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Old job;

More money, like colleagues, can live with partner, respected member of team

Stressful, limited opportunities and getting boring.

New job

Possibly more interesting and exciting, possibly learning new skills

Much less money (especially including renting another property), might not like the new job, risky future of job, less enjoyable private life due to being away from partner.

On balance, if it were my choice, I would stick with the old job. Life is for living and not dreaming about living the good life in the distant futue. You are already almost 40, and should be trying to be happy now. That means staying with partner in the same place. I wouldnt be making lots of sacrifices for a job that pays a lot less.

Maybe there is some possibility to learn some new skills at your old place? Would they agree to let you attend some courses?

Good advice .

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when i was 20 in the early 90s i was working in a factory clock in clock out 2x 15 mins tea break etc.

i was offerd a job in a band playing guitar, i phoned my dad and asked him what i should do, he was silent for 30 secs then told me to quit my job and join the band.

20 years on i am not a millionare rock star but i run my own business, work part time, have cash and im happy.

i think i understand what was going on in me dads head 20 years ago.

If you enjoy it! Go for it!

Passion will always bring success!

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Existing Job:

Try making it better....

-Find out who needs the extra work you've been given and why - it may not need doing any more, especially if people have left

-Can it be done more easily another way?

-Can you automate it?

-If not and it's dull then it' s probably easy to do - can you put it on Elance or Odesk for $50?

-If all else fails complain about the stress (if they value you) - it's a health & safety issue these days.

New Job:

-Most new businesses fail and those that don't need huge amounts of effort to get off the ground.

-Are you sure about the business model and people involved in the new venture - there are still plenty of Pirate Equity backed chancers running around with wads of cash - and if they haven't got £££ how long can they last?

-can you be involved another way e.g. part time working from home?

-If it does well you should get a decent share of the rewards for the risk and effort that will be required. You would need a cast iron contract or a decent shareholding.

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My advice would be to stick it out in a secure company, do the work you're paid to do and go home and forget about it. The grass is rarely greener elsewhere and definately not worth taking a £15k hit for.

A new company starting up in a harsh climate is very high risk, and would certainly be a shame if you found yourself redundant in a few months time having known you left something secure.

Better the devil you know my friend :)

Hmm, I did just that in the last recession and it didn't end well! I jumped from a safe job that I liked to a risky one, just for the change.

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when i was 20 in the early 90s i was working in a factory clock in clock out 2x 15 mins tea break etc.

i was offerd a job in a band playing guitar, i phoned my dad and asked him what i should do, he was silent for 30 secs then told me to quit my job and join the band.

20 years on i am not a millionare rock star but i run my own business, work part time, have cash and im happy.

i think i understand what was going on in me dads head 20 years ago.

There's always a chance that the factory is no longer operating - many have closed down in this period!

-can you be involved another way e.g. part time working from home?

Also, would it be possible to either switch to part-time working (or take a sabbatical) with your current company, on the condition you will think seriously about coming back after a year? If your contribution is that important to them, they may agree to this rather than lose you completely. You could even (depending on the viability of outsourcing work) offer to set up as a limited company and provide the services to your old company at roughly the same price, or even a little less - perhaps show your face once or twice a week, but otherwise supervise someone else to do the work, and meantime you're helping the startup to get off the ground. Hard work, but you won't be burning your bridges entirely this way. In fact, if you can pull it off, you may be able to continue operating your company whilst living in south America most of the time!

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Here’s my dilemma. Do I see the writing on the wall and leave for an exciting but risky opportunity that has arisen, initially with a one year contract elsewhere – pay £30k. Or do I stay in my secure job that earns £45k and sit this one out, despite the work problems. Advise and anecdotal experience greatly sought.

1. Stay in the £45K job whilst looking for another £45K (or similar) job.

2. Re-read your contract and job description. Do you have to do this extra workload? The company is basically asking you to do lots of free work, only you can decide whether you are going to do it.

3. Simply stop doing the extra work, meet your contractual obligations. It sounds like the company can't afford to lose any more key staff.

4. If they make you redundant, take the tax-free cash and the £30K job until you can find something better

Personally, I've done 1,3 and 4 and not been in a position to need 2. (I don't let it get that far and find 3 better).

It's a job i.e. a contract, not signing your life away for a cost-cutting company. Do what is best for you. You have no responsibility to the company other than your contractual obligations.

From the company side, there will be no loyalty towards you when it comes to £. I've seen this time and time again.

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Surely you already know what you are going to do and are looking for validation?

We don't know enough about the whole situation to advise. Having said that, I think it largely depends on whether you are actually going to emigrate in a couple of years or if this is just a bit of a fantasy. If you are going, then why join a start up you will need to leave before you see any benefit from it? And why do they want you if you're off soon anyway? Do they know? How are you going to continue to hide it if they don't?

I think if it were me and the emigration isn't going to happen I'd go for the start up, infinitely more opportunities and work variation, and work you enjoy isn't work. Also it's easier to start towards the top of a greasy pole you played a part in building than to climb someone elses from the bottom. The money you saved buys opportunity and choice, don't act as though it isn't there. Thats your cushion, here's a chance to make it count. And on the subject of risk, is it riskier to stay with a company feeling the squeeze or to join one that is expanding?

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I had a telephone interview a couple of weeks back with some big IT consultancy that were setting up a new division.

I got all this new opportunities, rise to the top, be a mover and shakers, challenging, demanding, stressful, bull, bull, bull.

I tried to interrupt them but they were on a role so I sat back and listened to his heart-attack inducing job.

Eventually they asked me whether I was interested so, basically, I told them what I thought. I told them it sounded a cr*p job and only an idiot or a really sad person would take it. I asked them if this is how they wished to spend their life.

:D I have had two face to face interviews that went just like that. Told them on both occasions that the job and targets were virtually 'un-doable', and that they would not find a candidate.

Both times I got offered the job within 24hrs

Apparently, I was the only realistic candidate :o

Declined in both cases

(although I think I could have done the jobs, the rewards for the decline in quality of life just weren't there)

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You're more likely to regret something you didn't do

When you've got a mortgage, kids, responsiblility the options to do things that you actually want to do shrink

Totally agree - renting and no kids? Follow your heart. A few quid here and there makes little difference.

I'm in a similar position but I've got a wife and two kids and the wife is at home with them. I dare not leave my well paid job for something more exciting, but my time will come. If you really hate your job the choice is obvious.

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Certain people always err on the side of caution, others will take a chance, and if it doesn't work out, they'll move on to something else....

It depends on what the job is your moving to...as I said, if its something you've always wanted to do, but decide not to do it, then an element of regret will come into it.. You need to decide whether to make that calculated risk or not, and if you dont, whether you can live with that regret...... of course money is nice, but its not the sole reason why I exist, but it is for certain people....

I think that is a very important point. However the OP is clearly not on the side of 'caution'. Quite a few investments in places many others would be cautious to put money into. Planning to move to South America in a few years ? Nah - from the info we have the OP is firmly in the 'Take a chance' brigade.

And based on this - not going for this chance will probably cause more regret than the opposite option.

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Seems really straightforward to me, you are looking to emigrate sometime in the medium term anyway. that is a strategic move for you, moving job in the meantime is purely tactical and to do so and you need to take a 30% drop in wage and that seems crazy. Are you sure you are not looking for reasons to delay the leaving of Liverpool ?.....e.g new job and career. IMHO the move is only viable if you could get a reasonable payoff from the old job.Hunker down and continue to add to your savings/emigration fund....Any career move you make now will be curtailed by a move abroad, why are you even thinking in such short terms with the bigger picture ?

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The OP is planning to relocate abroad in 2013/14. So the current, stressful job isn't for life. Relocating to another country is horrendously expensive, and the OP may well need the safety net of his savings when he gets there. Every change in job is a gamble, and it may easily go wrong. Why double the chances of things going pear shaped by adding an extra job change into the equation?

By staying in the current, more lucrative role, will you bring forward the date of your move to South America? If the new role in the start up goes awry, what impact will that have on your plans to relocate? I would suggest that you keep your eyes on the big prize, and use your enhanced earnings to bring it closer.

Good luck whatever you decide to do......

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Have you considered staying at your current job, but looking at working part time? I think employers have to offer it if asked, unless there's a very good reason not to. halving your hours would probably give you the same income as your other riskier job. working a 2/3 day week would make a big difference to your tolerance of what you're doing. plus, you might become eligible for some benefits...?

Alternatively, stick where you are, and go on the sick, claiming stress. :P

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Seems really straightforward to me, you are looking to emigrate sometime in the medium term anyway. that is a strategic move for you, moving job in the meantime is purely tactical and to do so and you need to take a 30% drop in wage and that seems crazy. Are you sure you are not looking for reasons to delay the leaving of Liverpool ?.....e.g new job and career. IMHO the move is only viable if you could get a reasonable payoff from the old job.Hunker down and continue to add to your savings/emigration fund....Any career move you make now will be curtailed by a move abroad, why are you even thinking in such short terms with the bigger picture ?

+1

If you are going to emigrate in a few years moving to a job paying 1/3 less where you have to live away from home seems really dumb

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Have you considered staying at your current job, but looking at working part time? I think employers have to offer it if asked, unless there's a very good reason not to. halving your hours would probably give you the same income as your other riskier job. working a 2/3 day week would make a big difference to your tolerance of what you're doing. plus, you might become eligible for some benefits...?

Alternatively, stick where you are, and go on the sick, claiming stress. :P

This is what I would consider. It will allow you to get a bit more distance from the job. Alternatively, take a read of the Four hour work week and see what you can do to craft your job into something a bit less crappy.

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:D I have had two face to face interviews that went just like that. Told them on both occasions that the job and targets were virtually 'un-doable', and that they would not find a candidate.

Both times I got offered the job within 24hrs

Apparently, I was the only realistic candidate :o

Declined in both cases

(although I think I could have done the jobs, the rewards for the decline in quality of life just weren't there)

Good for you. Well done.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I thought I should follow this thread up as a 'thank you' to all the valuable contributions above. I've enjoyed the discussion and worldly wise thoughts of the forum, which have helped in my thought process. I hope this helps other HPCers too - I doubt I am the only one having the fun/satisfaction taken away from their job in the current climate, and deciding whether to move elsewhere for less salary as a solution.

In short, I have decided to play safe and keep the current job, despite the increased workload and loss of job satisfaction, and turn down the 'risky' new opportunity.

My reasons:

+ A risk analysis. The risky new job is certainly risky, more than I had first calculated. It's a start-up with no particular guarentee of success, financial backing or advantage over competitors. A 1 year contract adds to the risk. The job may well be challenging, if not impossible, so I may be jumping from "out of the frying pan and into the fire", as Miko suggests in post #16. Besides, things may change in the months ahead staying put, these things are hard to predict, as several posters have said

+ Financial outlook. Living in the North West, the £15k p.a. loss in salary for changing job is too much, especially as rents here are static if not falling. It would reduce monthly savings by 2/3 and cut the potential for adding to the savings pot. The aim for Mrs DCA and I is to emigrate in few couple of years , and the extra money would make a big difference there in terms of buying a property outright or with a small mortgage .

+ Domestic arrangements. The new job would have required living away from the Mrs during the week, which is do-able (no kids) but not ideal for late 30's and again an extra prohibative cost.

However, with keeping the current job comes a change in my approach:

+ No working in the office past 6pm - extra stuff can come home if need be, or otherwise just sit in a queue. Its up to management to deal with replacing staff, or otherwise deal with the issues overwork brings

+ Aim to use the training opportunities here to develop my career optimally for employment abroad in a couple of years. My aim at this employer now is clear - to earn money for a new start abroad, and to develop better skills that are needed abroad

+ See what happens, keep a look out for opportunities within the current post or partner organisations to change role.

As a last aside, I guess choosing security over excitement marks me out as officially middle aged :(

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I thought I should follow this thread up as a 'thank you' to all the valuable contributions above. I've enjoyed the discussion and worldly wise thoughts of the forum, which have helped in my thought process. I hope this helps other HPCers too - I doubt I am the only one having the fun/satisfaction taken away from their job in the current climate, and deciding whether to move elsewhere for less salary as a solution.

In short, I have decided to play safe and keep the current job, despite the increased workload and loss of job satisfaction, and turn down the 'risky' new opportunity.

My reasons:

+ A risk analysis. The risky new job is certainly risky, more than I had first calculated. It's a start-up with no particular guarentee of success, financial backing or advantage over competitors. A 1 year contract adds to the risk. The job may well be challenging, if not impossible, so I may be jumping from "out of the frying pan and into the fire", as Miko suggests in post #16. Besides, things may change in the months ahead staying put, these things are hard to predict, as several posters have said

+ Financial outlook. Living in the North West, the £15k p.a. loss in salary for changing job is too much, especially as rents here are static if not falling. It would reduce monthly savings by 2/3 and cut the potential for adding to the savings pot. The aim for Mrs DCA and I is to emigrate in few couple of years , and the extra money would make a big difference there in terms of buying a property outright or with a small mortgage .

+ Domestic arrangements. The new job would have required living away from the Mrs during the week, which is do-able (no kids) but not ideal for late 30's and again an extra prohibative cost.

However, with keeping the current job comes a change in my approach:

+ No working in the office past 6pm - extra stuff can come home if need be, or otherwise just sit in a queue. Its up to management to deal with replacing staff, or otherwise deal with the issues overwork brings

+ Aim to use the training opportunities here to develop my career optimally for employment abroad in a couple of years. My aim at this employer now is clear - to earn money for a new start abroad, and to develop better skills that are needed abroad

+ See what happens, keep a look out for opportunities within the current post or partner organisations to change role.

As a last aside, I guess choosing security over excitement marks me out as officially middle aged :(

I got offered an IT contract yesterday by a chap who had just moved to Wales from having worked in an investment bank.

He started on all this nonsense about challenging, need to be driven, wanting the project to succeed no matter what, bull, bull, bull.

So it got to the point where he asked if I had any questions and so I asked him what kind of person he was. He looked confused.

So I told him that he was obviously career-obsessed so I wondered if he had any life other than his job. I then told him that he was walking straight to an early grave, probably before he was 50. At which point, I told him I was declining the offer as life was too short.

He looked completely stunned. Tried to talk me around but - no.

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I just got asked about an interesting job that paid OTE of double my basic (but not _that_ much more than I'm making with ) working for a small company as a Tech Ops Director.

I didn't pursue (even though I was tempted) as I've got two young children and a wife that doesn't work.

As a friend of mine put it "sounds like you're going to be phoned at 3am and called a qunt regularly".

It's hard turning down "opportunities" that might lead to riches when you're in a job that's relatively safe but unsatisfying. Still not sure if I've done the right thing. I figure this probably won't be the last opportunity.

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As a last aside, I guess choosing security over excitement marks me out as officially middle aged :(

Your post and the responses have been quite interesting. In my earlier career I had been responsible for making a lot of people redundant. I always approached my job with the mind set of never be scared of moving to another job/company, for what ever reason. This was because of the fear and stress I witnessed in the people that were about to loose theirs. They held on too long, stayed too long in one place and were scared of the outside world. This meant that if at any time, I thought my employer had the upper hand, i.e. I needed them more than they needed me, I would leave. This approach gave me a lot of confidence and control over my life both personal and professional. I wasn't seen by employers/colleagues as weak or as a sycophant and my opinions and advice were respected.

However, during 2009, I spent almost a year unemployed as I left one contract but could not get another. This was really painful, psychologically, and as a result, I am not anywhere near as confident. Through a lucky opportunity, I have secured my current role and have been holding onto it with both hands. This has meant, biting my tong, saying the "right" things, sucking up and have effectively become a eunuch. This change in my mind set and behavior has changed my relationships with my kids and the fear and stress has fed down to them as well.

I now have a chance to move to a much riskier position, not necessarily more money, but definitely better job satisfaction. So my approach is either stay where I am, unhappy, fearful and wait until one day, someone like, me comes along and fires me or screw security and take a chance and control. I know what I MUST do, as living as someone's bitch is not living. Nor is it a good role model for my children.

I know now that if things go wrong, I can still get by, feed my family and put a roof over their heads as I am prepared to do anything to survive and the UK is not the third world, (yet).

Bottom line, be careful that you don't let this decision change you as a person. Don't let the fear rule your decision making.

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IMO the probability of being p*ssed off in this other job is high. I think being unhappy in work is more common than not in recession times. I had a forced change of employer through redundancy in the last two years and was fortunate to walk straight into another job. My new employer has raised my stress levels due significantly higher workload and tainted my enjoyment. But I'd rather be employed in my profession than not.

Good luck whatever your decision. Remember work to live, not live to work!

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Some gems of wisdom here. (Well done on the decision, by the way - I think you made the right one).

TMT - really? If so, awesome!! :)

duke_of_hazzard - good post! I've got a lot of drive but at the end of the day am paid ok with little hassle. Do I WANT to work more hours under more stress for a little more dosh!? (Probably, right now anyway lol)

Rakno, awesome post. Just how I view it - you don't want to outlive your usefulness, become institutionalised etc. Always got to hop every now and then (2-4 years) to keep ahead of the game - good for getting a different slant on things, too.

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Some gems of wisdom here. (Well done on the decision, by the way - I think you made the right one).

TMT - really? If so, awesome!! :)

Yes. It is something I do more often nowadays. When they ask me if I have any questions I ask about them as individuals. They expect me to ask about the project or the company but I want to know whether they are coporate a*se-holes or not - i.e. whether they will work you into an early grave or an ITU bed.

I got offered a role today for a BIG public sector govt dept in Newport - wanted a Sharepoint person so they said, but after 30 minutes what they wanted was someone to run Sharepoint, Exchange, their entire Active Directory and also install and manage their entire Cisco infrastructure.

A few years back, in such a downturn, I would have killed myself doing that job. Now, I just tell them what I think of them.

I am going to be out on the streets soon.

:blink:

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No, you're totally right to do it. Too many employers wanting the world of people now. I'm still sort of in career mode (for the last 4 years I've religously read engineering books for hours at night!!) but now it's becoming more of a .... job. Pfft, what's the point doing all the extra time for [email protected] all return?

Found out the other day one guy at work (a right moaner) is getting time and a half to work extra... and I've been doing that for years for nothing extra!!

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No, you're totally right to do it. Too many employers wanting the world of people now. I'm still sort of in career mode (for the last 4 years I've religously read engineering books for hours at night!!) but now it's becoming more of a .... job. Pfft, what's the point doing all the extra time for [email protected] all return?

Found out the other day one guy at work (a right moaner) is getting time and a half to work extra... and I've been doing that for years for nothing extra!!

You learn well young Jedi.

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