interestrateripoff Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14806886 Nearly a quarter of UK parents questioned in a survey by the Daycare Trust and Save the Children say the cost of childcare has put them in debt.The survey of 4,359 parents found 58% had cut spending on other essentials like clothing, heating and other bills. Nearly two-thirds said they could not afford not to work, but struggled to pay for childcare. Four out of 10 families surveyed said the cost of childcare was on a par with their mortgage or rent. The study suggests the cost of childcare has the greatest consequences for the poorest families. Of those who completed the Daycare Trust and Save the Children questionnaire, 250 had an annual household income of £12,000 or less. A quarter of these low-income parents said they had given up work and a third had turned down work because of childcare costs. It almost sounds like everyone is overindebted.... Still as long as we can keep house prices up all should be well. These people just need to borrow more, in fact we should be rejoicing in this, perhaps the bankers could offer long term child care loans to ease the burden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14806886 It almost sounds like everyone is overindebted.... Still as long as we can keep house prices up all should be well. These people just need to borrow more, in fact we should be rejoicing in this, perhaps the bankers could offer long term child care loans to ease the burden? We are lucky to have a small mortgage; consequently our daughter's nursery fees are our biggest single expense, and by some margin. They went up 9% in September too and, for reasons I've yet to work out, the 15 hours free didn't have quite the mitigating effect that I'd hoped for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 It almost sounds like everyone is overindebted.... Still as long as we can keep house prices up all should be well. These people just need to borrow more, in fact we should be rejoicing in this, perhaps the bankers could offer long term child care loans to ease the burden? Or we could keep mortgages to 3x single income max, not 'Just about affordable for dual-income no-kids couples'. Heresey, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spaniard Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 ... perhaps the bankers could offer long term child care loans to ease the burden? Many a true word ... For many students the years 18-21 (ish) might be thought of as the otherwise pointless debt-funded extension of childhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Potatoes Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14806886 It almost sounds like everyone is overindebted.... Still as long as we can keep house prices up all should be well. These people just need to borrow more, in fact we should be rejoicing in this, perhaps the bankers could offer long term child care loans to ease the burden? OMG - does this mean that it might actually be financially beneficial for a parent to give up their job and stay at home to raise their own children... the horror of it all... how will society cope with all these children actually raised by their parents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57percent Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 This was on Radio5 this morning, but no-one seemed to ask, what I think is a simple question: Why is the cost of childcare so high? Seems to be £100+ per day. Someone's doing well out of it, but why hasn't those huge prices increased supply? You can get a builder for £70/day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Small Potatoes Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 This was on Radio5 this morning, but no-one seemed to ask, what I think is a simple question: Why is the cost of childcare so high? Seems to be £100+ per day. Someone's doing well out of it, but why hasn't those huge prices increased supply? You can get a builder for £70/day. I've had a lot of experience on the costings behind childcare provisions - the main issue is the staff:child ratios for each different age child - even if you pay minimum wage (which most childcare staff are on) then it's hard to break even. I've seen managers of childcare settings receiving £8.50 an hour - this is a childcare degree educated manager with many years of experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 We are having to look into childcare now and you are looking at £50 for a 9 hour day in a chain nursery like Kids Unlimited . I can see why it costs so much - each carer can only look after 3 children - so 3 x £50 = £150 a day Wages for the employee (with employer contributions) probably work out at £7.50 an hour. 10 hours of that = £75.00 Insurance + building costs + rates + food etc probably come to around £20 per child per day Total fixed costs per day per 3 children = £95.00 So nearly £32 per child per day of cost for £50 of income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 OMG - does this mean that it might actually be financially beneficial for a parent to give up their job and stay at home to raise their own children... the horror of it all... how will society cope with all these children actually raised by their parents? Read one of the wife’s cosmo mags, and out of all the supposed interviewed female 'passer bys' (who were all coincidently middle class and called Tabitha) the most hip and trendy job title appears to be Stay at Home Mum. Nice work if hubby can afford it, or the state is willing to pay for it instead. Once again everyone in the middle is left to do one. Luckily thanks to sky high prices, more and more people are finding out just how little point there is to working and just giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57percent Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I've had a lot of experience on the costings behind childcare provisions - the main issue is the staff:child ratios for each different age child - even if you pay minimum wage (which most childcare staff are on) then it's hard to break even. I've seen managers of childcare settings receiving £8.50 an hour - this is a childcare degree educated manager with many years of experience! Well then the government must be setting the wrong ratios? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terribad Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Oh so people that believe in the traditional family model were right all along? Bummer. That or we're just not liberal enough! We need communes ... or progressive alliances whereby those nice unemployed people look after our kids for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migrant Mother Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Interesting timing for this article given our daughter left nursery yesterday and started school today. During our daughters time at nursery the fees rose from £525 per month to £980 per month, rising relentlessly each year. In the end the fees were nearly twice the mortgage. Still to look on the bright side we learned to live very frugally during that time and so now are well set up to weather the coming storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 What is worrying is this.. We survived the 'Childcare years' by virtue of salary sacrifice vouchers, tax credits, child benefit and latterly nursery vouchers. Apart from nursery vouchers, we'd get none of these were we starting now, and at peak it was something like £500-600 per month. It's going to shatter some people who ave just had kids, especially as they will probably have higher housing costs. The coalition really has declared war on families with young children.. or at least those that work with incomes under 3x the average wage.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terribad Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 What is worrying is this.. We survived the 'Childcare years' by virtue of salary sacrifice vouchers, tax credits, child benefit and latterly nursery vouchers. Apart from nursery vouchers, we'd get none of these were we starting now, and at peak it was something like £500-600 per month. It's going to shatter some people who ave just had kids, especially as they will probably have higher housing costs. The coalition really has declared war on families with young children.. or at least those that work with incomes under 3x the average wage.. How is this the case? Ending unsustainable subsidies for 'alternative' family models is not undermining families at all, unless they demand the 'right' to outsource parenting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 How is this the case? Ending unsustainable subsidies for 'alternative' family models is not undermining families at all, unless they demand the 'right' to outsource parenting. No, but a generation are exposed to and cannot get around the economc situation imposed on them, same as debt bubbled housing. Combine those two and it is a deadly catch 22 - not enough income to service a mortgage, get a second income and see that drained away by additional costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) What is worrying is this.. We survived the 'Childcare years' by virtue of salary sacrifice vouchers, tax credits, child benefit and latterly nursery vouchers. Apart from nursery vouchers, we'd get none of these were we starting now, and at peak it was something like £500-600 per month. It's going to shatter some people who ave just had kids, especially as they will probably have higher housing costs. The coalition really has declared war on families with young children.. or at least those that work with incomes under 3x the average wage.. The UK population demographic was completely structurally fcked from a long term growth ponzi perspective),, not enough children, the uk govt over the past couple of decades has engineered the necessary baby boom it required (engineered via various child benefits and immigration), its been a bull market to be part of. That is now fixed in their eyes, there is no need for positive govt engineering so theyve pretty much stopped (sort of the opposite of Chinas engineering to reduce children). It always bears relative fruit to be on the same side as govt engineering no matter how foolish that engineering may ultimately turn out to be. child incentives will likely continue decreasing whoever is in govt That is all it is really (Of course what they hadnt bet on was a global depression coming at the worst possible time for this engineering to bear furit but thats another matter) Edited September 7, 2011 by Tamara De Lempicka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 How is this the case? Ending unsustainable subsidies for 'alternative' family models is not undermining families at all, unless they demand the 'right' to outsource parenting. 2 kids. Mortgage. Husband works full time. Wife works part time. Didn't realise that counted as an alternative lifestyle, and I'd also point out that we have been net tax contributors throughout, by more than would have been the case with only one parent working and no benefits. If you want to go back to the times of one-worker households, you have to either get wages up a lot, of housing costs down a lot.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terribad Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 2 kids. Mortgage. Husband works full time. Wife works part time. Didn't realise that counted as an alternative lifestyle, and I'd also point out that we have been net tax contributors throughout, by more than would have been the case with only one parent working and no benefits. If you want to go back to the times of one-worker households, you have to either get wages up a lot, of housing costs down a lot.. I'm not going to feel bad about you losing your subsidy. Pretty sick of paying for other people's lifestyle choices. Its not 'alternative' because its become the norm, and that norm is unsustainable. Good luck though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migrant Mother Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The UK population demographic was completely structurally fcked from a long term growth ponzi perspective),, not enough children, the uk govt over the past couple of decades has engineered the necessary baby boom it required (engineered via various child benefits and immigration), its been a bull market to be part of. That is now fixed in their eyes Interesting. What is their purpose for these children raised on benefits? Many of them have good for nothing parents who are "raising" the next generation of good for nothings. What is their plan, is there a plan? Whereas professional parents earning middle income are being royally screwed and simply cannot afford to have many kids if they wanted too. We like many others have an exit strategy. There is no way I want our kids raised here in the long term. Thus the country is being drained and the void filled with more fruits of feral zombie youth. I don't see much hope here either short or long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty1984 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I'm not going to feel bad about you losing your subsidy. Pretty sick of paying for other people's lifestyle choices. Its not 'alternative' because its become the norm, and that norm is unsustainable. Good luck though. It is more beneficial to offer tax relief on childcare costs if it persuades mothers to go out to work, contribute to GDP etc. The childcare subsidy is more than outweighed by the extra tax revenue, leaving everyone better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJay Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Interesting. What is their purpose for these children raised on benefits? Many of them have good for nothing parents who are "raising" the next generation of good for nothings. What is their plan, is there a plan? Whereas professional parents earning middle income are being royally screwed and simply cannot afford to have many kids if they wanted too. We like many others have an exit strategy. There is no way I want our kids raised here in the long term. Thus the country is being drained and the void filled with more fruits of feral zombie youth. I don't see much hope here either short or long term. By rewarding the feckless with houses, benefits and encouraging them to breed by offering more handouts we have bred a generation of idiots. Thanks Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgefunded Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 It's almost as if the best way would be if Dad went to work and Mum brought up the children. Sadly, because people need to buy £3.50 Cappuccinos and £400 phones, this isn't possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 It is more beneficial to offer tax relief on childcare costs if it persuades mothers to go out to work, contribute to GDP etc. The childcare subsidy is more than outweighed by the extra tax revenue, leaving everyone better off. Also I believe it is Marxist ideology for children to be raised by the state rather than by their parents. Helps no end with the programming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 What is their purpose for these children raised on benefits? Many of them have good for nothing parents who are "raising" the next generation of good for nothings. What is their plan, is there a plan? Whereas professional parents earning middle income are being royally screwed and simply cannot afford to have many kids if they wanted too. Ah, I see that you've answered your own question already: Thus the country is being drained and the void filled with more fruits of feral zombie youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 By rewarding the feckless with houses, benefits and encouraging them to breed by offering more handouts we have bred a generation of idiots. Thanks Labour. To be fair, the Tories did it too in their 18 years in power before Labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.