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Blair And The Disaffected Youth

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14605459

Some twaddle from Blair.

The comments however are notably anti Labour for Beeb readers.

A couple I liked:

"Mr. Blair. May I point out that this "disaffected youth" grew up on your watch. I might expect a Conservative government to ignore the "disaffected youth" but for a Labour government to do it is doubly bad. Shame on you Mr Blair. A Labour prime minister that ignores kids born into such disadvantaged households and focuses on the city bankers is sad indeed.I think it best you just shut up."

And

"'There are deep problems in our society that have been growing for a long time: a decline in responsibility, a rise in selfishness, a growing sense that individual rights come before anything else....'

Is he talking about rioters or bankers?"

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no-one's raised the issue of just how well teachers were paid during this period - to what end? 'investment in education' ?

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Cameron's using it as an excuse to introduce some bonkers National Service Lite for the 99.999% of youngsters who didn't riot.

Blair would have used it as an excuse to bomb Iran.

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Cameron's using it as an excuse to introduce some bonkers National Service Lite for the 99.999% of youngsters who didn't riot.

Blair would have used it as an excuse to bomb Iran.

Why do we end up with such inept leaders? Who voted for these idiots? Oh... :unsure:

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Is he talking about rioters or bankers?"

They are only responding in their own inarticulate way to the materialism and consumerism they see around them. I wish people would understand the bankers a little more and condemn them a little less.

I blame society.

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no-one's raised the issue of just how well teachers were paid during this period - to what end? 'investment in education' ?

About £18k topping out at around £35k for a classroom teacher.

Is the latest thing to blame the teachers then?

A typical secondary school teacher will have a class of 30 or so pupils and see that class for about 4 hours per week per subject. Quite how in that time they are supposed to both teach them and ensure they turn out to be fine, upstanding citizens I don't know.

If you mean that the system should be changed so that there are much smaller class sizes and that teachers teach multiple subjects to the same pupils for several years in a row to offer stability in their lives then I'd agree that they could have an influence on their behaviour.

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Why do we end up with such inept leaders? Who voted for these idiots? Oh... :unsure:

funnily enough they all start talking 10x more sense when they get to the house of lords, all the old guard from either party would do a 10x better job than the leaders that stand for election. I don't know if it's due to less party politics or increased age and experience, probably both.

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no-one's raised the issue of just how well teachers were paid during this period - to what end? 'investment in education' ?

Nobody has raised it because it's irrelevant :rolleyes:

Teachers aren't responsible for teaching kids not to steal*, that's something that should come from the parents, and the wider embrace of "society". Not to mention that the problem is largely one of unmet expectations, not lack of education - a promised land of bling, designer clothing and "cribs" at the beach, versus a stark reality of no jobs, no prospects, increasing taxes and decreasing income - largely in order to pay for the mistakes of another generation.

* = I'm sure many teachers would love to teach kids about moral rights and wrongs, and how to behave, but unless it's on the curriculum, they aren't going to be allowed to teach it - targets to meet and all that ;)

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I can't give references, but I understand that studies (that chime with my impression from experience) suggest that peer groups are far more influential that parents when it comes to youth behaviour.

I can believe this when seeing parents instantly handing over their young looters to the police.

I also believe that surveys suggest that urban UK youth spends far more time with itself, away from adult company, than in other European countries.

One would think this intensifies the peer group effect.

You can add in the usual points made about family break-up and absent parents, but I think that individual parents and teachers get over-blamed in the public reactions I have heard.

Edited by mirage

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Blair's lot just threw money at the problem hoping it would go away, so not to bother them too much.....what happens when the money is reduced by cost of living inflation and claw backs ?.....the problem then raises its nasty head again. ;)

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Nobody has raised it because it's irrelevant :rolleyes:

Teachers aren't responsible for teaching kids not to steal*, that's something that should come from the parents, and the wider embrace of "society". Not to mention that the problem is largely one of unmet expectations, not lack of education - a promised land of bling, designer clothing and "cribs" at the beach, versus a stark reality of no jobs, no prospects, increasing taxes and decreasing income - largely in order to pay for the mistakes of another generation.

* = I'm sure many teachers would love to teach kids about moral rights and wrongs, and how to behave, but unless it's on the curriculum, they aren't going to be allowed to teach it - targets to meet and all that ;)

This made me larf a short while ago.

Tacked onto a major Greeny propaganda blurb in the comments section was a couple of replies from 16-17 yr olds.

They said they were glad to nearly finish school mainly because they were bored and fed up of the constant Greeny brainwashing which they didn't believe anymore - as they could read and talk through it all on the internet.

All this greeny brainwashing - unleashed during Blair/Brown eras!

There is hope yet - the hidden, dark and satanics are losing this one bigtime and even the youth see thru their crap! <_<

Edited by erranta

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This made me larf a short while ago.

Tacked onto a major Greenie Propaganda blurb in the comments section was a couple of replies from 16-17 yr olds.

They said they were glad to nearly finish school mainly because they were bored and fed up of the constant Greenie brainwashing which they didn't believe anymore - as they could read and talk through it all on the internet.

There is hope yet - the hidden, dark and satanics are losing this one bigtime and even the youth see thru their crap! <_<

I'm with you on that one! Who mentioned the "Energy Bus" visiting schools so kiddies could nag their parents into buying new light bulbs? :huh:

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I'm with you on that one! Who mentioned the "Energy Bus" visiting schools so kiddies could nag their parents into buying new light bulbs? :huh:

npower raised energy bills over £200 pounds a year and gave out 6 'free' mercury filled (green tinged light) useless, underpowered, 60w equiv. low-energy bulbs which go dimmer as they get older (within short space of time)

(Tulip Bulbs)

They have sat in the cupboard useless and unused

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npower raised energy bills over £200 pounds a year and gave out 6 'free' mercury filled (green tinged light) useless, underpowered, 60w equiv. low-energy bulbs which go dimmer as they get older (within short space of time)

(Tulip Bulbs)

They have sat in the cupboard useless and unused

Careful! You might be getting cynical? B);)

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The nanny state Labour massively expanded(eagerly supported by the Tories and Liberals), is a state where there is very little good jobs available for young people. Say there is 8 million young adults wanting opportunity in the workforce.. there is maybe good opportunity for 2 million of them, the other 6 million can go --ck themselves.

Britain's love affair with nanny statism, and its endless rules, regulations, credentials, policing... essentially wrecked the British economy. No sane capitalist would put any production in Britain when faced with a mountain of human rights legislation, environmental rules, litigation risk and so on.

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I don't know if it's due to less party politics or increased age and experience, probably both.

I think it's the absence of party political considerations. Doesn't seem to be working with Blair and Broon though, they're still talking twaddle.

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About £18k topping out at around £35k for a classroom teacher.

Is the latest thing to blame the teachers then?

A typical secondary school teacher will have a class of 30 or so pupils and see that class for about 4 hours per week per subject. Quite how in that time they are supposed to both teach them and ensure they turn out to be fine, upstanding citizens I don't know.

If you mean that the system should be changed so that there are much smaller class sizes and that teachers teach multiple subjects to the same pupils for several years in a row to offer stability in their lives then I'd agree that they could have an influence on their behaviour.

Nobody has raised it because it's irrelevant :rolleyes:

Teachers aren't responsible for teaching kids not to steal*, that's something that should come from the parents, and the wider embrace of "society". Not to mention that the problem is largely one of unmet expectations, not lack of education - a promised land of bling, designer clothing and "cribs" at the beach, versus a stark reality of no jobs, no prospects, increasing taxes and decreasing income - largely in order to pay for the mistakes of another generation.

* = I'm sure many teachers would love to teach kids about moral rights and wrongs, and how to behave, but unless it's on the curriculum, they aren't going to be allowed to teach it - targets to meet and all that ;)

I tangentially agree with both of you - the previous govt overspent - in the name of 'investment' - on education and got little in return for it, that was my concern

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One aspect of this that strikes me is that much of the rhetoric coming out of the government recently has had a decidedly aggressive edge concerning the 'benefits culture'- the main thrust of which is that those involved have become accustomed to their way of life and grown 'too comfortable' living the way they do.

In other words they have adapted too well to a lifestyle that is low income, low aspiration and short on hope for the future. And this- we are assured- is a bad thing. 'These people' need to be shaken up and forced to reassess their situation, so the rhetoric goes.

Fine- so lets say they do reassess, lets say you do shake them out of their currant adaptation to a limited and fairly hopeless lifestyle- what happens next?

Are there jobs for these people? are there places in further education for these people- or apprenticeships or anything at all?

I can see why Cameron might want to kick a wasps nest to shake the wasps out their complacency- but his surprise at being stung by the newly agitated swarm seems rather odd to me.

Before he proceeds with this plans to 'shake up' the benefits system further he might want to consider where all that newly awakened energy is going to go- because while I applaud his intention to inform these people that their lives are shite- without an alternative to offer the end result is likely to be just a bigger swarm and a badly stung government.

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One aspect of this that strikes me is that much of the rhetoric coming out of the government recently has had a decidedly aggressive edge concerning the 'benefits culture'- the main thrust of which is that those involved have become accustomed to their way of life and grown 'too comfortable' living the way they do.

In other words they have adapted too well to a lifestyle that is low income, low aspiration and short on hope for the future. And this- we are assured- is a bad thing. 'These people' need to be shaken up and forced to reassess their situation, so the rhetoric goes.

Fine- so lets say they do reassess, lets say you do shake them out of their currant adaptation to a limited and fairly hopeless lifestyle- what happens next?

Are there jobs for these people? are there places in further education for these people- or apprenticeships or anything at all?

I can see why Cameron might want to kick a wasps nest to shake the wasps out their complacency- but his surprise at being stung by the newly agitated swarm seems rather odd to me.

Before he proceeds with this plans to 'shake up' the benefits system further he might want to consider where all that newly awakened energy is going to go- because while I applaud his intention to inform these people that their lives are shite- without an alternative to offer the end result is likely to be just a bigger swarm and a badly stung government.

firstly, ideally, energy and effort creates jobs, not the other way around, inward investment is attracted, and jobs wealth and more jobs flow from that in a virtuosu feedback

of course this is not guaranteed and the government needs to create the economic environment for that to happen, as you infer there is a risk that it may not come off

for example, some parts of post industrial britain (after the decline of coal mining, steel works etc) did very well, and some did not, post 1980s; as far as I know the deciding factor was proximity to the motorway/trunk road network, as the new service and hi tech sector jobs tend to depend on this connectivity to prosper

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npower raised energy bills over £200 pounds a year and gave out 6 'free' mercury filled (green tinged light) useless, underpowered, 60w equiv. low-energy bulbs which go dimmer as they get older (within short space of time)

(Tulip Bulbs)

They have sat in the cupboard useless and unused

and they dont last as long, the carbon foot print on those bulbs are 700% more than normal bulbs.

Edited by crash2006

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and they dont last as long, the carbon foot print on those bulbs are 700% more than normal bulbs.

got a link for that?

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Cameron's using it as an excuse to introduce some bonkers National Service Lite for the 99.999% of youngsters who didn't riot.

Blair would have used it as an excuse to bomb Iran.

Well, I think that's progress of sorts.

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One aspect of this that strikes me is that much of the rhetoric coming out of the government recently has had a decidedly aggressive edge concerning the 'benefits culture'- the main thrust of which is that those involved have become accustomed to their way of life and grown 'too comfortable' living the way they do.

In other words they have adapted too well to a lifestyle that is low income, low aspiration and short on hope for the future. And this- we are assured- is a bad thing. 'These people' need to be shaken up and forced to reassess their situation, so the rhetoric goes.

Fine- so lets say they do reassess, lets say you do shake them out of their currant adaptation to a limited and fairly hopeless lifestyle- what happens next?

Are there jobs for these people? are there places in further education for these people- or apprenticeships or anything at all?

I can see why Cameron might want to kick a wasps nest to shake the wasps out their complacency- but his surprise at being stung by the newly agitated swarm seems rather odd to me.

Before he proceeds with this plans to 'shake up' the benefits system further he might want to consider where all that newly awakened energy is going to go- because while I applaud his intention to inform these people that their lives are shite- without an alternative to offer the end result is likely to be just a bigger swarm and a badly stung government.

You're making the assumption that, should this section of society suddenly find aspiration and hard work, there would still be nothing for them to do. That's patently inaccurate since they themselves would then create new economic and social activity, just as many immigrants have done.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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