them gone too. Democracy? Human rights? Both need to be jettisoned as impediments on the path to some economic/social event horizon where our societies are to be sucked into a new dark age.

It seems virtually every facet of our civilisation has now become too expensive to maintain and so must be sacrificed to feed the insatiable maw of greed that the Bankers have created at the core of the system. Debt which has been conjured into existence by the dark arts of the Quants has taken on solid form and now apparently cannot be unmade.

We don't need economists, we need exorcists. :ph34r:

I thought this was going to be a gay thread

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The only "Tragedy" of the Commons is that they were stolen. It is just another NeoLiberal pseudo economic theory to justify theft with precious little basis in historical fact.

I meant "tragedy of the commons" in game theoretic sense - i.e. a multiplayer prisoners' dilemma.

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One thing I notice is outside of regulated licensed professions which are limited in number by the power of law.. most people are so desperate they keep underbidding each other, until all profit is gone. Not just so that its not as profitable as before.. it goes until there is literally no profit in it.

So its like I'll cut your hair for £20 pounds.. I'll do it for 18, I'll do it for 14, etc.. Until the haircutter cannot even afford basic rent and food.

We've seen even major corporatiosn do this, selling products at a loss until they eventually go under.

Something I didn't fully appreciate until I saw it happening and discussed it on here is how capitalism relies on shortages of labour and ever increasing demand to function.

Hair cutting is wrong model cos there is no 'middleman' if they run their own business

(obvious is council taxes+energy bills+taxes)

Wot it does is exposes the huge costs-profits 'middlemen' take out of all our goods and the hidden taxes Big Business imposes on us for extracting the raw stuff from the Earth

Price of spice rises (mysteriously) thousands of percent between shipping, from say. Indian farmer to the UK jar fillers!

Think coffee growers and coffee big business - another good example

Some krunt has laid claim to that bit of Earth to be extracted and demands everyone else pay them a sheriff of Nottingham 'extortion tax' to enable him to sit feasting in his castle/dictatorial power.

Edited by erranta

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I thought this was going to be a gay thread

Don't be Koi

Cyprinus Carpio - well known 'bottom feeders' :D

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One thing I notice is outside of regulated licensed professions which are limited in number by the power of law.. most people are so desperate they keep underbidding each other, until all profit is gone. Not just so that its not as profitable as before.. it goes until there is literally no profit in it.

So its like I'll cut your hair for £20 pounds.. I'll do it for 18, I'll do it for 14, etc.. Until the haircutter cannot even afford basic rent and food.

We've seen even major corporatiosn do this, selling products at a loss until they eventually go under.

Something I didn't fully appreciate until I saw it happening and discussed it on here is how capitalism relies on shortages of labour and ever increasing demand to function.

+1

This is so clear in Amazon marketplace & playtrade, where as a seller, you undercut a mega seller & 10 mins later their auto pricing software undercuts you by 1p. It is like fighting the Borg in Start Trek Tng, 'they are relentless'.

I wonder if we will have a battle like high frequency share trading, where the race is to spend a fortune on tech to undercut in milliseconds.

Arguably, in may come to pass, that if you do not have this auto pricing software at all, you may not be able to compete. Perhaps you will not even be allowed into the market place without it as you will be clogging it up with manual repricing.

amazon mega seller World

of Books, had yet to make a profit in 2009, while selling millions of books.

Many of these big corps have massive debts, not available to the little guy. Imo, it has destroyed many parts of the book & dvd market. A combination of auto pricing software and drop shipping from Chinese mnftrs. may be the true bottom, with no middle man.

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship

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+1

This is so clear in Amazon marketplace & playtrade, where as a seller, you undercut a mega seller & 10 mins later their auto pricing software undercuts you by 1p. It is like fighting the Borg in Start Trek Tng, 'they are relentless'.

Not a fan of this race to the bottom analysis. I don't believe it ever gets anywhere near the bottom. An equilibrium is always found. Some people simply shouldn't be in the market.

Don't sell that particular stuff on Amazon marketplace then as it's clear you can't. I'm an internet retailer and I found out the hard way I can't compete on the mainstream items either but then there's no obligation for me to be in business at all. I found some other products that work.

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The only "Tragedy" of the Commons is that they were stolen. It is just another NeoLiberal pseudo economic theory to justify theft with precious little basis in historical fact.

+1

There are many.

Edit: The OP's event horizon analogy was wonderful.

Edited by PopGun

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Not a fan of this race to the bottom analysis. I don't believe it ever gets anywhere near the bottom. An equilibrium is always found. Some people simply shouldn't be in the market.

Don't sell that particular stuff on Amazon marketplace then as it's clear you can't. I'm an internet retailer and I found out the hard way I can't compete on the mainstream items either but then there's no obligation for me to be in business at all. I found some other products that work.

+1 and it would be exactly the same if you opened on the high street and went head to head with Curry's and Comet. I don't know why anyone would think the internet would be different.

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Why would you pay twenty pounds for a haircut? I don't think I ever paid more than a fiver in the UK.

This is just another example of a boom-inflated service having to return to reality.

The only reason you can pay a fiver is because of the relentless undercutting.

Your barber probably pays no taxes and claims unemployment benifits to survive & offer you fiver haircuts

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+1 and it would be exactly the same if you opened on the high street and went head to head with Curry's and Comet. I don't know why anyone would think the internet would be different.

Really? Ebay is now a completely different beast compared to it's inception.

What was once a glorified jumble sale type market place for individuals, has now mutated into a cheap front end for bigger retailers.

It’s all ‘Buy it Now’, I can’t remember the last time I actually bid for anything.

Find a market place, and it will only be a matter of time before the big boys turn up and exhaust it.

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Really? Ebay is now a completely different beast compared to it's inception.

What was once a glorified jumble sale type market place for individuals, has now mutated into a cheap front end for bigger retailers.

It’s all ‘Buy it Now’, I can’t remember the last time I actually bid for anything.

Find a market place, and it will only be a matter of time before the big boys turn up and exhaust it.

Why is ebay worse for having big retailers on it as well? All that matters to the end consumer is the goods and the price, not the source.

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Really? Ebay is now a completely different beast compared to it's inception.

What was once a glorified jumble sale type market place for individuals, has now mutated into a cheap front end for bigger retailers.

It’s all ‘Buy it Now’, I can’t remember the last time I actually bid for anything.

Find a market place, and it will only be a matter of time before the big boys turn up and exhaust it.

Definitely changed a lot but it's all still on there. Plenty of 2nd hand stuff to bid on.

One thing I like about how eBay has evolved is the direct access to Chinese/Hong Kong retails who sell everything at fabulous prices.

Remember in the 90s where a particular propriety cable for some piece of home electrical equipment would be difficult to get hold of and/or would cost an absolute fortune. eBay solved that problem and killed it stone dead. ANY cable, for ANY gadget, ROCK BOTTOM price. Thank you eBay as that was a horrible problem.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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