Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Pole

Exploited. Ignored. Depressed.

Recommended Posts

Migrating to a new country is never an easy task. And it looks like some of my fellow contrymen have underestimated it...

I know that it doesn't make sense but some of them are too proud to return home with nothing - and sometimes it ends in tears. :(

Exploited. Ignored. Depressed. Suicidal: Jersey tragedy exposes crisis (the Independent - Link)

Experts believe the lonely, isolated lives that many Poles are compelled to live in Britain are creating pressures that too often erupt in avoidable violence – largely directed against themselves – because they have been denied access to UK support services.

While Rzeszowski is accused of turning his anger on his family, more typically Poles in Britain inflict violence on themselves by committing suicide. The Polish consulate in Manchester estimates up to 30 per cent of all Polish deaths in the north of England and Wales are the result of suicides. Community workers are warning that homelessness, mental health problems, alcohol abuse and debt management problems are all rising as a result of the economic downturn.

They say that more crises will occur in Polish communities unless more is done urgently to prevent Poles being exploited by unscrupulous employers. Local and national government need to ensure that help is extended into these isolated communities, they say.

EU expansion gave Poles open access to Britain in 2004, but the now-defunct Worker Registration Scheme meant they could not call on public funds or services until they had been employed continuously for 12 months. Reconnections, a Leeds-based charity working to help destitute Poles return home, say that 63 per cent of their clients who came to the UK felt they had been exploited at some point.

"While the majority of Polish migrants who come here are successful business people," says Ewa Sadowska, head of the Polish charity Barka, "we need to look to the margins, to those who fall through the net. Poland is very much about family units, connections and communities. People need that here just as much."

For Ms Sadowska, there are "simply less services now" and "less relief support". "There are less and less services for the community," she insists. "They are faced here with such huge challenges and, too often, there are too few people to share them with."

Arkadiusz Stypulkowski, a construction worker, knows exactly what is at risk if those support systems are absent. Returning home from work last year, one night in July, he expected to find his wife asleep in their bedroom. When she was not there, he checked his nine-year-old twin children's room. When he found her hanging from the bathroom's door frame, she was already dead.

Marta Stypulkowski, 31, was a cleaner. She and her husband, like an estimated one million Polish people, took advantage of the new freedoms that Poland's accession to the EU brought, and decided to start a better life in the UK. But, for Marta, that dream was marred by poverty and isolation. It was a hopelessness that she found impossible to bear.

Monika Panasiuk, first secretary at the Polish consulate, believes problems can stem from the migration process and the fact that "the expectation is totally different from the reality" that many experience.

Milka Witkowska, project manager at the Upper Room, a support service for Eastern European migrants, agrees. "Very often, people are exploited. They have worked for free for two months sometimes ... When they come here and things don't work out the way they want, the level of stress can be too high to cope with," she says.

Figures compiled by homeless charities in London show that, last year, 25 per cent of rough sleepers were from Eastern Europe. While the Worker Registration Scheme was lifted in May this year, charities helping the most vulnerable fear this will not prove a quick fix.

"A significant proportion of our clients report feeling low, feeling hopeless – they relate that directly to their situation. Probably about 30 to 40 per cent of our clients, from Poland in particular, have more serious depression," said Keith Armitage, a support services manager.

A unpublished study from the University of Wolverhampton found that almost half the new Polish migrants they surveyed were suffering from significant levels of mental distress and were at risk of developing mental disorders. They suffered higher levels than a similar sample of the UK population, indigenous nationals, and any other migrant group.

This is not just about new migrants, either. Gera Drymer, chair of London's East European Advice Centre, said the organisation sees 3,400 clients each year – 97 per cent of whom are Poles – and that 40 per cent of its clients have lived in the UK for five to 10 years. The centre has seen "significantly increased demand" for services over the past few months.

Ms Drymer said: "People can reach a crisis point very easily and very quickly. The risks are high unless you are well-established or have means of support. Any loss of resources can tip them into crisis – many have no other support."

Adam Symanski (not his real name), 35, left his small town in the south of Poland after the building company he worked for as a sales manager closed down in 2004, four months before Poland joined the EU. He moved to London with his wife and son, and found a job as a kitchen porter, getting paid £9 an hour.

Four years later, he was on the minimum wage and separated from his wife. He tried to kill himself twice after his marriage ended. He said: "It's a different life in the UK than in Poland. The marriage broke. I was working 18 hours per day. I'd been very settled at home."

A month passed between each of Mr Symanski's suicide attempts, yet he was offered no support. "The doctors didn't speak with me about my problems. Nothing," he said.

Case study: Krystyna Wysocki, 37, interior designer

Krystyna (not her real name) came to the UK four years ago with her boyfriend. After working 15 hours a day as an interior designer in Poland, she hoped for a better standard of life for herself and her six-year-old daughter, whom she left behind in Poland with her mother. Now separated from her partner and living in a hostel for victims of domestic abuse, she says there have been times when she has considered suicide. The thought of her daughter has always stopped her

"I lived in a flat with my boyfriend. He had been violent for a long time but I didn't see it. My mother had it exactly the same, so I thought that was how it was. He broke my collarbone. After that, I couldn't get a job.

"When I left him, I became homeless. I was living with his friends, but I couldn't live in his space any more. I was completely isolated. Sometimes, when I had no choice, I would sleep on the bus. The 149 is a long bus, so it was a good place to sleep.

"In Poland, I was working. I had lots of friends and family. People had known me for 15 or 20 years. Here, I'm an alien. I'm just an immigrant. Nobody cares about you. When you stay in bed, you are dead."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a national shame, and Bulgarian and Romanian nationals are still denied access to services.

Foxconn was heavily mentioned in the media until it was pointed out the employee suicide rate was lower than the national average.

I'd make a guess that the A8 and A2 EU nationals suicide rate in England is higher than the national average, I'd also estimate a higher than national average suicide rate in the food manufacturing sector (particularly companies that supply asda), but what do they care, the HR department doesn't even know the names of their staff who have been working there for years (albeit through an agency).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the expectation is totally different from the reality

Sums it up. Not much different from the Brits who pack up to Spain/Australia/Thailand/etc expecting a garden of roses and finding they have the same problems, just in a different place. Why do people think throwing away their support network (however flimsy) will make things better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sums it up. Not much different from the Brits who pack up to Spain/Australia/Thailand/etc expecting a garden of roses and finding they have the same problems, just in a different place. Why do people think throwing away their support network (however flimsy) will make things better?

always grass greener is

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand. I read about Somalis who haven't lifted a finger since they arrived given multi million pound houses in Hampstead but immigrants from Poland are left to sleep in the streets??

And why don't they just go back home instead of ending their lives?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terribly sad. :(

Puts Saint Vince's advice to young Brits to just go and look for work in India in context too.

Still, chin up, we're all in it together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand. I read about Somalis who haven't lifted a finger since they arrived given multi million pound houses in Hampstead but immigrants from Poland are left to sleep in the streets??

And why don't they just go back home instead of ending their lives?

Other people have something Brits have lost, pride and shame.

As TV art imitating life shameless.

For example in the East it is shameful to be on JSA, it is shameful to lose ones job, it is less shameful to kill yourself. It is incredibly shameful to try kill yourself and fail.

An example is my dad's generation, they all left Southern china in the 60s, a lot of them suffered violence low pay violence, abuse, exploitation oh and violence. But to save face when they returned every CNY they would all say how their lives were great even though it was not to save face.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that since May Poles can go and work in Germany without any complications, I am surprised more currently in the UK have not taken the chance to relocate there - better job prospects, closer to family back in Poland and much cheaper housing costs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sums it up. Not much different from the Brits who pack up to Spain/Australia/Thailand/etc expecting a garden of roses and finding they have the same problems, just in a different place. Why do people think throwing away their support network (however flimsy) will make things better?

Some support networks can be harmful. My sister for example makes a lot of promises yet keeps none of them. In the long term I think she has been more harmful than helpful.

My parents being stuck in the 60s doesn't help either, they still think education = good job and career. They don't see globalisation a problem and think I'm joking about outsourcing. But then again they are typical boomers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand. I read about Somalis who haven't lifted a finger since they arrived given multi million pound houses in Hampstead but immigrants from Poland are left to sleep in the streets??

That should make you think about how representative these stories about 'Somalis' are ....

These days Hampstead has become so down-market. Every other house is occupied by feckless asylum seekers on benefits...

Soon we'll be overrun by suicidal alcoholic eastern european immigrants living 10 to a room...

Time to move out, I say ...

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some support networks can be harmful. My sister for example makes a lot of promises yet keeps none of them. In the long term I think she has been more harmful than helpful.

My parents being stuck in the 60s doesn't help either, they still think education = good job and career. They don't see globalisation a problem and think I'm joking about outsourcing. But then again they are typical boomers.

Have you considered eating your sister Ken? Just a thought for you this sunny Monday morning. :o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand. I read about Somalis who haven't lifted a finger since they arrived given multi million pound houses in Hampstead but immigrants from Poland are left to sleep in the streets??

It may be something to do with a large number of children being involved. If you are a single male, you are entitled to bugger all. (However, I am sure we will before long see many east europeans who have figured out that the benefit system is rather more generous than working in a whole range of circumstances, and will behave in accordance with what they are paid to do).

And why don't they just go back home instead of ending their lives?

They probably had a pretty good reason for leaving in the first place. At a guess, they are not interested in watching daytime TV and throwing up on Friday night like many of the indigenous unemployed, but realise there is not much else they can do with their lives given their limited means?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For example in the East it is shameful to be on JSA, it is shameful to lose ones job, it is less shameful to kill yourself. It is incredibly shameful to try kill yourself and fail.

But you're talking further east than Poland, I assume! The Orient, basically.

Most Poles I know in the UK have lots of Polish friends and live in such a Polish environment that they've barely left Poland. They work with Poles, live with Poles, socialise with Poles, and seem pretty happy. Certainly when I ask, "When are you going back?" they say, "Never," which implies a certain contentment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given that since May Poles can go and work in Germany without any complications, I am surprised more currently in the UK have not taken the chance to relocate there - better job prospects, closer to family back in Poland and much cheaper housing costs.

Do the Germans dance round them in spring too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sums it up. Not much different from the Brits who pack up to Spain/Australia/Thailand/etc expecting a garden of roses and finding they have the same problems, just in a different place. Why do people think throwing away their support network (however flimsy) will make things better?

This is the reason immigrants and minority cultures have a higher incidence of mental health problems, and another reason mass immigration should stop, for everybody involved's sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well sticking to polish communities and working in environments where only polish is spoken ais only going to increase the level of isolation, so no surprise.

What about the the dpression and suicide rates in the now unemployed poulation who have been shoved out of a prospect of a even a min wage job or had their competiive feet cut from beneath them - by the very government(s) that they vote for - regardless of the garbage politicians come up with about wanting to help the unemployed - they have stabbed them in the back, high treason - no wonder they meddled with tht partiualr peice of legislation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Poland is very much about family units, connections and communities. People need that here just as much."

Very true, but the new entrants won't have that....travelling to a foreign land is not always the 'land of milk and honey' that some of them thought it was...without the above it is even harder, only the few educated, brave and entrepreneurial will overcome the barriers....Poland is a new democracy a growing vibrant county, just as many if not more opportunities to be had closer and at home I would have thought. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The same thing happened to the Irish in the 50s and other subsequent waves of immigrants. It's is part of the risk of moving abroad, and we need to recognise that there will always be a percentage that fail to adapt to their new home. Should the home nation make sure that aspiring exiles are adequately aware of the risks? Should the host nation provide a safety net? Do we allow people to sink or swim?

If we don't provide some planned solution, spontaneous solutions can develop. The formation of ethnic ghettoes, Kilburn for the Irish, Tower Hamlets for Asians etc, is a coping mechanism for this isolation, but it in turn leads to other problems (Brixton riots etc), and it can prevent full integration. This is where the vetting process used by countries such as Canada puts the EU's freedom of movement policy to shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just had this happen about three miles from where I live:

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9209038.Police_reveal_woman_had_been_strangled/

Polish woman has gone missing. Brother found hanged in wood. Body of Polish lady discovered. Woman had been strangled.

I have worked in Poland before and I did not think it was all that bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have worked in Poland before and I did not think it was all that bad.

That's what i always say. I would never have moved anywhere (including the UK) if my main motivation had been money.

For their own good, all migrants who can't speak English shouldn't be allowed into the UK. It's only when you can speak English you can make friends with the locals, mix in, get a better job, move around the country, be free, enjoy the great British sense of humour, write on HPC :P , etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand. I read about Somalis who haven't lifted a finger since they arrived given multi million pound houses in Hampstead but immigrants from Poland are left to sleep in the streets??

And why don't they just go back home instead of ending their lives?

I dont think Poles are 'left to sleep in the streets'

They are simply to proud to claim benefits.

My dad (not a pole!) has god knows how many medical problems, his doctor implores him to go on disability, but he just wont quit working.

Somalians. Less said the better. Taking a bunch of tribal nutcases from a warzone and expecting them to magically transform into the Victorian man about town is pure idiocy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what i always say. I would never have moved anywhere (including the UK) if my main motivation had been money.

For their own good, all migrants who can't speak English shouldn't be allowed into the UK. It's only when you can speak English you can make friends with the locals, mix in, get a better job, move around the country, be free, enjoy the great British sense of humour, write on HPC :P , etc.

There are many non Spainish speaking Brits in Spain living in enclaves....lots that now are finding that they do not have the finances to support themselves are making their way back home....in harder times the Spanish are starting to employ their own...C'est la vie. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are many non Spainish speaking Brits in Spain living in enclaves....lots that now are finding that they do not have the finances to support themselves are making their way back home....in harder times the Spanish are starting to employ their own...C'est la vie. ;)

Good,Spain should be for the Spanish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good,Spain should be for the Spanish.

If they knew the language they could become Spanish very quickly. That's how it often works. It's all about the language.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.