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And It Begins... In Italy At Least

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14774526

A small town in central Italy has declared its independence and started to print its own banknotes.

The authorities in Filettino, 100km (70 miles) east of Rome, are protesting against austerity measures.

It has only 550 inhabitants and under new rules aimed at cutting local administration costs it will be forced to merge with neighbouring Trevi.

Town mayor Luca Sellari, who stands to lose his job because of the eurozone crisis, came up with the idea.

He created his own currency, called the Fiorito. Banknotes have his head on the back, and they are already being used in local shops and being bought as souvenirs by tourists who have started to throng the normally quiet streets.

The mayor says there is enormous enthusiasm about declaring the independence of the new principality.

There has been such an outcry by small towns across Italy at the government move to abolish local councils and merge them with larger towns that Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's coalition may be forced to backtrack.

In the meantime the new Principality of Filettino - complete with coat of arms and website - is suddenly enjoying international fame.

TV stations from as far afield as Russia have been running news features about Filettino.

After all, the mayor says, Italy was once made up of dozens of principalities and dukedoms. As he says, the landlocked republic of San Marino still manages to survive, so why not Filettino?

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This is the type of thing that needs to happen.. printing their own banknotes, getting people working.

Right now the economy all over the West is dying.. because the bankers have such a strangle hold on the money. And it is in such short supply.

All over Britain you have people with skills who want more work.. and you have people who want all sorts of work done. But they are both all broke, so they sit on the sofa idle. Or they stand around at work hoping for customers.

Austerity for countries with 20% real unemployment and sagging demand is so stupid, its hard to even wrap your head around.

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Good luck to them, Italy had its golden age when there were lots of little principalities competing for mobile labour and capital.

bring it back!

edit - as for health care I think people will be much more willing to pay for and help the elderly of their own village than pay into a large faceless system.

They will also make sure that their money is spent wisely since it i right under their own noses.

sounds good.

Edited by LJAR

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Very glad to read about this, I've been thinking a lot about starting my own currency. However, it would be better to start it from a position of influence, perhaps in some 10-20 years com the next bust. To do it now, I would have to convince people to invest.

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Wasn't there an Alec Guinness film about this kind of thing, where a tiny principality declares war on the US to attract investment?

I saw something else about this town, where the mayor wants the population to be boosted with hundreds of north African refugees from the island of Lampedusa so that it qualifies for municipality status.

It's a gimmick.

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Arent these small italian villages full of the elderly?

I give it a month before they run out of health provisions and beg to come back in, austerity or no austerity.

If they ever found themselves in a position of bankruptcy, they could declare war and invade the USA, like in the Peter Sellers film The Mouse that Roared, and when they are defeated by the US military, they would benefit from masses of international reconstruction aid.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!

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Wasn't there an Alec Guinness film about this kind of thing, where a tiny principality declares war on the US to attract investment?

I saw something else about this town, where the mayor wants the population to be boosted with hundreds of north African refugees from the island of Lampedusa so that it qualifies for municipality status.

It's a gimmick.

Was that film "The Mouse that Roared", starring Peter Sellers?

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The film with Alec Guinness would be "Passport to Pimlico", another story about a small area declaring itself independent. Google it for a rundown of the plot if you want, I've got to get the tea on.

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The film with Alec Guinness would be "Passport to Pimlico", another story about a small area declaring itself independent. Google it for a rundown of the plot if you want, I've got to get the tea on.

Yes, a very charming film with a similar vein to Filettino, however Alec Guinness did star in a number of Ealing Studios films, but he was not in Passport to Pimlico, the leading role was played by Stanley Holloway.

On the theme of cutting ties with the country/local authority, Alec Guinness was in a film called Barnacle Bill, which was about a sea captain who buys a pier and offers sea cruises for people who suffer from sea sickness and his battle with the local council to stay in business, which he does by registering the pier as a ship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yHyYEXzOJ0

Edited by Take Me Back To London!

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14774526

A small town in central Italy has declared its independence and started to print its own banknotes.

It's already happened here - Totnes in Devon has it's own banknotes, although I don't think they have declared independence yet.

http://www.transitiontowntotnes.org/totnespound/home/howitworks

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So I assume if you pay an employee in your own created currency, no income tax is taken on that income by the Govt. Then if that employee uses the created money to buy goods in the town where they are accepted, no VAT is taken from the Govt. and so on and that would go! Or even you could part-pay in the sovereign currency and part in your own created currency, where you only need to pay tax on the proportion of sovereign currency (which you maybe accept from outside traders and can be used to purchase goods outside of the town) but for the swapping of the goods and services in that town - no tax is paid! - surely there must be a law to prevent this!

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So I assume if you pay an employee in your own created currency, no income tax is taken on that income by the Govt. Then if that employee uses the created money to buy goods in the town where they are accepted, no VAT is taken from the Govt. and so on and that would go! Or even you could part-pay in the sovereign currency and part in your own created currency, where you only need to pay tax on the proportion of sovereign currency (which you maybe accept from outside traders and can be used to purchase goods outside of the town) but for the swapping of the goods and services in that town - no tax is paid! - surely there must be a law to prevent this!

Presumably you can barter in the UK anyway, without paying tax. Or am I wrong ?

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So I assume if you pay an employee in your own created currency, no income tax is taken on that income by the Govt. Then if that employee uses the created money to buy goods in the town where they are accepted, no VAT is taken from the Govt. and so on and that would go! Or even you could part-pay in the sovereign currency and part in your own created currency, where you only need to pay tax on the proportion of sovereign currency (which you maybe accept from outside traders and can be used to purchase goods outside of the town) but for the swapping of the goods and services in that town - no tax is paid! - surely there must be a law to prevent this!

If you're really interested there's a least one magazine with a website http://ccmag.net/dp which contains info on time banking and local currencies. Transition Towns (way too hippy for most of you on here, I would have thought) has Transition Books including one on "Local Money" http://www.transitionbooks.net/local-money-how-to-make-it-happen-in-your-community-by-peter-north/ which deals with tax implications amongst other things.

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Anybody know how the Hawick pound is doing?

Hawick wants to become the first town in Scotland to launch its own currency in an attempt to boost the local economy.

A pilot scheme for the "Hawick Pound" is being launched this month to try to encourage more people to shop locally.

There has been concern from traders because of the competition they face from larger retailers outside the town.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/8559637.stm

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All currencies are 'community currencies' in the sense that each has its own community of users.

The obvious way to issue a currency is for the user community collectively to do so, thus cheaply and efficiently providing itself with a debt-free medium of exchange. This thread gives some examples.

However, when that community happens to be a nation state and a privileged minority enforces by law its profitable debt-based rent-a-currency scam, then you are heading for trouble.

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Presumably you can barter in the UK anyway, without paying tax. Or am I wrong ?

I think a value will be assigned to what you've barted in and then you'll have to pay the tax. Or I presume it's up to you to prove what you've barted has no value?

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I'd live to hear more about this - it sounds almost too easy! I'm sure their children will thank them for removing them from debt bondage.

The irony is, they don't need any fiat money at all, though. They can trade using anything they like as money, from bitcoins to silver coins, to buttons.

So, do we expect to see tanks rolling in to 'evict' them from their land too? Perhaps the gypsies just need to declare Dale farm as independent too, if these ex-Italians pull it off! We can all start un-conquering ourselves! :lol:

They could also go back to using natural law, with elements of common/customary law too. Arguably legislative law is illegal anyway, as it doesn't respect property rights, which natural and customary law does.

I will watch this one with interest - any one with any good links out there?

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Presumably you can barter in the UK anyway, without paying tax. Or am I wrong ?

You can barter. However, tax purposes, you must report the transaction value in pounds (using the appropriate fair market value, if one exists). A similar process is required for VAT if a VATable business accepts barter as payment (For VAT purposes, they must issue an invoice showing the amount of VAT that would have been charged if cash at appropriate market value had changed hands - and that VAT must then be paid to HMRC).

So, if Bob's Building Ltd fixes the roof at Bill Baker's, and accepts loaves of bread as payment (both businesses must raise invoices stating the VAT content of the transaction in the normal way - although, this isn't a great example as loaves of bread aren't VATable).

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This is the type of thing that needs to happen.. printing their own banknotes, getting people working.

Work as money printers? It's a growing sector

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Wasn't there an Alec Guinness film about this kind of thing, where a tiny principality declares war on the US to attract investment?

The film with Alec Guinness would be "Passport to Pimlico", another story about a small area declaring itself independent. Google it for a rundown of the plot if you want, I've got to get the tea on.

Alec Guinness was not in Passport to Pimlico, and the film was not about a principality declaring war on the US to attract investment. It was about the inhabitant of a south London suburb who discovers an ancient document ceding the town to France; so, in order to escape food rationing, the locals declare themselves to be French.

The film okaycuckoo is remembering might be The Mouse That Roared, an adaptation of a 1955 bestselling novel. No Alec Guinness in that one, either, I'm afraid!

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I'd live to hear more about this - it sounds almost too easy! I'm sure their children will thank them for removing them from debt bondage.

The irony is, they don't need any fiat money at all, though. They can trade using anything they like as money, from bitcoins to silver coins, to buttons.

So, do we expect to see tanks rolling in to 'evict' them from their land too? Perhaps the gypsies just need to declare Dale farm as independent too, if these ex-Italians pull it off! We can all start un-conquering ourselves! :lol:

They could also go back to using natural law, with elements of common/customary law too. Arguably legislative law is illegal anyway, as it doesn't respect property rights, which natural and customary law does.

I will watch this one with interest - any one with any good links out there?

Don't know if you have heard of the Lewes pound?

http://thelewespound.org/

The Worgl stamp script of 1932?

http://www.naturalmoney.org/example.html

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Presumably you can barter in the UK anyway, without paying tax. Or am I wrong ?

I think you are wrong here. If HMRC finds out about it, then you can be taxed on what the trade was worth iirc.

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I think you are wrong here. If HMRC finds out about it, then you can be taxed on what the trade was worth iirc.

i know someone who bartered for some horse manure, would like to see the look on the tax mans face when he sent them their share. But i think you're right, it will be taxable, no way will there be such an obvious loop hole left unclosed.

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  • 334 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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