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Sold Price Data .... Is Access To It Healthy ?


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OK.. my hands are up. I'm trying to sell a property that I purchased last October but since then I've been relocated overseas. Not looking for any sympathy but we've run into a bit of bother with our sale.

The thing is.. I've put it on the market for 20% (70k !) more than I bought it for. No problem there. THe buyer will only pay what they believe its worth.

So I get an offer for 45k less than asking, from a cash buyer !. I accept it obviously and legals start asunder. Again no problems.

Then they get a surveyor to check the house... still no problems. Nearly there and then whoooosh

Some bugger apparently pointed out to the potential buyer that I purchased the house last year for a tidy discount to what she has offered. She feels upset over this and the sale looks in danger.

Thing is. What the blinkin hell does it matter what I paid for it. Its not as though in any other form of business, you can go up to someone and say, well I can see clearly what your cost of sales are and thus I feel the price should be x-y. This is business. Its plain and simple down to who is the better businessman.

Forget all the moral hyperbole. I'm simply proposing that perhaps too much data is not good for the market full stop. For those buying from distressed sellers, it gives too much ammunition and too much power to the buyer. From someone like me, who simply wants to exercise a right to change my mind and sell an asset, its bad news.

Either way, the scales are now too unbalanced in favour of the buyer. I propose that we stop access to sold prices immediately. I think it would free up the housing market in no time.

any thoughts ?

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OK.. my hands are up. I'm trying to sell a property that I purchased last October but since then I've been relocated overseas. Not looking for any sympathy but we've run into a bit of bother with our sale.

The thing is.. I've put it on the market for 20% (70k !) more than I bought it for. No problem there. THe buyer will only pay what they believe its worth.

So I get an offer for 45k less than asking, from a cash buyer !. I accept it obviously and legals start asunder. Again no problems.

Then they get a surveyor to check the house... still no problems. Nearly there and then whoooosh

Some bugger apparently pointed out to the potential buyer that I purchased the house last year for a tidy discount to what she has offered. She feels upset over this and the sale looks in danger.

Thing is. What the blinkin hell does it matter what I paid for it. Its not as though in any other form of business, you can go up to someone and say, well I can see clearly what your cost of sales are and thus I feel the price should be x-y. This is business. Its plain and simple down to who is the better businessman.

Forget all the moral hyperbole. I'm simply proposing that perhaps too much data is not good for the market full stop. For those buying from distressed sellers, it gives too much ammunition and too much power to the buyer. From someone like me, who simply wants to exercise a right to change my mind and sell an asset, its bad news.

Either way, the scales are now too unbalanced in favour of the buyer. I propose that we stop access to sold prices immediately. I think it would free up the housing market in no time.

any thoughts ?

You are posting on the wrong Forum.

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OK.. my hands are up. I'm trying to sell a property that I purchased last October but since then I've been relocated overseas. Not looking for any sympathy but we've run into a bit of bother with our sale.

The thing is.. I've put it on the market for 20% (70k !) more than I bought it for. No problem there. THe buyer will only pay what they believe its worth.

So I get an offer for 45k less than asking, from a cash buyer !. I accept it obviously and legals start asunder. Again no problems.

Then they get a surveyor to check the house... still no problems. Nearly there and then whoooosh

Some bugger apparently pointed out to the potential buyer that I purchased the house last year for a tidy discount to what she has offered. She feels upset over this and the sale looks in danger.

Thing is. What the blinkin hell does it matter what I paid for it. Its not as though in any other form of business, you can go up to someone and say, well I can see clearly what your cost of sales are and thus I feel the price should be x-y. This is business. Its plain and simple down to who is the better businessman.

Forget all the moral hyperbole. I'm simply proposing that perhaps too much data is not good for the market full stop. For those buying from distressed sellers, it gives too much ammunition and too much power to the buyer. From someone like me, who simply wants to exercise a right to change my mind and sell an asset, its bad news.

Either way, the scales are now too unbalanced in favour of the buyer. I propose that we stop access to sold prices immediately. I think it would free up the housing market in no time.

any thoughts ?

A potential buyer who offers on a house without checking the last sold price is an idiot. Someone has saved them from making a grave error, just business innit?

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You are posting on the wrong Forum.

Not at all. People on here want a HPC but at the moment there's bugger all movement either way in the market because of the lack of transactions.

Unfortunately, for prices to rise or fall, you need volumes. Either way.

If you think you're going to get a HPC without a massive increase in volumes of transactions you're wrong. You need the lubrication of transactions to enable prices to fall.

Otherwise you simply have this stand off that we can see.

Obviously something like a massive increase in IR's would generate massive volumes and would lead to a fall but this isn't the point of my post

For any market you need buyers and sellers and at the moment, I feel the balance is too far in the hands of the buyers, aided by access to this information that I feel is unfair. Its like being in a card game and you knowing what hand they have but them not knowing yours.

I think you'd say the decks were loaded.

If we stopped access to sold prices, the market could be lubricated and we'd get some movement. Maybe up, maybe down but away from where we are now which is frozen

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Thing is. What the blinkin hell does it matter what I paid for it. Its not as though in any other form of business, you can go up to someone and say, well I can see clearly what your cost of sales are and thus I feel the price should be x-y. This is business.

Your purchase price was an indicator of market value and it does matter a great deal to the buyer that you were trying to rip him off. This is business too.

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I feel the balance is too far in the hands of the buyers

Access to sold prices is mainly good for buyers, but with average house prices over 6x average gross salary, this is hardly a buyer's market.

Edited by Dorkins
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Not at all. People on here want a HPC but at the moment there's bugger all movement either way in the market because of the lack of transactions.

Unfortunately, for prices to rise or fall, you need volumes. Either way.

If you think you're going to get a HPC without a massive increase in volumes of transactions you're wrong. You need the lubrication of transactions to enable prices to fall.

Otherwise you simply have this stand off that we can see.

Obviously something like a massive increase in IR's would generate massive volumes and would lead to a fall but this isn't the point of my post

For any market you need buyers and sellers and at the moment, I feel the balance is too far in the hands of the buyers, aided by access to this information that I feel is unfair. Its like being in a card game and you knowing what hand they have but them not knowing yours.

I think you'd say the decks were loaded.

If we stopped access to sold prices, the market could be lubricated and we'd get some movement. Maybe up, maybe down but away from where we are now which is frozen

I suspect your concern for the market starts and ends with sufficient lubrication to get your potential buyer to cough up 10% more than you paid last year. To say access to sold data is 'unfair' is just a load of ******** on every level.

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A potential buyer who offers on a house without checking the last sold price is an idiot. Someone has saved them from making a grave error, just business innit?

Utterly disagree. Why should they have access to this information ? Its utterly crazy. I simply fail to see why housing has had this recent change. It smacks of communism.

Whatever next, maximum wages ? Maximum profit margins ? Lunacy

So .... again.... why should the buyer be advantaged in this way ?????

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"This is business. Its plain and simple down to who is the better businessman. "

What the blinking heck has selling a house got to do with being a businessman?

Are you the better businessman when you're trying to stop any moral hyperbole, and trying to restrict access to information that would let the buyer find out you're full of sh!t?

"Its not as though in any other form of business, you can go up to someone and say, well I can see clearly what your cost of sales are and thus I feel the price should be x-y"

Why not? "You bought it for X, you spent Y on it, I'm prepared to pay Z". Why do you expect to get 70k above what you paid for it? Do you think that it's worth that much more, or are you looking for a mug, and now complaining that the mug wised up before money changed hands?

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Your purchase price was an indicator of market value and it does matter a great deal to the buyer that you were trying to rip him off. This is business too.

Why is a 10% markup a rip off ? I happen to think the value of the house is actually far higher ? 10% margins aren't that obscene.

Its a lovely house and if I had't been relocated then I'd have happily stayed there.

Of course if the market says that nobody is interested then it won't get any offers. This wasn't the position here. We had a buyer who felt like I did that the house was really nice and commanded a price to go along with this.

Its not as if perfumes, jewellery or other items are priced in this way.

Who cares what it cost ? Surely it matters what value it will bring in the future as a home ?

I'm not ripping off anyone. If they buy my house I'll be doing them a favour.

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Improved access to data makes markets more efficient. IMO I am in a similar situation with the buying at a discount but not wanting to sell. Buyers are bound to ask whats wrong with the place, why did you get such a good deal and is the price really what you think it is... If there is a short gap between buying and selling it means you have changed your mind on the value, 6 months ago you thought the house was cheap, but now you think it is worth more. People want to know why. If it was a cheap house 11 months ago, the house is the same as it was 11 months ago, the simple extrapolation is its still a cheap house and your pretending its worth more...

The other thing it does it get rid of liers, went to view a house owner said they bought it 8 years ago, lovely house, spent time doing it up etc etc... It was a nice house but it felt a pricey for the area,,, checking sold prices and it had been bought 6 months earlier at a very low price, put me right off

Edited by AteMoose
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"This is business. Its plain and simple down to who is the better businessman. "

What the blinking heck has selling a house got to do with being a businessman?

Are you the better businessman when you're trying to stop any moral hyperbole, and trying to restrict access to information that would let the buyer find out you're full of sh!t?

"Its not as though in any other form of business, you can go up to someone and say, well I can see clearly what your cost of sales are and thus I feel the price should be x-y"

Why not? "You bought it for X, you spent Y on it, I'm prepared to pay Z". Why do you expect to get 70k above what you paid for it? Do you think that it's worth that much more, or are you looking for a mug, and now complaining that the mug wised up before money changed hands?

Why shouldn't I see if I can get 70k more ? If I'm wrong then the house won't sell and I will have made a bad move.

Why would they be a mug ? They would have paid what they consider the house was valued at and have bought a lovely house. No mugs. Just a happy buyer and seller.

Its not as if I'm trying to sell a fake painting or something fraudulent. I'm selling a house and she / he can see it warts and all. I'm not forcing or coercing any behaviour. I'm simply saying that I think the house is worth x and if they agree then we can do a deal.

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Access to this information works the other way in a rising market.

Let's say you want to sell a house you bought say in 2003 at X amount then people will look at the price for 2003 and add X amount so it works for the seller in a rising market and against in a falling market.

Simples.. ;)

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Why shouldn't I see if I can get 70k more ? If I'm wrong then the house won't sell and I will have made a bad move.

Why would they be a mug ? They would have paid what they consider the house was valued at and have bought a lovely house. No mugs. Just a happy buyer and seller.

Its not as if I'm trying to sell a fake painting or something fraudulent. I'm selling a house and she / he can see it warts and all. I'm not forcing or coercing any behaviour. I'm simply saying that I think the house is worth x and if they agree then we can do a deal.

you say it is worth x... but you said it was worth y 11 months ago. They are free to believe it is still worth y in the same way you are free to believe it is worth x.

Edited by AteMoose
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Why shouldn't I see if I can get 70k more ? If I'm wrong then the house won't sell and I will have made a bad move.

Why would they be a mug ? They would have paid what they consider the house was valued at and have bought a lovely house. No mugs. Just a happy buyer and seller.

Its not as if I'm trying to sell a fake painting or something fraudulent. I'm selling a house and she / he can see it warts and all. I'm not forcing or coercing any behaviour. I'm simply saying that I think the house is worth x and if they agree then we can do a deal.

Out of interest- did the buyer need a mortgage and had a survey been done?

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I hope this is a troll who started this thread.

But anyway, as you think your not ripping anyone off and your asking what you feel the house is worth, then why should you care about sold price data?

Try saying to the potential buyer that when you bought the place a year ago, it was a bit of a bargain. And you think its only fair that you price the property correctly now you are selling it. You could also explain to them that you're a better business man and because of that you have every right to hike up the price of the property.

Perhaps you care about sold price data, because it reveals to people how much your trying to hike up the price of the property and make a quick buck?

You say that "Its not as if perfumes, jewellery or other items are priced in this way. " but if I am looking to make a big investment, i tend to look around at prices first, whether on the internet or in several shops for the best price. And quite often when you find the best price it lists the original price too. Take looking for a new sofa. I would buy new in a sale where they show what the previous price was. You often see 'was ££££, now £££' on items such as tv's, beds, etc etc. So why not houses?

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I hope this is a troll who started this thread.

But anyway, as you think your not ripping anyone off and your asking what you feel the house is worth, then why should you care about sold price data?

Try saying to the potential buyer that when you bought the place a year ago, it was a bit of a bargain. And you think its only fair that you price the property correctly now you are selling it. You could also explain to them that you're a better business man and because of that you have every right to hike up the price of the property.

Perhaps you care about sold price data, because it reveals to people how much your trying to hike up the price of the property and make a quick buck?

You say that "Its not as if perfumes, jewellery or other items are priced in this way. " but if I am looking to make a big investment, i tend to look around at prices first, whether on the internet or in several shops for the best price. And quite often when you find the best price it lists the original price too. Take looking for a new sofa. I would buy new in a sale where they show what the previous price was. You often see 'was ££££, now £££' on items such as tv's, beds, etc etc. So why not houses?

If you mean am I an ea (Troll then no I'm not. I bought a family home but circumstances have changed and so I'm selling up.

My situation is purely used as an example of why I feel access to sold data is not good, for buyers, for sellers, for HPC proponents or those such as Sibley.

In accounting terms, it would be described as a sunk cost. A non-relevant cost. Completely irrelevant to the future contract between a seller and buyer.

But as its freely available, its giving buyers far too strong a hand and is now freezing the housing market which doesn't help anyone at all

That was my position and I simply wanted to raise it for debate on this housing forum

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No mortgage required and they had their own survey done just to find out if the house was structurally fine. Came back ok.

Would have been interesting to see the banks valuation had a survey been necessary.

My irritation is with the buyer and the legions of them out there like him/her who are making probably the biggest purchase of their lives and dont access the info out there. Sounds like you nearly got lucky at the expense of some idiot.

OK- remove accessibility to house price sold data but in the interest of balance also ban any media spin (house prices double every 10 years, cant go wrong with bricks and morter etc etc etc) and we'll see what your house is "worth"

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  • 433 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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