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Edinburgh Trams: Council Backs St Andrew Square Option

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14751711

..

Work is now due to restart on Princes Street on Monday and trams will run at the earliest in 2014.

...

The report further recommended agreement to fund the borrowing required "out of current and future resources as set out in the funding proposals and to allow the council flexibility to adopt alternative sources if considered appropriate".

The trams project, which is over budget and late, has been plagued with controversy.

It seems nuts not to run it into the City Centre, however no surprises it's already over budget and late. And nothing will be running for at least another 3 years...

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It was a shit idea to begin with, they should just have built a spur off the Edinburgh to Glasgow rail line, it would be finished by now.

Infrastructure projects are a perfect example of just how low the UK has fallen. The last project I worked on was the Airdrie to Bathgate Rail Link, everything was about cutting costs. New stations were built and the talk was all about modular this, standardise that. Network Rail want to introduce a standard kit like station that can be flung up at minimal cost. I'm now working building a passenger line extension in Brisbane, words like legacy, aesthetics and icon get used to describe stations being designed. The Queensland Govt. are willing to stump up a fortune and build a station based on the likely passenger usage in 20 years, when the station is builtin 2013 there will bevirtually nothing else there.

Whilst Asia, Australia and even some South American countries plan for the future, building high speed railways, the UK just goes backwards, If they commited to it, they could build a high speed line from London to the North West in 3 years easy, instead it may be built by 2030 by which point it will be obsolete.

Whilst all our politicians continue to concentrate on lining their own pockets, the UK just falls further and further behind.

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It was a shit idea to begin with, they should just have built a spur off the Edinburgh to Glasgow rail line, it would be finished by now.

Infrastructure projects are a perfect example of just how low the UK has fallen. The last project I worked on was the Airdrie to Bathgate Rail Link, everything was about cutting costs. New stations were built and the talk was all about modular this, standardise that. Network Rail want to introduce a standard kit like station that can be flung up at minimal cost. I'm now working building a passenger line extension in Brisbane, words like legacy, aesthetics and icon get used to describe stations being designed. The Queensland Govt. are willing to stump up a fortune and build a station based on the likely passenger usage in 20 years, when the station is builtin 2013 there will bevirtually nothing else there.

Whilst Asia, Australia and even some South American countries plan for the future, building high speed railways, the UK just goes backwards, If they commited to it, they could build a high speed line from London to the North West in 3 years easy, instead it may be built by 2030 by which point it will be obsolete.

Whilst all our politicians continue to concentrate on lining their own pockets, the UK just falls further and further behind.

Or the Fife line that actually goes past the ******ing runway itself !!

Or maybe tried to do something smart with consolidating these two lines and a new spur from the Airport ? Would be a huge job - but then with £600 million I am sure it would be easily done. And I doubt it would have taken 6+ years to complete.

Or they could have put it all into the road network, new/improved bus lanes into all the main arteries of the City - and built numerous new defined proper cycle lanes.

With £600 million to spend ? Edinburgh could have had one of the best bus and cycle routes in the country - if not Europe.

But no - we get half a tram line - to replace 2 already very popular and profitable bus routes - that could have been combined - and this tram will not even go the full distance that these 2 bus routes already go. Some of these bus routes were already off road on designated bus roads. These off road bus routes were only put in about 2 years prior to the tram works being started.

It is not a joke. It is not beyond a joke. It is beyond that.

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Clearly the project managers weren't, uh, "incentivized" enough to succeed on time and within the budget. I'm sure the promise of a large bonus would have ensured delivery of key milestones. Why oh why does no-one learn?

I suspect had everyone top to bottom been offered a (say) 25% bonus if the project had been completed on time and on budget it would have been more likely to happen.

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It is not a joke. It is not beyond a joke. It is beyond that.

+1

Someone, somewhere made a couple of errors which haven't been spotted. It could have been more than one person or even a group of people.

Those people should consider themselves lucky that Scotland is not China.

And even if the project is 'successful' - it will leave Edinburgh with an ugly white train (don't be fooled - it's not really a tram) running through the historic city centre.

As much as I love Edinburgh, as a capital city it has the worst infrastructure in Europe (roads, pavements, etc.).

The parliament building and the tram project are living proof that the current Scottish elite can't build things anymore.

And boy, they used to be so good at building things in the past.

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+1

Someone, somewhere made a couple of errors which haven't been spotted. It could have been more than one person or even a group of people.

Those people should consider themselves lucky that Scotland is not China.

And even if the project is 'successful' - it will leave Edinburgh with an ugly white train (don't be fooled - it's not really a tram) running through the historic city centre.

As much as I love Edinburgh, as a capital city it has the worst infrastructure in Europe (roads, pavements, etc.).

The parliament building and the tram project are living proof that the current Scottish elite can't build things anymore.

And boy, they used to be so good at building things in the past.

Yep gone from quite amazing stuff to being a joke of a place.

Although the trams are not the 1st. We have had the Parliament recently and a bit further back Edinburghs Folly.

Folly

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Yep gone from quite amazing stuff to being a joke of a place.

Although the trams are not the 1st. We have had the Parliament recently and a bit further back Edinburghs Folly.

Folly

Edinburgh tram tracks BEFORE they've even been used :o

shocking!

Edited by Pole

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And boy, they used to be so good at building things in the past.

Nah, it was Glaswegians and Dundonians who did all the making. Edinbuggers should stick to what they're good at : praying and lawyering.

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The whole thing is a disgrace. Somebody at the top is making money out of this, guaranteed.

Look at some of the amazing structures erected in other countries in record times. And we can't build a tram track.

If you're reading this guitarman, tram drivers get paid 30-40k ;)

PLEASE tell me you are joking..... this will be the last straw. (You know I genuinely don't know if you're being serious!)

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The whole thing is a disgrace. Somebody at the top is making money out of this, guaranteed.

Look at some of the amazing structures erected in other countries in record times. And we can't build a tram track.

PLEASE tell me you are joking..... this will be the last straw. (You know I genuinely don't know if you're being serious!)

yea trolled, i cant back that up :D

But london train drivers get that much, so its not unthinkable!

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Or the Fife line that actually goes past the ******ing runway itself !!

Or maybe tried to do something smart with consolidating these two lines and a new spur from the Airport ? Would be a huge job - but then with £600 million I am sure it would be easily done. And I doubt it would have taken 6+ years to complete.

Or they could have put it all into the road network, new/improved bus lanes into all the main arteries of the City - and built numerous new defined proper cycle lanes.

With £600 million to spend ? Edinburgh could have had one of the best bus and cycle routes in the country - if not Europe.

But no - we get half a tram line - to replace 2 already very popular and profitable bus routes - that could have been combined - and this tram will not even go the full distance that these 2 bus routes already go. Some of these bus routes were already off road on designated bus roads. These off road bus routes were only put in about 2 years prior to the tram works being started.

It is not a joke. It is not beyond a joke. It is beyond that.

I fly regularly into Edinburgh airport. The bus service to Waverley is perfect. Fast, one every 10 mins or less and quite cheap. (£6 return or thereabouts). If I'm in a hurry, I jump in a black cab to my city destination. About £20. And fast as it uses the bus lanes.

The only reasons I can think of why the council wanted a tram line are vanity and kick-backs being paid to vested interests.

Certainly not the wish of Joe Public... :rolleyes:

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The only reasons I can think of why the council wanted a tram line are vanity and kick-backs being paid to vested interests.

Certainly not the wish of Joe Public... :rolleyes:

The question is: what would be the next 'much needed' project?

A new road bridge to Fife perhaps?

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I was in Edinburgh today and saw for myself the cracks around the tram tracks along Princes Street. It's embarrassing that our government has let it get so out of control (although I believe it was the Labour administration that came up with the idea and let it get to a point of no return).

At the time the idea was first floated I never spoke to a single person that thought it was a good idea. No one could see the point of it. It was going to be of very little use to commuters as it was only going to have one route. The majority of commuters that travel into Edinburgh either come by train or bus. As others have said the buses are fantastic in Edinburgh. All the tram is going to do is reduce the number of buses. No one wanted or asked for this. The only people that will probably use the trams will be tourists as I can't see them being cheaper than the buses. In my opinion (and others I've spoken to) it was a vanity project. Something for someone to put their name to. I doubt they would be keen to associate themselves with it now though.

As CCC has said, the Fife circle line runs past the end of the main runway at Edinburgh airport. If your going to the airport from Fife, you sometimes wish you could stop the train and jump out. A spur off the Fife circle line wouldn't be as impressive as a nice shiny tram system though. It would be a hell of a lot more practical though.

Also as Pole said, if they can't even build a simple tram line, which there used to be lots of all over Scotland, it scares me to think of the potential fiasco that a new bridge might bring!

Edited by lovelyhead

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A spur off the Fife circle line wouldn't be as impressive as a nice shiny tram system though.

That ugly white 'tram' (it's a light train in fact) matches Edinburgh city centre in the same way my white trainers are matching my suit.

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That ugly white 'tram' (it's a light train in fact) matches Edinburgh city centre in the same way my white trainers are matching my suit.

Yeah true! The whole thing is a farce and a national disgrace.

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It's just our Scottish buddies bespattering the wall with someone else's money as usual.

They are so keen on this chimera of the "canny" Scot because nothing could be further from the truth.

I was in Dundee ten days ago. They are building a great big new swimming pool near the north end of their bridge with a nice big window in it's nice big north wall. That'll give the bathers plenty of uplifting sunlight in that sun drenched ...

Now I might be wrong about this because I didn't pay too close attention but then I might be right.

What makes me chuckle is how much of a hash they are gonna make of their next Forth crossing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8729317/Scotland-to-become-third-world-economy-by-2030.html

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Yeah true! The whole thing is a farce and a national disgrace.

Seems that everybody is blaming everybody else.

But ultimately the council is responsible for the project management.

. . . sources believe that events have revealed the council and Tie (Edinburgh Tram Company) to be too inexperienced to manage such a large and complex project

Probably they should have handed over the whole thing to Bilfinger Berger, who have experience of some fairly impressive projects in Europe. Try their Polish website:

http://www.bilfinger.pl/

Eastern European cities have been doing no end of tram projects in recent years, so experience needn't have been in short supply.

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It's just our Scottish buddies bespattering the wall with someone else's money as usual.

They are so keen on this chimera of the "canny" Scot because nothing could be further from the truth.

I was in Dundee ten days ago. They are building a great big new swimming pool near the north end of their bridge with a nice big window in it's nice big north wall. That'll give the bathers plenty of uplifting sunlight in that sun drenched ...

Now I might be wrong about this because I didn't pay too close attention but then I might be right.

What makes me chuckle is how much of a hash they are gonna make of their next Forth crossing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8729317/Scotland-to-become-third-world-economy-by-2030.html

One reason I vote and support the SNP - they opposed the tram project from the get-go. Recognising the poor cost management and contracts put in place. The sooner we get ALL the Liebore, Tory and LiBDum(ass) British Nationalists the hell out of our country the better.

By the way mate - anyone who's read the McCrone report knows the REAL reason Scotland is so messed up and at risk of being classed 3rd world....

Colonial rape continues...

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And you wouldn't do that with your own money, would ya?

Well, it's politics, isn't it.

I'm sure the project was paved with good intentions. Boost for local employment, local tram company etc.

Along with some malintentions of course. I suspect from comments here and the press, there were better ways of moving citizens from the airport to the city centre. So, possibly a vanity project too. Makes some councillors look good. (Or might have done.) I don't have enough local knowledge to make a judgement on the necessity or viability of the route.

I liked the view of the other poster (mranderson66) , with evident experience of such projects, that cost-cutting shouldn't be the main criteria. When you dig up old infrastructure, you find all kinds of nasties. From decaying Victorian sewers to unexploded WW2 bombs. It's a massive undertaking and clearly the council made no contingency whatsoever. So now the focus is on money, not transportation.

I've been in Berlin lately where the Ostkreuz rail/S-Bahn/U-Bahn crossing is still under construction. This 'needed doing' in 1937 but kinda got postponed by things like wars and a cash-strapped DDR.

Ostkreuz has gone over budget many more times than the Edinburgh tramway. But you either need infrastructure or you don't, so Berlin continues.

The shortening of the Edinburgh route suggests to me they really didn't need it in the first place.

All that said and done, I'd have hired an old Eastern Euro tram firm, like Tatra, in the first place. The first time I went to Poznan, late nineties. I asked about the lions on the Poznan trams. Oh, apparently they bought up the old Amsterdam trams. Transplanted from one day to the next. The Czechs or Poles would have had a tram system running in Edinburgh by now, no problem.

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And so would the Scots if they had been spending their own money.

I mean come on, we're only talking about building a blinking tramway here.

Everyone does it. It's not difficult. It's just trams. WE all had them back in the 1920's.

But because the Scots are spending English money, they're not paying attention, they are being fly and it all ends up being wasted.

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And so would the Scots if they had been spending their own money.

I mean come on, we're only talking about building a blinking tramway here.

Everyone does it. It's not difficult. It's just trams. WE all had them back in the 1920's.

But because the Scots are spending English money, they're not paying attention, they are being fly and it all ends up being wasted.

Yaaawwwwwwwwnnn - Croydon trams cost 200million - and that was in 1996 cash - pound's worth shite now...

Now toddle off Goebbels and spin your lies of dependency elsewhere...

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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