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richrich

Home Ownership

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I just came back from Zurich, stayed there for the long weekend.

On one of the excursion tours i took, the tour guide mentioned that only 6% of the population in Zurich owned property, and country-wide wise 33% did, the rest just rented.

Yet considering Switzerland is one of the (if not the) wealthiest and most affluent country in Europe, wtf are you suckers complaining about not being able to get on the property ladder? :lol:

Zurich is bloody expensive though, a medium Big Mac meal was ~£11! :o

Those long white veal sausages they have there are delicious! ummm... so succulent and tasty... how come i've never seen them here in England?

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Spain has highest level of Home Ownership in EU at 80%, then Italy, Ireland, UK, Belgium, Austria, France, Netherlands, Denmark, and Sweden and Germany are down the bottom at about 49% and 43% respectively.

The average home ownership across the EU is about 62%.

Only 1.3% of the land in the United Kingdom is residential land.

'They' choke the supply, with draconian planning laws, keeping house prices high, and the population in debt slavery.

And remember 'they' stole the land in the first place via various invasions, and parliamentary acts. Common Land which belonged to your ancestors by birthright. To all of us

Edited by Milton

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Oh no not this bull5hit again.

Link? [it doesnt really matter if you disagree with that statistic.]

What does matter is that:

A tiny minority exploits Britain at the expense of the rest of us.

Just 6,000 or so landowners -- mostly aristocrats, but also large institutions and the Crown -- own about two thirds of the UK. They have maintained their grip on the land right throughout the 20th century.

Just 1,252 of them own about 60% of Scotland.

[They pay no land tax. Instead the government gives them £2.3 billion a year and the EU gives them a further £2 billion. In subsidies.]

The poor are forced to subsidise the super rich.

By contrast, 57.5 million of us in the UK pay over £10 billion a year in council tax, land tax, over £550 per household.

60 million people live in 24 million "dwellings". These 24 million dwellings sit on just 7.7% of the land.

[Government Population statistics are innacurate. There are likely 80 Million people in the UK. Subsequent decades of political mismanagement, have brought more people in, and crammed them into what little space we have.]

Of these 24 million dwellings, an ever increasing percentage are owned by private landlords, because a housing bubble was purposefully inflated, and a 'debt transfer' took place. So we are having our wealth stolen to pay for the banks assets. Working for nothing. No Capital. Slaves.

The failure to re-distribute land in the UK is one of the prime factors why the UK under-performed during most of the 20th century.

As of 2001 landbanks to a value of 37 billion pounds were known to exist, with capacity to build an additional 3-4 million homes.

This reserved land is almost wholly owned by aristocrats; with none of it on the land registry.

[This land is coming out of subsidised rural estates, land held by off-shore trusts and companies, and effectively untaxed.]

Throughout the 18th century enclosures, the landowning class stole eight million acres of Common land from the people.

The thieves were mainly tyrannical Parliamentary Landlords.

When certain Commoners questioned this. The State had them horrifcally murdered, to make an example of them.

They still hide their crimes and their takings. The aristocratic landowners, through their House of Lords influence successfully conspired to take out of circulation, the 1872 Return of Owners of Land, or "Lost Doomsday Book" that documented who owns what.

This was then hidden from the public and never updated. This was the most comprehensive record of landownership ever compiled.

Shares have to be registered; but land doesn't. The Land Registry still DOES NOT KNOW who owns between 30% and 50% of land in the UK.

86 years after the creation of the Land Registry, up to 50% of the land in England is still not registered.

Landowners' wealth is a parasite on Britain. Their wealth comes not from farming, nor even from renting, but from a trickling of land onto the urban housing market.

The clearing banks and building societies stripped our industries of investment capital, then supported their clients, the landowners, by running the rigged and overpriced land market.

Less than 8% of the UK is developed. The scarcity of Land is a myth. Agriculture only accounts for 3% of the economy.

In the UK 70% of the land is owned by 1% of the population. A statistic from a Banana Republic, or a third world dictatorship.

E&OE*****

Some of these statistics are slightly outdated, for instance the council tax figures, as they come from Kevin Cahills book, published a decade ago

'Who Owns Britain'

But you get the general idea.............

Anarchy is coming to the UK. Which is why so many stolen country estates, have been flogged off to Russian billionaires recently.

Edited by Milton

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I was just reading this on the internet:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-30/grandma-bunks-with-jobless-kids-as-multigenerational-homes-surge.html

The idea that the typical "nuclear" urban/suburban family should be able to own their own home is a late 20th century western invention

There is not any particular reason why this should continue to be the case, even for such a small section of the world's population

The other option to the impending UK-house-price-crash that we all keep hoping for is that simply more and more people rent a-la Switzerland

I could see renting becoming a reality in the better parts of london, if not the whole of the UK

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I was just reading this on the internet:

http://www.bloomberg...omes-surge.html

The idea that the typical "nuclear" urban/suburban family should be able to own their own home is a late 20th century western invention

There is not any particular reason why this should continue to be the case, even for such a small section of the world's population

The other option to the impending UK-house-price-crash that we all keep hoping for is that simply more and more people rent a-la Switzerland

I could see renting becoming a reality in the better parts of london, if not the whole of the UK

people rent in Switzerland because of the tax laws, not because of some buy to let landlords HPI forever wet dream

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people rent in Switzerland because of the tax laws, not because of some buy to let landlords HPI forever wet dream

BTL exisits in the UK because of the tax laws, principally the tax deductability of loan interest from rent received (sp?), which was abolished for owner occupiers in the late 1980s I think...

touche

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...

Zurich is bloody expensive though, a medium Big Mac meal was ~£11! :o

Those long white veal sausages they have there are delicious! ummm... so succulent and tasty... how come i've never seen them here in England?

Maybe it's because they're veal? Doesn't seem to be a very big market for it here in the UK, maybe because of the animal rights angle of how & why the veal is raised.

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Oh no not this bull5hit again.

The CPRE state that 10% of the UK is "built on" - this includes roads, etc.... (can't find the link at the mo)...I wouldn't be at all surprised if around 1.5 - 2% was about right..

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Those long white veal sausages they have there are delicious! ummm... so succulent and tasty... how come i've never seen them here in England?

Are those the Swiss speciality ones made from the Stag's *****?

If so, I have a theory.

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BTL exisits in the UK because of the tax laws, principally the tax deductability of loan interest from rent received (sp?), which was abolished for owner occupiers in the late 1980s I think...

touche

except tax laws are both favourable to owner occupation AND BTL within the UK

they are specifically disfavourable to owner occupation in switzerland

the former promotes bubbles, the latter does not

your point was idiotic and clearly VI

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except tax laws are both favourable to owner occupation AND BTL within the UK

they are specifically disfavourable to owner occupation in switzerland

the former promotes bubbles, the latter does not

your point was idiotic and clearly VI

I think that the tax deductability of mortgage interest in Switzerland is quite favourable to owner occupation, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_mortgage_interest_deduction

Would you like a shovel to dig yourself a deeper hole?

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I think that the tax deductability of mortgage interest in Switzerland is quite favourable to owner occupation, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_mortgage_interest_deduction

Would you like a shovel to dig yourself a deeper hole?

I would watch it if I were you. I think you will also find that LVT in Switzerland actively discourages home ownership. Not exactly apples and apples. Did you not find it a bit strange that, in Switzerland, where you get MIRAS or similar that most people rented?

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I would watch it if I were you. I think you will also find that LVT in Switzerland actively discourages home ownership. Not exactly apples and apples. Did you not find it a bit strange that, in Switzerland, where you get MIRAS or similar that most people rented?

Having looked at it for... oh 5 mins...

You get taxed on the imputed rental value of the home you own and then get tax relief on any mortgage payments

A bit weird looking to us, but it makes perfect sense

Also houses are too expensive for most working people in the decent places in Switzerland (sound familiar?)

Mostly I'm just insulting Si1, because he called me a VI housing bull, which is about as low an insult as you can get :lol:

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I was just reading this on the internet:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-30/grandma-bunks-with-jobless-kids-as-multigenerational-homes-surge.html

The idea that the typical "nuclear" urban/suburban family should be able to own their own home is a late 20th century western invention

There is not any particular reason why this should continue to be the case, even for such a small section of the world's population

The other option to the impending UK-house-price-crash that we all keep hoping for is that simply more and more people rent a-la Switzerland

I could see renting becoming a reality in the better parts of london, if not the whole of the UK

Oh what utter, utter BULLSH!T! Tell that to all the primitive people who have been building their own family accommodation for the past 10,000 years using stone axes. You have been completely sucked in. Completely. Idiotic statements like the one highlighted above make me truly angry. Do you really believe this media spun, status quo supporting, pseudo-intellectual cr@p? :angry:

The cost of building a decent modern house (in man hours) with modern methods and power tools is tiny. Currently, one man is building a very nice house in our backyard. It will have taken him about 8 weeks when he is finished, and he isn't working all the hours god sends. Planning, and other restrictions together with liberal debt issuance etc. are what has driven the price of property out of the reach of the ordinary person. The "problem" with the mid to late mid 20th century was that the serfs got a bit uppity and started getting a bit of "equity," and that just would not do. We can't have cattle owning their own milking shed can we now?!

Edited by Tiger Woods?

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BTL exisits in the UK because of the tax laws, principally the tax deductability of loan interest from rent received (sp?), which was abolished for owner occupiers in the late 1980s I think...

touche

There is nothing special about btl tax treatment, the government tax you on an income source but you are allowed appropriate deductions such as interest costs. It is also subject to capital gains tax. Pretty much same the world over except for few odd ball countries. In aus can deduct lossess on real estate against your own income...nice.

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Only 1.3% of the land in the United Kingdom is residential land.

'They' choke the supply, with draconian planning laws, keeping house prices high, and the population in debt slavery.

Planning laws are responsible to some extent, but in other ways this is misleading.

Saying 98.7% of land is not used for housing, so we should build on it to make houses cheaper, is a bit like saying 98.7% of people who play football don't play in the Premier League, so Man Utd should sign them all up rather than pay millions for players.

Just like I would be a poor substitute for Wayne Rooney, so a large tract of uninhabitable Scottish farmland is a poor substitute for a flat in Canary Wharf or Sandbanks.

Yes more houses would definitely help in some areas, but in other areas there is just no more room to build *in the locations people want*.

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Saying 98.7% of land is not used for housing, so we should build on it

I didnt suggest that we should build on 98.7% of the land.

Edited by Milton

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Oh what utter, utter BULLSH!T! Tell that to all the primitive people who have been building their own family accommodation for the past 10,000 years using stone axes. You have been completely sucked in. Completely. Idiotic statements like the one highlighted above make me truly angry. Do you really believe this media spun, status quo supporting, pseudo-intellectual cr@p? :angry:

The cost of building a decent modern house (in man hours) with modern methods and power tools is tiny. Currently, one man is building a very nice house in our backyard. It will have taken him about 8 weeks when he is finished, and he isn't working all the hours god sends. Planning, and other restrictions together with liberal debt issuance etc. are what has driven the price of property out of the reach of the ordinary person. The "problem" with the mid to late mid 20th century was that the serfs got a bit uppity and started getting a bit of "equity," and that just would not do. We can't have cattle owning their own milking shed can we now?!

I think you'll find if you look at the history of urban UK from 18-20th centuries whole families of working class people living in a single room was pretty normal

Equally cramped accomodation and shanty towns seem to be pretty common in most the cities outside Europe/North America

I just personally think wealth is spreading around the world; this means relative and abosolute falls in living standards in the UK

I hope I'm wrong

I'm sorry you don't like to think about the possibility I might be right

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I think you'll find if you look at the history of urban UK from 18-20th centuries whole families of working class people living in a single room was pretty normal

Equally cramped accomodation and shanty towns seem to be pretty common in most the cities outside Europe/North America

I just personally think wealth is spreading around the world; this means relative and abosolute falls in living standards in the UK

I hope I'm wrong

I'm sorry you don't like to think about the possibility I might be right

I agree we are heading towards the 18th century scenario you portray. However, this is a very different position from the one in your initial post, i.e. the 20th century is an aberration. This argument is often used by the complacent or those wishing to excuse the systems that are driving people into these circumstances for no good reason. There is no physical reason why people cannot afford a good house for an average year's wages, except for all the structures that are in place to prevent it. There is plenty of land and there probably isn't a year's man hours in the construction of a house and all its constituent materials, yet people have to spend an inordinate amount of two incomes over 25 years or more (say 15 to 20 man years labour total) to pay for it.

People live in misery and squalor partly because of the control and oppression by other people, and the argument that the latter half of the 20th century was some sort of aberrant blip and that things should naturally be more like the the 18th and 19th century is both dangerous and wrong.

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I agree we are heading towards the 18th century scenario you portray. However, this is a very different position from the one in your initial post, i.e. the 20th century is an aberration. This argument is often used by the complacent or those wishing to excuse the systems that are driving people into these circumstances for no good reason. There is no physical reason why people cannot afford a good house for an average year's wages, except for all the structures that are in place to prevent it. There is plenty of land and there probably isn't a year's man hours in the construction of a house and all its constituent materials, yet people have to spend an inordinate amount of two incomes over 25 years or more (say 15 to 20 man years labour total) to pay for it.

People live in misery and squalor partly because of the control and oppression by other people, and the argument that the latter half of the 20th century was some sort of aberrant blip and that things should naturally be more like the the 18th and 19th century is both dangerous and wrong.

+1

[That is pretty much what I wanted to post, in response to Neverland's earlier comment, but couldnt be arsed....]

Edited by Milton

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I think you'll find if you look at the history of urban UK from 18-20th centuries whole families of working class people living in a single room was pretty normal

Equally cramped accomodation and shanty towns seem to be pretty common in most the cities outside Europe/North America

The 18th-20th centuries were a bit unusual as there was a little thing called the Industrial Revolution and a population explosion in the UK which is mostly finished now and likely to peter out over the next century.

Popn_England.gif

Given how fast the UK population was growing, it's not really surprising that the stock of housing couldn't keep up. Over the last 60 years this situation has been almost completely transformed, and occupancy rates are around 2.3 persons per property from well above 4 after the war. So how do we get back to your 19th century overcrowding scenario? The population of the UK doubles to 120 million? Half of the houses fall over and are not replaced?

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Mostly I'm just insulting Si1, because he called me a VI housing bull, which is about as low an insult as you can get :lol:

he he ;)

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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