Ftb Manchester Help

[pazmush]

Hi

I'm new here and very new to all this buying houses thing.

I am in a position where I can put down a small deposit hopefully 20k and am looking at a mortgage of around 90k, as I didn't want one too high. The reason I want a house is because my rent is becoming phenomenally high and it looks like I can get a mortgage for much cheaper at the moment which in turn will let me save... (Does that sound reasonable?)

What I was wondering was whether 110k + is going to be too little to spend in/around Manchester and could anyone recommend the areas that I search in (anywhere within an hour of Manchester would be fine, even as far as Chester).

Thanks in advance

[Nomadd]

Hi

I'm new here and very new to all this buying houses thing.

I am in a position where I can put down a small deposit hopefully 20k and am looking at a mortgage of around 90k, as I didn't want one too high. The reason I want a house is because my rent is becoming phenomenally high and it looks like I can get a mortgage for much cheaper at the moment which in turn will let me save... (Does that sound reasonable?)

What I was wondering was whether 110k + is going to be too little to spend in/around Manchester and could anyone recommend the areas that I search in (anywhere within an hour of Manchester would be fine, even as far as Chester).

Thanks in advance

I'd forget South Manchester. The only "houses" in that price bracket will be Northern Moor or somewhere near Wythenshawe (Civic) Centre. And you'd need to knock at least £10k off your budget to account for a gun, helmet, body armour and a very big dog.

Had my bro-in-law point me at a mid-terrace in a very rough part of Manchester last week: yours for £130k. Couldn't believe it...until I started flicking around Rightmove and found many others on the same estate in that £110k-120k bracket. Madness.

I'd hold fire for awhile to prevent getting your fingers badly burned. I know quite a few who've bought over the last few years and are now well and truly "stuck". But hey, that's just me.

If you could push that budget up to about £150k (even if that takes a year or two), I think you'd easily be able to pick up a "do'er up'er" in a decent location. Better to be "stuck" in something - and more importantly somewhere - you like for the next 10 years than somewhere you detest.

[pazmush]

I have a fairly solid exit strategy involving my father and renting however and I wasn't planning on living there for too long to be honest. But. I still agree that I would want to be in a niceish area...

As 110k is too little could you perhaps advise on the lowest price for locations that I could start having a look at...

[Si1]

I have a fairly solid exit strategy involving my father and renting

[hirop]

I think at that price, you will be limited to 2-bed. Try Urmston, Flixton, Sale, Brooklands, Ashton upton Mersey - most of these area's, the worst you can say about them are that they are a bit boring as you pushed out to the edges - Sale for instance, you won't be in the heart of it at that price.

I searched this south manchester + 3

By the time you do that search + 5 miles, there are over 300, they can't all be shit! Bits and bobs in Wilmslow, Styal, Cheadle, Cheadle Hulme. Even inside the m60...in all honesty you won't be in the heart of what could be called an aspirational village, but you can be on the edges of it. Both Chorlton and Withington have a good amount of ex-local authority about that mark, and these are run of the mill estates - not sink estates with gangs of feral youths.

The main caution I would have is what are you going to do with it, as all these properties are the ones falling in price now, so when this market does crunch, and it will crunch, they will all suffer. Last to rise, first to fall type of thing.

[Nomadd]

I have a fairly solid exit strategy involving my father and renting however and I wasn't planning on living there for too long to be honest. But. I still agree that I would want to be in a niceish area...

As 110k is too little could you perhaps advise on the lowest price for locations that I could start having a look at...

Well, as Hirop said, there's plenty of areas. But if you don't know them, it's hard to make recommendations. I suggest renting in some of them for awhile. In your price bracket, as I said, I'd wait and stick a little more cash towards a purchase. A 25 year mortgage is a long commitment...

I just had a look at the sales data for the last 6 months for Timperley (WA15). Couple of 3 bed semi's - probably do'er,-up'ers - in decent locations (avoid south side of Shaftsbury Ave) have gone in the 130k bracket. I think you'll have a lot more choice in a couple of years time though. Areas like that, and Sale (avoid west side of Manor Ave) or Brooklands (stick to west side of Brooklands Rd) worth a look too, IMHO.

[pazmush]

I don't really know if this is the right thing to say.

But my main aim of getting into a mortgage would be to lower my "rent" for the next (but not too many) few years in order to save a few bob in savings, which I am struggling with at the moment and to maybe make a tiny bit of profit on the house, or at least get back what I put into it at the end, through a sale.

I live in manchester at the moment and know some of the areas fairly well and it wouldn't be hard for me to go about and check some of these places out.

What I guess I need to know is whether this is a dumb Idea, as the prices are just going to fall and in which case would it be a better idea to rent somewhere outside of manchester on the cheap for a bit and save up for a larger deposit that way..

Does this make any sense? I think I'm starting to confuse myself a little, its very complicated....

[Bootsox]

Could be a bit of a gamble either way. House prices in Manchester fell 4.4% YOY to July 2011 (see attached report). If history repeats itself this year, the price drop alone you will clear out about a 1/3 of your deposit (let alone buying costs).

As has been suggested, can you not rent (save) a little longer? Renting is much more flexible, bearing in mind the current job situation, sudden need to move, etc.

HPI Report

[hirop]

Prices of hum-drum property in hum-drum areas is heading (slowly) in one direction, and that direction ain't up. Tread carefully.

I have no idea what real world rents are, I rent a 1 bed dump for 350 quid and it's been that price since I moved in 3 years ago, after waking up one day in didsbury and realising paying 200 quid extra to live next door to a crepe shop is pointless when you don't eat crepes. I just searched rightmove for the cheapest flats and went and seen them all until I found one that was bearable and good for work. So no idea if renting outside manchester is cheaper.

[Si1]

after waking up one day in didsbury and realising paying 200 quid extra to live next door to a crepe shop is pointless when you don't eat crepes.

LMAO

Leeds seems similar in this respect to Manc

[Si1]

I don't really know if this is the right thing to say.

But my main aim of getting into a mortgage would be to lower my "rent" for the next (but not too many) few years in order to save a few bob in savings, which I am struggling with at the moment and to maybe make a tiny bit of profit on the house, or at least get back what I put into it at the end, through a sale.

interest rate risk, plus have you considered maintenance costs?

Does this make any sense? I think I'm starting to confuse myself a little, its very complicated....

if it is very complicated then this should be a warning sign

[jay67]

Just had a look in Stockport area on Rightmove for £110000..remarkably similar prices to Manchester terraces.Loads of houses in mediocre areas such as Edgeley,Heaton Norris,Cale Green,etc,which I wouldn't recommend(I'm in Edgeley myself.) The odd one in Great Moor,Hazel Grove,etc,which are slightly better areas.There was even one in Disley,though it was on the A6,so lots of traffic noise.If that was my budget,I'd probably go for Bredbury,or New Mills(surprisingly characterful stone houses)though you'd need a bit of local knowledge as to which were the best bits.Hyde used to be ok,too;not visited it for some time though.

[hirop]

Just had a look in Stockport area on Rightmove for £110000..remarkably similar prices to Manchester terraces.Loads of houses in mediocre areas such as Edgeley,Heaton Norris,Cale Green,etc,which I wouldn't recommend(I'm in Edgeley myself.) The odd one in Great Moor,Hazel Grove,etc,which are slightly better areas.There was even one in Disley,though it was on the A6,so lots of traffic noise.If that was my budget,I'd probably go for Bredbury,or New Mills(surprisingly characterful stone houses)though you'd need a bit of local knowledge as to which were the best bits.Hyde used to be ok,too;not visited it for some time though.

Since you live in Stockport now, whats your opinion on Offerton? Quite often houses catch my eye there, but I know nothing about the area; and Stockport seems to bring out some pretty polor opinions from posters.

[jay67]

Offerton is a large area,extending from the cheaper Town Centre end(Hall Street)to the borders of Hazel Grove.I lived at the bottom end(Athens Street)in the mid 90's,and didn't encounter any problems,but I suspect the local schools aren't very good.There's a horrendous estate in the middle of Offerton,round the Mallowdale Road area.A bit further up is the Bosden Farm Estate;a relative lived on Shearwater Road for years,and it's fine(largely owner-occupied Wimpey semis and detacheds),but you won't find any property there in your price range.A budget of £110000 will restrict you to a terraced house in Stockport; anything bigger for that amount will be in a very dodgy area.Hazel Grove is a bit built-up for my taste,though has a good Secondary School where my friends' kids went recently,and would also be in the catchment area for Marple secondary school and 6th form College,which are good.Personally,I would favour a pavement terraced in Disley(a nice village)over a chavvier area of town.I'm single and don't have kids,so I'm not an expert on schools,except what friends have told me.

[hirop]

Offerton is a large area,extending from the cheaper Town Centre end(Hall Street)to the borders of Hazel Grove.I lived at the bottom end(Athens Street)in the mid 90's,and didn't encounter any problems,but I suspect the local schools aren't very good.There's a horrendous estate in the middle of Offerton,round the Mallowdale Road area.A bit further up is the Bosden Farm Estate;a relative lived on Shearwater Road for years,and it's fine(largely owner-occupied Wimpey semis and detacheds),but you won't find any property there in your price range.A budget of £110000 will restrict you to a terraced house in Stockport; anything bigger for that amount will be in a very dodgy area.Hazel Grove is a bit built-up for my taste,though has a good Secondary School where my friends' kids went recently,and would also be in the catchment area for Marple secondary school and 6th form College,which are good.Personally,I would favour a pavement terraced in Disley(a nice village)over a chavvier area of town.I'm single and don't have kids,so I'm not an expert on schools,except what friends have told me.

cheers, i'll scope it out relative to you tips, that budget was the op's, not mine

[pazmush]

Let me clarify.

Everyone here believes that in two years time, houses in Manchester within my price range (say 120-160 K), will have dropped by up to 9%?

So I should rent and save because a house worth 150 K now will be 130 K in 2 years?

Right?

[Riedquat]

All depends upon what you want but I'm seriously thinking of moving out in the direction of Whaley Bridge, if I can work out a way of making the journey tolerable (the A6 is well-known traffic hell and I'm just a little too far from the railway for the train to be convenient). There are a handful of OK-looking places on at the £150 mark at the moment which will hopefully come down and I don't get turfed out of my present place too soon (landlord trying to sell, but I can't see it happening). Disley doesn't seem to have quite as much. Probably not a good idea if you like somewhere very lively though.

[howarden]

Let me clarify.

Everyone here believes that in two years time, houses in Manchester within my price range (say 120-160 K), will have dropped by up to 9%?

So I should rent and save because a house worth 150 K now will be 130 K in 2 years?

Right?

Roughly, yes, there are also people on here who think you'll be able to buy them for up to 20 or 30% discount to today's open market prices, 9% was a conservative estimate.

You can second guess everything, but I always ask myself 3 simple questions:

Are household incomes rising faster than inflation is eating them up?

Are mortgages going to get cheaper?

Are banksgoing to be in a position to lend people lots of money?

If the answers are no, then the mechanism for people in the future to pay more for houses than today is not there and you arguably have the mechanism for continued falls.

You might have got slightly different answers if you were looking to buy now for family or lifestyle reasons, but if you're doing it purely for economic gain and you'd have to take on lots of risks (interest rates, maintenance responsibility, capital losses, liquidity losses, fixed outgoings, etc...) for a small monthly gain.

PS - Search for Pugh and Eddisons auctions to see what landlords are paying around Greater Manchester.

[pazmush]

Thanks everyone, you've been a real help.

I think I'll go and rent on the cheap somewhere and look at a proper investment in the future when I am considering settling down or something.

Now.... Where would I want to live in the future?

[Nomadd]

Thanks everyone, you've been a real help.

I think I'll go and rent on the cheap somewhere and look at a proper investment in the future when I am considering settling down or something.

Now.... Where would I want to live in the future?

Investment? Well, I wouldn't consider either Gold or UK Housing to be that for at least the next 10 years... On the other hand, if you just simply want somewhere to live, then a house is going to be eminently more practical.

EDIT: Multiple typo's (drunk very early this weekend!)

Edited September 2, 2011 by Nomadd

[emmkay]

I thought I'd add something to the discussion for those thinking of living in New Mills or Whaley Bridge. I'm originally from New Mills but now live in Victoria Park. The drive to work in the morning (if you work in Manchester city centre) is horrible. I've tried all routes and they are all stressful and can easily take over an hour, despite being less than15 miles from the centre of town. If you are going to live there I would suggest taking the train and that is pretty expensive.

The best parts of New Mills are off St Mary's Road which is very close to New Mills Central train station (You will also get the best views from there). The town centre is not a nice place to go out if you're not into fights and gobshites but it is quite nice during the day and at least Marple is just around the corner but getting back from Manchester using public transport is impossible after 11pm.

[Terribad]

I commute from Cheshire to Manchester through Stockport every day, and even at peak traffic I find it pleasurable.

I ride past all the motorists in their debt-boxes and give a smug friendly wave

The housing situation in g manchester is interesting. the flats and terraces are getting way cheaper, whilst the semis in the nicer areas are pretty resilient.

So for FTBers things are STARTING to get interesting ... but definately wait longer imho. Its a slow motion rollercoaster, and we're at the bit where the excitement is just beginning before the plunge.

Wishful thinking? Perhaps, but as said above, I see no good reason for an INCREASE in prices, so caution says chillax and get on with life for a bit.

[Riedquat]

I thought I'd add something to the discussion for those thinking of living in New Mills or Whaley Bridge. I'm originally from New Mills but now live in Victoria Park. The drive to work in the morning (if you work in Manchester city centre) is horrible. I've tried all routes and they are all stressful and can easily take over an hour, despite being less than15 miles from the centre of town. If you are going to live there I would suggest taking the train and that is pretty expensive.

The best parts of New Mills are off St Mary's Road which is very close to New Mills Central train station (You will also get the best views from there). The town centre is not a nice place to go out if you're not into fights and gobshites but it is quite nice during the day and at least Marple is just around the corner but getting back from Manchester using public transport is impossible after 11pm.

That's why I was thinking of the train, although it is rather over-priced (of course it is, it's a train although this is to Stockport and not right in to Manchester). It's the last couple of miles from the station to work that's putting me off. Walking that will add too much every day, and I'm assuming that getting a bike on the train would be completely impossible. If bus timings happen to be spot on then that would be a decent enough option but I feel that that's a gamble.

Is driving OK if you start very early? I know the reputation of the A6 all too well (it's bad enough outside rush hour, which is the only time I've ever used it). Getting in and out of Manchester late isn't an issue for me at all as long as there's a decent pub nearby. Maybe the Hazel Grove bypass will be built someday...

Anyway, I'm not planning on moving anywhere until I have to.

[jay67]

Maybe the Hazel Grove bypass will be built someday...

People have been talking about the Hazel Grove bypass since I was a kid in the early 60's..I doubt it will ever happen now.(Ref New Mills..I've never used them personally,but there are two railway stations,which is unusual for such a small town(circa 10,000 people.)

[Riedquat]

People have been talking about the Hazel Grove bypass since I was a kid in the early 60's..I doubt it will ever happen now.(Ref New Mills..I've never used them personally,but there are two railway stations,which is unusual for such a small town(circa 10,000 people.)

Didn't it get close before being binned again a couple of years ago? It's on my list of one of those things which might happen eventually but I won't be holding my breath.

New Mills has ended up with two stations due to them being on different lines, both of which still carry a fair amount of local traffic hence the local stations not getting closed like they probably would've done if they were now major electrified long-distance routes. New Mills Central is the fancier-looking affair (nice original building as opposed to quickly-thrown-up brick box). It might've had three at one time for all I know, there's another line which joins the one through Central a bit outside town.