Nationalised Bank Paying Contractors £2000 Per Day

[richrich]

Surely will make some HPC'er rage again...

http://blogs.news.sky.com/kleinman/Post:b321b915-7ad6-4f8e-8350-a3913f562082#commentContainer

[The Masked Tulip]

Surely will make some HPC'er rage again...

http://blogs.news.sky.com/kleinman/Post:b321b915-7ad6-4f8e-8350-a3913f562082#commentContainer

Makes me angry - I turned down a technical architect role in RBS about 3 weeks ago. I thought they were eager when I mentioned my day rate.

The problem with loads of organisations is that they outsource to consultancies who may pay 300 to 600 per day to an IT contractor but, by the time the consultancy and the IT recruitment agents add in their percentage, the contractor can be farmed out for 2K a day.

The contractor does not see the 2K of course.

[bobthe~]

Makes me angry - I turned down a technical architect role in RBS about 3 weeks ago. I thought they were eager when I mentioned my day rate.

The problem with loads of organisations is that they outsource to consultancies who may pay 300 to 600 per day to an IT contractor but, by the time the consultancy and the IT recruitment agents add in their percentage, the contractor can be farmed out for 2K a day.

The contractor does not see the 2K of course.

2k per day?

I wouldn't get off HPC for that pittance.

[billybong]

Surely will make some HPC'er rage again...

http://blogs.news.sky.com/kleinman/Post:b321b915-7ad6-4f8e-8350-a3913f562082#commentContainer

And I'm sure that the release by Sky etc of such "inadvertent" news is at least in part designed to foster that rage in whoever gets to read it.

Edited August 23, 2011 by billybong

[The Masked Tulip]

And I'm sure that the release by Sky etc of such "inadvertent" news is at least in part designed to foster that rage in whoever gets to read it.

How much do Sky prsenters earn?

[OnlyMe]

Misallocation of capital, the banks (public slush funded ones at that) continuing to distort every part of the economy they touch.

[Spot]

Surely will make some HPC'er rage again...

http://blogs.news.sky.com/kleinman/Post:b321b915-7ad6-4f8e-8350-a3913f562082#commentContainer

£2,000 a day? RBS If you need a great MS SQL/Oracle DBA gimme a call !

[crouch]

Makes me angry - I turned down a technical architect role in RBS about 3 weeks ago. I thought they were eager when I mentioned my day rate.

The problem with loads of organisations is that they outsource to consultancies who may pay 300 to 600 per day to an IT contractor but, by the time the consultancy and the IT recruitment agents add in their percentage, the contractor can be farmed out for 2K a day.

The contractor does not see the 2K of course.

Why does everyone assume that these are IT roles; the article doesn't mention that? It does mention HR and risk management and you don't really know what the payment was for. There's an underlying assumption that no-one can be worth £2K/day but that cannot really be right; there must be some circumstances in which £2K/ day is a bargain and if the cost benefit is clear then, why not?

[57percent]

RBS seem to have expanded rapidly since the bail out, which really surprises me.

I think the 2k/day is rare, but I know many there on 6-700/day who wouldn't get that at other banks.

I've also heard that all the contractors are advised to enter into an offshore scheme which reduces tax substantially.

... don't get me started on Hays. They're trying to take over the whole contractor market in the city, without employing anyone that knows what they're doing!

[ccc]

2k is extreme. Exactly why this news story has plucked this figure out of the thousands released.

Whu didn't they choose the hundreds and hundreds of examples that are between £200-300

I imagine the average is about 400-500 cost. This will include the agency fees. This does not however include any pension, sick, holiday, training, support, redundancy etc.. costs that have to be met for permanent employees. Most people seem to forget this.

2k per day is normal for some of the large management consultanices - however their people get nowhere near this amount. And these will be very unlikely to be through the likes of Hays anyway. Unless they are dealing with the payroll or something on behalf of RBS. Possible.

A contractor at RBS through Hays costing 2k per day ? Will be a tiny handful of people in charge of seriously stressful large programmes with possibly hundreds of people below them and tens of millions of budgets under their control.

Yes it is still crazy money - however you need to take this in context.

One thing that few permanent workers do in the banks when complaining about contractor costs (Some of it justified) is actually work out their own daily rate, including pension costs, holidays, sick pay, training, redundancy costs etc..

One such burd who knew I was on £210 a few years back used to whinge a lot. I then worked out for her that her own daily rate was in the region of £200. And if she was to be let go at least she would get 3-6 months notice and a nice big redunadance cheque to tide her over. She quickly changed her tune.

[ccc]

RBS seem to have expanded rapidly since the bail out, which really surprises me.

I think the 2k/day is rare, but I know many there on 6-700/day who wouldn't get that at other banks.

I've also heard that all the contractors are advised to enter into an offshore scheme which reduces tax substantially.

... don't get me started on Hays. They're trying to take over the whole contractor market in the city, without employing anyone that knows what they're doing!

You have been informed incorrectly. Only a tiny number do this and it has serious risks attached. The taxman is getting stuck into these as much as possible.

[fluffy666]

Of course, the staffer would not like it to happen to them would they? It is one of those things where you can say, well you do it then! (like the incessant public versus private arguments)

Actually, I think that all salaries at all companies/public institutions should be available to all. After all, how can you have a free market when you don't have price information available to all?

[ccc]

Actually, I think that all salaries at all companies/public institutions should be available to all. After all, how can you have a free market when you don't have price information available to all?

The information is not that difficult to find out. Just search for a job and you can easily work out what company for many of them.

Do you mean individuals salary or salary ranges ? If the former lots would be against it. Many don't like others knowing what they earn. Never understood this myself.

[bobthe~]

The information is not that difficult to find out. Just search for a job and you can easily work out what company for many of them.

Do you mean individuals salary or salary ranges ? If the former lots would be against it. Many don't like others knowing what they earn. Never understood this myself.

Don't forget also that releasing said information might be misused by those without the intellectual capability to analyse it correctly, or those with nefarious intent.

[ccc]

Don't forget also that releasing said information might be misused by those without the intellectual capability to analyse it correctly, or those with nefarious intent.

You mean like news stories based on tiny samples of data to make people angry.

Surprised none of the papers have picked up on this yet. You would think the Mail would be right on it.

[SHERWICK]

I'm surprised this is even news. Didn't everyone already know this has been/is going on?

[Jadoube]

The information is not that difficult to find out. Just search for a job and you can easily work out what company for many of them.

Do you mean individuals salary or salary ranges ? If the former lots would be against it. Many don't like others knowing what they earn. Never understood this myself.

True. Also employers would often be against it, fearing it might result in dissention amongst the workforce. You prefer to avoid saying 'look you're a pretty good worker but we value you much lower than your mate X' - unless its necessary.

It would also I suspect be illegal, a breach of Data Protection legislation if the info were released by the employer or obtained by somebody accessing the employers records.

However I can understand why some people don't like others to know what they earn. Is it desirable to have your current contracting rate made public?

• Does it help or hinder when negotiating a significantly higher rate for your next contract? You took that for your previous job, so you will be happy to accept the same?

• Is it desirable to have people, neighbours, friends believe you personally get the published contracting rate? Might it be a risk if local crooks get to hear of it?

• Might it prove unhelpful if you happen to be on a higher than usual rate at the same time as your divorce is going through - and the rate is assumed to be standard in all the adjudications made by the judge?

It may be many people don't have such concerns. Equally its reasonable that some do.

[fluffy666]

The information is not that difficult to find out. Just search for a job and you can easily work out what company for many of them.

Do you mean individuals salary or salary ranges ? If the former lots would be against it. Many don't like others knowing what they earn. Never understood this myself.

Individuals.

[madpenguin]

I think the earlier posts were probably correct, this is most likely a big consultancy supplying a body for whatever "specialist" task they can soak them for, not necessarily IT, in my time I've run into all kinds of people including mathematicians and the like who are salaried staff with one of the big consultancies, it's a fair bet they see much less in their pay packet.

The businessy (suited business consultant) end of companies like Accenture spring to mind

Edited August 24, 2011 by madpenguin

[ccc]

True. Also employers would often be against it, fearing it might result in dissention amongst the workforce. You prefer to avoid saying 'look you're a pretty good worker but we value you much lower than your mate X' - unless its necessary.

It would also I suspect be illegal, a breach of Data Protection legislation if the info were released by the employer or obtained by somebody accessing the employers records.

However I can understand why some people don't like others to know what they earn. Is it desirable to have your current contracting rate made public?

• Does it help or hinder when negotiating a significantly higher rate for your next contract? You took that for your previous job, so you will be happy to accept the same?
• Is it desirable to have people, neighbours, friends believe you personally get the published contracting rate? Might it be a risk if local crooks get to hear of it?
• Might it prove unhelpful if you happen to be on a higher than usual rate at the same time as your divorce is going through - and the rate is assumed to be standard in all the adjudications made by the judge?

It may be many people don't have such concerns. Equally its reasonable that some do.

Aye - some would mind and others would not. I agree it could cause serious issues for many.

I am just talkng generally about answering a question or having a discussion with someone regarding your pay. Having this all public and available to all is another matter.

As for the above

(1) Could help or hinder. A lot of agents think people make up their rates. Which they do !! In order to get more on the next one. Agents do the same though. So if you were on a great rate and it was public - the agent would know you are not taking hte mick. Then again - if we were having lthis level of visibility - I would expect to see the agents also having to be public with the % they get off the top. Swings and roundabouts.

(2) I think local crooks get enough info from cars/houses/clothes etc... I suppose they could use more info if they wanted. They can always find this stuff out if they wanted though.

(3) Could indeed. Then again the opposite may be true as well ?

Individuals.

Personally I would not mind it. Think I am in a minority though. Can you imagine the arguments on offices it could cause.

[ccc]

I think the earlier posts were probably correct, this is most likely a big consultancy supplying a body for whatever "specialist" task they can soak them for, not necessarily IT, in my time I've run into all kinds of people including mathematicians and the like who are salaried staff with one of the big consultancies, it's a fair bet they see much less in their pay packet.

The businessy (suited business consultant) end of companies like Accenture spring to mind

Management get charged at about 2k per day for these sort of 'consultants'. Basic bods working in the teams with them are still charged around 1k.

[madpenguin]

Management get charged at about 2k per day for these sort of 'consultants'. Basic bods working in the teams with them are still charged around 1k.

Yeah when I was contracting it always used to amuse me when a manger moaned about my rate which even with the agents cut was probably lower than what most of the consultancy staff were being charged at.

I remember on one project we had a contractor who specialized in VBA programming for MS office. In a particularly busy period they farmed one of his jobs out to one of the consultancy guys (straight out of Uni) to "Save him some time". The finished app didn't work, had numerous flaws and our guy ended up rewriting it from scratch, his rate around £300-400 a day with probably a 12-15% agency margin on that , consultancies rate for green Uni kid £1200 a day.

Mind you I understand he had been to a very good University

Edited August 24, 2011 by madpenguin

[garybug]

£2,000 a day? RBS If you need a great MS SQL/Oracle DBA gimme a call !

Company I work for have been looking for MS SQL DBA contractors for some months now, paying circa 450 /day. Finally got a decent one, but the others have been apalling. One recently got a place at a tier one investment bank paying silly money, and he was the most vile, mediocre chancer I've ever worked with.

Was speaking to an agent today & decent SQL DBA's are like hen's teeth, with no-one taking permie jobs as there is so much to be made if you are a good DBA.

Heard the same from an ex Unix SA colleague, who described the DBA market as 'dry'.Any DBA who cannot get work in London, must be seriously bad.

[cashinmattress]

Makes me angry - I turned down a technical architect role in RBS about 3 weeks ago. I thought they were eager when I mentioned my day rate.

The problem with loads of organisations is that they outsource to consultancies who may pay 300 to 600 per day to an IT contractor but, by the time the consultancy and the IT recruitment agents add in their percentage, the contractor can be farmed out for 2K a day.

The contractor does not see the 2K of course.

Just what the flying fvck is a "technical architect"?

Is that one of those jobs where you tell smart people what you think your boss wants?

[ccc]

Yeah when I was contracting it always used to amuse me when a manger moaned about my rate which even with the agents cut was probably lower than what most of the consultancy staff were being charged at.

I remember on one project we had a contractor who specialized in VBA programming for MS office. In a particularly busy period they farmed one of his jobs out to one of the consultancy guys (straight out of Uni) to "Save him some time". The finished app didn't work, had numerous flaws and our guy ended up rewriting it from scratch, his rate around £300-400 a day with probably a 12-15% agency margin on that , consultancies rate for green Uni kid £1200 a day.

Mind you I understand he had been to a very good University

Aye consultancy rates are the truly insane ones. Some are very good but a lot just look and sound good and not much else. Well if they can get away with it....