Mr & Mrs Average In Ni

[Citrus Zest]

Do people actually get payrises still? I havent had a pay rise in 3years.

On a positive note I have just accepted a new job offer this week out in industry with better pay and prospects. However instead of being overjoyed i am very nervous about it and have had lots of sleepless nights considering it as i have a baby on the way and lots of businesses are so unstable right now (i currently work for a chartered accountants and see first hand every day just how tight cashflow it is out in industry).

[Shotoflight]

Do people actually get payrises still? I havent had a pay rise in 3years.

On a positive note I have just accepted a new job offer this week out in industry with better pay and prospects. However instead of being overjoyed i am very nervous about it and have had lots of sleepless nights considering it as i have a baby on the way and lots of businesses are so unstable right now (i currently work for a chartered accountants and see first hand every day just how tight cashflow it is out in industry).

Cuts 'hitting jobless services'

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/cuts-hitting-jobless-services-16054050.html

The service is staffed to cope with around 35,000 — but has a current claimant count of more than 60,000.

And the main back-to-work initiative for adults — the Steps to Work programme — has seen demand rocket over recent months.

In 2009/10, when it was launched, around 18,000 people signed up but the total rose in the last financial year to almost 27,000, an increase of 49%.

[Shotoflight]

£16,000: the staggering annual cost of childcare for struggling families

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/16000-the-staggering-annual-cost-of-childcare-for-struggling-families-16056107.html

[tinbin]

£16,000: the staggering annual cost of childcare for struggling families

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/16000-the-staggering-annual-cost-of-childcare-for-struggling-families-16056107.html

You could be forgiven for thinking that the Bel Tel get ideas for their stories by reading this forum! You heard it here first. Childcare costs are no laughing matter

Article in Daily Mail (Re Average Family)

 £728 a year squeeze on family spare cash

Families are typically £728 a year worse off than 12 months ago, a study showed yesterday. The decline - more severe than during the 2008 recession - comes amid warnings that the cost of living squeeze is about to get worse. The monthly Asda Income Tracker claims families have never had it so tough with a 7.9 per cent fall in average household discretionary spending. This means that after covering must-pay bills for food, heat, light, and the mortgage or rent, the average family is left with just £162 a week for everything else.

Edited September 28, 2011 by tinbin

[Shotoflight]

You could be forgiven for thinking that the Bel Tel get ideas for their stories by reading this forum! You heard it here first. Childcare costs are no laughing matter

Article in Daily Mail (Re Average Family)

 £728 a year squeeze on family spare cash

Families are typically £728 a year worse off than 12 months ago, a study showed yesterday. The decline - more severe than during the 2008 recession - comes amid warnings that the cost of living squeeze is about to get worse. The monthly Asda Income Tracker claims families have never had it so tough with a 7.9 per cent fall in average household discretionary spending. This means that after covering must-pay bills for food, heat, light, and the mortgage or rent, the average family is left with just £162 a week for everything else.

And if you managed to put some savings away for a 'rainy day'

Inflation steals £2,500 from typical savers in slow motion bank robbery

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100012236/inflation-steals-2500-from-typical-savers-in-slow-motion-bank-robbery/

Bu*gered all ends up!

[2buyornot2buy]

£16,000: the staggering annual cost of childcare for struggling families

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/16000-the-staggering-annual-cost-of-childcare-for-struggling-families-16056107.html

Can someone remind me why the VIs here think that dual income multipliers are the way to go in assessing mortgage affordability? How the hell do they think it is sustainable?

[Shotoflight]

Can someone remind me why the VIs here think that dual income multipliers are the way to go in assessing mortgage affordability? How the hell do they think it is sustainable?

Civil partnership & sprogless. It's the way to go!

[2buyornot2buy]

Civil partnership & sprogless. It's the way to go!

lol

[Shotoflight]

We're C*ap and we know we are - good job they didn't split it by region!

UK 'officially bottom of pile'

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/uk-officially-bottom-of-pile-16056590.html

The UK is the worst place to live in Europe, with people getting a "raw deal" on quality of life and high cost of living, a study has revealed.

The UK also came bottom of another table based on the cost of energy, petrol, food, alcohol, cigarettes, and life expectancy.

Households in the UK struggled with a high cost of living, with food and diesel prices the highest in Europe, while unleaded petrol, alcohol and cigarettes all cost more than the European average, said the report.

People in the UK now have the lowest holiday entitlement in Europe as well as having one of the highest retirement ages, the study found.

Another 'accolade'

Belfast is the pits if you don't own a car

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/motoring/belfast-is-the-pits-if-you-dont-own-a-car-16056429.html

Belfast is among the hardest cities in Europe to get around without a car, a major new report has found.

The city has been ranked second-to-last in a 13-strong table compiled by the Campaign for Better Transport (CBT).

Only 12th out of 13? We must up our game - not used to coming second (last).

Now, where's them £4 Billion of cuts our politicians have 'negotiated' for us? It's the right thing to do, and has been for some considerable while, for hard working families because we are all in this together, going forward to becoming fit for purpose.

[shifty_FTB]

many home owners are out of touch here.

end terrace property near me has appeared on property news today for £139,950

3 bedrooms with one being a box room.

similiar houses in the are have asking prices around £90,000 and even these are not sellins so when would someone believe that such a house is worth £139,950, especially the agent who put it on for that rediculous price, RV is probably £80k or less

[shifty_FTB]

many home owners are out of touch here.

end terrace property near me has appeared on property news today for £139,950

3 bedrooms with one being a box room.

similiar houses in the area have asking prices around £90,000 and even these are not selling so when would someone believe that such a house is worth £139,950, especially the agent who put it on for that rediculous price, RV is probably £80k or less

spelling , suprised you cant edit posts here

[2buyornot2buy]

many home owners are out of touch here.

end terrace property near me has appeared on property news today for £139,950

3 bedrooms with one being a box room.

similiar houses in the are have asking prices around £90,000 and even these are not sellins so when would someone believe that such a house is worth £139,950, especially the agent who put it on for that rediculous price, RV is probably £80k or less

Typical Templeton really. They haven't a clue.

[2buyornot2buy]

spelling , suprised you cant edit posts here

You can. Select your post and click the edit button that appears. I can on my mobile anyway.

[Shotoflight]

Why 50pc tax row misses the point: what about the squeezed middle?

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100012271/why-50pc-tax-row-misses-the-point-what-about-the-squeezed-middle/

A toxic combination of income tax, National Insurance Contributions (NICs) and means-tested tax credit withdrawals hits hard-working members of the squeezed middle and means other people living on less than national average earnings have a top marginal tax rate of 73pc.

Mike Warburton of accountants Grant Thornton pointed out: “This means that someone earning as little as £144 a week keeps only 27 pence from every £1 that they earn above minimal limits. I am not sure how this reconciles with politicians’ promises to make work pay. It is hardly an incentive to get up early and make an extra effort.”

Nor are unexpected and unwelcome tax spikes confined to people on very low earnings; marginal rates higher than 50pc also hit families earning just over £40,000.

[Shotoflight]

This whole article is worth a couple of minutes of your time. Even I can understand it. FWIW, I think QE2 is nailed on next month/Early Nov at the latest..

Why QE2 would be a disaster for Britain

http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/economics/uk/quantitative-easing-qe2-a-disaster-for-britain-14000

This shouldn't come as a huge surprise. The average family is poorer by around £60 a month than it was a year ago, reckons supermarket group Asda. The company has been keeping track of household incomes since January 2007, and the latest fall was the worst it's yet recorded.

[Citrus Zest]

many home owners are out of touch here.

end terrace property near me has appeared on property news today for £139,950

3 bedrooms with one being a box room.

similiar houses in the are have asking prices around £90,000 and even these are not sellins so when would someone believe that such a house is worth £139,950, especially the agent who put it on for that rediculous price, RV is probably £80k or less

It's not an end terrace it's an 'Attractive Semi Detached Villa' that's why it's 50k dearer silly

[Shotoflight]

Top of the tree yet again

£2,100: our annual energy bill

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/2100-our-annual-energy-bill-16057676.html

With gas costs soaring by over 35% and power rising by almost 19%, the watchdog has said customers will have to pay an extra £200-a-year on heating and lighting their home. The bad news will affect everyone.

Northern Ireland has the highest energy bills in the United Kingdom and recent statistics show the highest average UK bill is around £1,000 cheaper than the average combined oil and electricity bill here. “The Consumer Council does not believe electricity regulation and energy policy is working as well as it could for consumers,” Ms McKeown said.

“Electricity bills in Northern Ireland are around 11% more expensive than electricity bills in Great Britain. The profit levels of the electricity generators in Northern Ireland have a profit ratio of 33%, compared to the Top 100 Companies which have an average profit margin of 4%,” she said.

[Shotoflight]

UK articles. I think we can safely assume that NI is worse.

Household spending at lowest level for 10 years

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/8809820/Household-spending-at-lowest-level-for-10-years.html

Household spending on essentials has fallen to its lowest level in almost a decade as families tighten their belts amid growing fears over the economy

According to the Office for National Statistics, consumers spent £620million less on food, equivalent to £30 per household, during the three months to the end of June compared with the first three months of the year.

Total spending on food was £18.6billion, the lowest quarterly figure since the spring of 2002.

Petrol sales and spending on other forms of transport slumped to a level last seen in early 2000. At £28.1billion it was down £820million, equivalent to £35 less per household.

Retailers left reeling as shoppers tighten belts

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/05/retail-suffers-as-consumer-spending-down

Figures also showed the 2008-09 recession was deeper than originally thought and the worst downturn since the second world war.

Tesco boss Philip Clarke compared life in Britain in 2011 to the early 90s recession: "I remember bringing up a young family in the late 80s and early 90s. It was pretty tough then when interest rates rocketed and it feels like that to me [now]."

Clarke said the spike in petrol prices in particular was having a "pernicious" effect on already stretched household budgets. The higher oil price meant Tesco shoppers spent £750m more to fill up their cars between February and August, money that could have been spent elsewhere, he said.

We have seen a downturn in consumer confidence in the weeks following the UK riots and trading has deteriorated further in the last four weeks," said chief executive Ben Gordon.

Richard Hyman, strategic retail adviser at Deloitte, said: "Three major groups: consumers, businesses and sovereign states have been affected by the economic turmoil and the constituency which has acted fastest, and in a coherent and tactical way, is consumers." Hyman said it was "totally predictable" that next year would be worse and it would see a full 12 months of the government's austerity drive.

Forward-looking data has revealed a sharp drop in confidence since the spring, especially in key sectors such as manufacturing and services.

More than a million extra households say they are scrimping to pay the bills compared with a year ago, a survey by Legal & General found. The company said that 11.5million homes, around half, were in danger of sinking into debt.

[Shotoflight]

Confidence building.

Bank governor Sir Mervyn King warns UK could be facing 'the most serious financial crisis at least since the 1930s if not ever'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/oct/06/quantitative-easing-75bn-bank-of-england

The Bank of England has taken action to kickstart Britain's flatlined economy by pumping another £75bn into the banking system, more than economists had expected.

Faced with growing warnings of a double-dip recession and a eurozone crisis, the Bank is setting aside fears about high inflation to increase its programme of quantitative easing (QE).

Explaining the move, Bank governor Sir Mervyn King said that the current financial crisis was "the most serious financial crisis at least since the 1930s if not ever."

"We're creating money because there's not enough money in the economy," King told Sky News. "We're having to deal with very unusual circumstances but react calmly to this and do the right thing."

Spiffing.

[tinbin]

Basic living costs in Britain at 20-year high

Households are spending more of their post-tax income on essentials than at any time since the height of the 1990s recession when interest rates reached 14 percent. According to economists at Oriel Securities, spending this year on non-discretionary items - such as food, utilities, petrol and mortgages - is forecast to account for 67.3 percent of household disposable income. Ten years ago, spending on essentials accounted for just 56.6 percent of disposable income. The astonishing rise in the basic cost of living has come despite a sharp fall in mortgage rates, households' second-highest monthly expenditure after food, to their lowest level on record.

[Daily Telegraph Business page B3 - 10.10.11.]

[Shotoflight]

Basic living costs in Britain at 20-year high

Households are spending more of their post-tax income on essentials than at any time since the height of the 1990s recession when interest rates reached 14 percent. According to economists at Oriel Securities, spending this year on non-discretionary items - such as food, utilities, petrol and mortgages - is forecast to account for 67.3 percent of household disposable income. Ten years ago, spending on essentials accounted for just 56.6 percent of disposable income. The astonishing rise in the basic cost of living has come despite a sharp fall in mortgage rates, households' second-highest monthly expenditure after food, to their lowest level on record.

[Daily Telegraph Business page B3 - 10.10.11.]

Thanks for that - link below.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8816827/Basic-living-costs-in-Britain-at-20-year-high.html

"In launching £75bn more quantitative easing last week, the Bank of England indicated that rates are likely to remain at 0.5pc for another two years. "

Inflation is the new 'interest rates' - Except it hurts everyone, not just debtors or mortgage holders. I think, come the early months of next year, we will be party to a whole new ball game. Much to the detriment of Mr and Mrs average in NI (and elsewhere) and indeed the average house price.

"The astonishing rise in the basic cost of living has come despite a sharp fall in mortgage rates, households' second-highest monthly expenditure after food, to their lowest level on record. The average mortgage rate is 3.43pc, but the size of households' debt burden means this accounts for 17.7pc of disposable income.

By slashing interest rates to 0.5pc, the Bank of England has brought the proportion down from its recent peak of 22pc in 2008, but the current level is still no lower than in 2004, when the average mortgage rate was 5.28pc".

These 'emergency' intrest rates are the sign of a distressed economy. As rates cannot be cut (effectively) any further QE takes over. We have been warned of the possibility of more QE to come.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8816919/Martin-Weale-A-lot-of-scope-for-more-QE.html

"Martin Weale, a member of the nine-strong Monetary Policy Committee that voted for "QE2", said: "There is quite a lot of scope for further quantitative easing.

Before the purchases that we announced last week, the amount of government debt in the system was actually higher than it had been before the earlier bout, so there is quite a lot more that could be done."

The Bank has now injected £275bn into the economy, including the initial £200bn of QE, and economists say it may go as high as £500bn."

On the bright side, the January Sales should be good this year, if you can squirrell away a couple of squids.

Edited October 10, 2011 by Shotoflight

[Realistic NI EA]

I have been reading this thread since the beginning and have to admit at times I thought it was overly pessimistic and a place where people would dump bad news stories to complain how bad life was for everyone. However, as the weeks have gone on and I have been affected by the cost of basic things soaring in price I have begun to realise that for many people with more kids and a large mortgage this must be a living hell.

Me and the Mrs are not the average in NI, firstly as we only have one child and as mentioned in another thread I do not own a property after deciding not to buy at the peak although pressured to do so by my peers. Our outgoings are rent, household bills like electricity, heating, tv, sky, broadband, car costs, and finally Groceries. Our rent is significantly less than a mortgage on the same property so I can only imagine how crap life would be if we owned where we live now. What gets me is the continued increase to our food shopping bills on a weekly basis and often on things that we can't avoid buying. For example the baby formula milk that our daughter goes though one tub each week has gone from £7 two weeks ago to £9.10 last week. That's a 30% increase in one week! and an extra £100 on our shopping every year on one item. All the brands of this milk have gone up so we cant simply switch to something else and at the end of the day she has been on the same brand since birth so cant change now.

I saw on the main board a thread about how half of EAs have shut down and I was thinking that many in NI must be clinging on due to sheer stubborness. I live within my means and have some savings, and more importantly my business is still turning a small profit but I cant imagine how my competitiors are feeling when it's clear they arent selling anything therefore arent generating any income. They must have families, dependants and the same pressures as the average working person. I bet more will go to the wire over this winter and I don't expect any sympathy on this board as they should have seen the writing on the wall sooner.

[Shotoflight]

I have been reading this thread since the beginning and have to admit at times I thought it was overly pessimistic and a place where people would dump bad news stories to complain how bad life was for everyone. However, as the weeks have gone on and I have been affected by the cost of basic things soaring in price I have begun to realise that for many people with more kids and a large mortgage this must be a living hell.

Me and the Mrs are not the average in NI, firstly as we only have one child and as mentioned in another thread I do not own a property after deciding not to buy at the peak although pressured to do so by my peers. Our outgoings are rent, household bills like electricity, heating, tv, sky, broadband, car costs, and finally Groceries. Our rent is significantly less than a mortgage on the same property so I can only imagine how crap life would be if we owned where we live now. What gets me is the continued increase to our food shopping bills on a weekly basis and often on things that we can't avoid buying. For example the baby formula milk that our daughter goes though one tub each week has gone from £7 two weeks ago to £9.10 last week. That's a 30% increase in one week! and an extra £100 on our shopping every year on one item. All the brands of this milk have gone up so we cant simply switch to something else and at the end of the day she has been on the same brand since birth so cant change now.

I saw on the main board a thread about how half of EAs have shut down and I was thinking that many in NI must be clinging on due to sheer stubborness. I live within my means and have some savings, and more importantly my business is still turning a small profit but I cant imagine how my competitiors are feeling when it's clear they arent selling anything therefore arent generating any income. They must have families, dependants and the same pressures as the average working person. I bet more will go to the wire over this winter and I don't expect any sympathy on this board as they should have seen the writing on the wall sooner.

You are right, the negative stories get a bigger airing on here (by me anyway). If someone wants good news on house prices, they need to read the Express, watch Location Location Location or listen to local EAs /RICS on the radio. As many do.

One of the reasons for this thread, to my mind at any rate, is to show how out of kilter house prices in NI still are, and the servicing of associated house ownership debts/costs, compared with salaries (if you are lucky) and day to day living expenses which are usually higher in NI - see car insurance for example.

The other point is that inflation takes up the slack of any leeway most debtors and mortgagees have beniefitted from due to distressed and historic low interest rates, and indeed inflation hits more people then simply this group harder - ie someone like yourself, and many others, without the benefit of a 'reduced low interest rate' mortgage still gets hammered by inflation and rising costs.

At the other end pay freezes, part time working, reduced hours, National Insurance and pension contribution increases limit take home pay. Jobs are few and far between for the young, never mind well paid jobs, and older workers are encouraged to work till they drop - bedblocking jobs for the young - with the state pension age sliding further away. Access to debt is more difficult and borrowing against the house (MEW) frowned upon by lenders and rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

The thing is, it's getting worse and even when it does get better, which it will eventually, it will take a long time and may be too late for some.

So what does this do to the affordability of houses at current prices - I don't think I need to spell it out. (actually, sometimes you do!)

As for EAs, the one thing they don't have, from what I can see, is a shortage of properties to sell. They are just not making a very good job of doing it - because the banks won't lend (recklessley to every Tom, Dick and Harriet like the good old days). Always easier to blame someone or something else.

Price, Place, Product, Promotion. The 4 Ps of marketing (and selling).

Everything has a price. If they want to sell property, EAs should channel their energy into finding that price.

The good old days have gone.

[Shotoflight]

Financial Crisis

Families lose £2,000 to inflation and low pay

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8819254/Families-lose-2000-to-inflation-and-low-pay.html

The Institute for Fiscal Studies said the delayed impact of the recession would lead to the biggest real terms fall in average incomes for 35 years and the longest slump in family finances on record.

Typical families will suffer a sharper drop in their incomes than the poorest. It will take until at least 2015 before the typical household recovers to the levels of 2009, the study found.

This would mean that a typical couple with two children would be £2,080 worse off in 2013 in real terms than they were in 2010, as their real income falls from £30,056 per year to £27,976. The study, commissioned by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, said: “This unprecedented collapse in living standards is chiefly due to the high inflation and weak earnings growth over this period.”

Not since the mid-1970s has there been a worse three-year fall in real incomes.

The institute said the failure to recover for at least six years has never been seen since current records began in 1961. Robert Joyce, research economist at the institute, said the “big driver” behind the fall was the decline in earnings.

“You could see this as the delayed effect of the recession,”

[tinbin]

I have been reading this thread since the beginning and have to admit at times I thought it was overly pessimistic and a place where people would dump bad news stories to complain how bad life was for everyone. However, as the weeks have gone on and I have been affected by the cost of basic things soaring in price I have begun to realise that for many people with more kids and a large mortgage this must be a living hell.

Me and the Mrs are not the average in NI, firstly as we only have one child and as mentioned in another thread I do not own a property after deciding not to buy at the peak although pressured to do so by my peers. Our outgoings are rent, household bills like electricity, heating, tv, sky, broadband, car costs, and finally Groceries. Our rent is significantly less than a mortgage on the same property so I can only imagine how crap life would be if we owned where we live now. What gets me is the continued increase to our food shopping bills on a weekly basis and often on things that we can't avoid buying. For example the baby formula milk that our daughter goes though one tub each week has gone from £7 two weeks ago to £9.10 last week. That's a 30% increase in one week! and an extra £100 on our shopping every year on one item. All the brands of this milk have gone up so we cant simply switch to something else and at the end of the day she has been on the same brand since birth so cant change now.

I saw on the main board a thread about how half of EAs have shut down and I was thinking that many in NI must be clinging on due to sheer stubborness. I live within my means and have some savings, and more importantly my business is still turning a small profit but I cant imagine how my competitiors are feeling when it's clear they arent selling anything therefore arent generating any income. They must have families, dependants and the same pressures as the average working person. I bet more will go to the wire over this winter and I don't expect any sympathy on this board as they should have seen the writing on the wall sooner.

Living standards are declining. Make no mistake it about it.

EA's (for the most part) & those with a VI alike don't and wont consider this when trying to sell a house because they have never had to - and they would argue why should they, that is someone else's job. All that was required of them was to sell a house for the highest price, send the victims across to their 'in-house' whipper snapper MTG adviser who could virtually guarantee to get them a MTG by manipulating facts and figures. Job done ... Life was easy ... nevermind the consequences.

Times are changing though. The providers of the credit have tightened their belts and home loans are being assessed upon affordability. Oh dear ... now the EA's and VI's find that life isn't so easy and they don't like it. They call for more government support, more actions from local councils and less restriction from Banks to help first time buyers get onto the property ladder. What they fail to see is that its the price of houses that prevent more sales.

What is overlooked by many is that the living standards that many enjoyed over the past 20 years was fuelled by credit, not by comfortable earnings, and this was always going to have a breaking point. Many bought designer clothes, cars, holidays, fancy TV's etc etc etc ... but most put it on the credit card. Everyone got ahead of themselves and their comes a point when it has to be paid back.

I can remember an article in the BT a few years back highlighting that FTBers were paying approx 80% of their income on housing related costs. How exactly are these ppl coping now?? I would imagine that they are not. Prob robing Peter to pay Paul (using credit cards!) and praying that interest rates never, ever go up. Throw into the mix the massive increase to the cost of living and we are left with an economic timebomb for the Housing market and particularly FTBers from the last 6-10 years. I tend to focus on FTBers because for me they are the ones who have been effected the most by all of this, and this is what most ppl fail to recognise. Figures posted about percentages of income paid out on MTG's are skewed by 3/4 generations of homebuyers who didn't have to buy in the last 10 years when house prices ran away with themselves.

Recent articles from the Belfast Telegraph re cost of living.

RE Costs of childcare. Case studies are worth reading

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/woman/life/women-forced-out-of-jobs-by-rising-cost-of-childcare-16033923.html

Bigger Bills and Less Spare cash

The average family had just £80 to spend each week in June after income tax and essentials such as food and utility bills were paid, new research has shownhttp://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/bigger-bills-and-less-spare-cash-how-the-downturn-is-really-hitting-family-budgets-16031524.html

Its going to get alot worse before it gets better.