longtomsilver Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026836/Jersey-stabbing-Killer-father-lost-life-savings-failed-property-deal-final-straw.html Whittled down... Polish immigrant to the UK catches property disease so this is clearly one of our high quality exports. The guy was not evil. Like Christopher Foster before him, faced with being unable to support his family he took the route that I believe is hard wired into all of us, animalistic traits that are to the benefit of the wider gene pool. edit: we'll see more of this when the HPC comes and greater numbers lose their property shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is no justification for killing your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krackersdave Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is no justification for killing your family. Not even if your surname was Hitler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is no justification for killing your family. top tip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is no justification for killing your family. That goes without saying, this shouldn't mean that we deny the root cause or it will keep happening. Same with the recent riots, it's a socioeconomic issue that we chose to ignore/dismiss as feral youths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Sacks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The guy was not evil. you sure about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorJ Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2026836/Jersey-stabbing-Killer-father-lost-life-savings-failed-property-deal-final-straw.html Whittled down... Polish immigrant to the UK catches property disease so this is clearly one of our high quality exports. The guy was not evil. Like Christopher Foster before him, faced with being unable to support his family he took the route that I believe is hard wired into all of us, animalistic traits that are to the benefit of the wider gene pool. edit: we'll see more of this when the HPC comes and greater numbers lose their property shirts. He was investing in property. Thats as evil as they come - apart from murdering children.....oh yeah he's done that too. Evil b**tard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biddyboy Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 As much as I believe in the HPC that guy had to be mentally ill to do that. The loss of their savings from bad property investments were just an additional stress to add on top of their failing relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 He was investing in property. Thats as evil as they come - apart from murdering children.....oh yeah he's done that too. Evil b**tard. The act of killing his family was evil - it was not inevitable we need to look at the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmarks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is no justification for killing your family. You appear to speak from the position of someone lucky to be going about their daily life without suffering an abnormal level of stress. This man was utterly desparate. The circumstances that led him to these terrible acts didn't suddenly appear; they had been building up for many many months if not years and he simply couldn't take it any more. The comfortable life you know can be changed catastrophically in the blink of eye - and none of it your fault. I hope to God you are never find yourself in such a position and it would be the severest test of your character if you did. You don't know what was going through man's mind. For certain he was a tortured soul. Overwhelmed by stress he couldn't carry on livng and perhaps he simply couldn't contemplate the tragic fate that might befall his loved ones for his not being there to protect them. Petrified for their wellbeing he came to the soul-destroying conclusion it was kinder to take them with him. Equally he might have considered that his wife could have won the lottery the following week and that his children might go on to discover God given talents leading them to live full and happy lives, loved by millions. He knew he would be condemned after his death but everywhere he looked there simply was no escape. He weighed up the probabilities and made his decision. I'm not justifying what he did; I'm telling you the last thing this guy needed is simplistic absolutist condemnation; above all he needed help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 That goes without saying, this shouldn't mean that we deny the root cause or it will keep happening. Same with the recent riots, it's a socioeconomic issue that we chose to ignore/dismiss as feral youths. People have always gone broke for various reasons and had marriage problems. Hardly anything new. And it was a lot worse in the past when it meant debtors' prison/workhouse/starvation. Thank heaven it rarely also entails going berserk with knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmarks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 People have always gone broke for various reasons and had marriage problems. Hardly anything new. And it was a lot worse in the past when it meant debtors' prison/workhouse/starvation. Thank heaven it rarely also entails going berserk with knives. Everyone was a great deal more religious back then and suicide would have guaranteed you to eternal damnation in Hell; that's why so few people back then (relatively speaking) committed suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 This does not excuse what he did, he sounds nutty to begin with, but it's not the first time that money problems exacerbates the already warped mental state of the Man of the House into going on a kill rampage. Who was that other mother and daughter? Did they have to be "protected"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmarks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 This does not excuse what he did, he sounds nutty to begin with, but it's not the first time that money problems exacerbates the already warped mental state of the Man of the House into going on a kill rampage. Who was that other mother and daughter? Did they have to be "protected"? Beneath contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pent Up Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You appear to speak from the position of someone lucky to be going about their daily life without suffering an abnormal level of stress. This man was utterly desparate. The circumstances that led him to these terrible acts didn't suddenly appear; they had been building up for many many months if not years and he simply couldn't take it any more. The comfortable life you know can be changed catastrophically in the blink of eye - and none of it your fault. I hope to God you are never find yourself in such a position and it would be the severest test of your character if you did. You don't know what was going through man's mind. For certain he was a tortured soul. Overwhelmed by stress he couldn't carry on livng and perhaps he simply couldn't contemplate the tragic fate that might befall his loved ones for his not being there to protect them. Petrified for their wellbeing he came to the soul-destroying conclusion it was kinder to take them with him. Equally he might have considered that his wife could have won the lottery the following week and that his children might go on to discover God given talents leading them to live full and happy lives, loved by millions. He knew he would be condemned after his death but everywhere he looked there simply was no escape. He weighed up the probabilities and made his decision. I'm not justifying what he did; I'm telling you the last thing this guy needed is simplistic absolutist condemnation; above all he needed help. I don't agree with this at all. There is no justification for doing what he did no matter what his personal or financial problems. Suicide I can understand in extreme circumstances but not brutally murdering your loved ones. There has to be some serious underlying mental issues to have the capability of doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is no justification for killing your family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pole Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You don't know what was going through man's mind. For certain he was a tortured soul. Nothing is certain at the moment in this awful case. However, the man is still alive and we might learn more about it later. At the moment, psychiatrists in Poland are excluding the possibility of a so-called 'extended suicide' (when someone foresees future problems and kills their family to 'protect them'). Some people say he was taking anabolic steroids together with anti-depressants. But again no one knows for certain. However, regardless of his mental state, what he did can't be justified in any way. His decisions might have been influenced by many independent factors, but they were ultimately his decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 There is an unwritten rule for soldiers on operations in hostile environments. If one of your own gets snatched by a flash mob embedded in a crowd then without hesitation the rest should direct all firepower at the abducted. To the layman this is considered evil, to the men on the ground it is considered am act of kindness as instant death is preferable to torture followed by beheading. You'll all have read in the papers about British soldiers being found with British bullets, blue on blue if you like but there's more to this if you pause for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Bear Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Everyone was a great deal more religious back then and suicide would have guaranteed you to eternal damnation in Hell; that's why so few people back then (relatively speaking) committed suicide. OK, but even in Victorian times, certainly after Darwin, there's evidence that quite a lot of people went through the social motions of going to church etc. even though they'd come to the conc. that it was all about as believable as Greek and Roman gods. And if I'm not mistaken a lot of desperate people did drown themselves in the Thames, just for starters. There's a lovely little line in a Trollope (mid-Victorian) novel, religious-manic host telling guest on Christmas Day that it's time to go to church. Guest, nonchalantly lighting cigar from the fire: 'It's a kind of thing I never do.' Also, Poles in general are supposed to be a lot more religious than Brits, aren't they? Plenty of Polish churches around these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Very sad indeed! Reading that article, it seems that the friend had a bust up with her other half, called the cops and then she herself was arrested for Domestic Violence against her husband. She was at the Polish couple's house because she had been banned from her marital home by the cops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Yes,this is a very sad story.....think of all those that lost their life savings investing in property deals in Spain for example, their homes bulldozed down without recourse, people will always be financially ripped off, mainly due to their own stupidity and greed....and plenty of people go through the pain of relationship breakdowns.... No excuse to kill the innocent because of your own shortcomings...what you do to yourself is a matter for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The act of killing his family was evil - it was not inevitable we need to look at the cause. most likely, he was setting the living standard for the family. ipads, big tellies, nice car, nice pad, nice meals, nice clothes. the man provision of these things will, in his mind, been his main reason for living....does everything for the family. Then it all goes wrong...the cash stops flowing....the apples of his eye dont stop asking for the ipads, the nice clothes the new cars....HE is under pressure from his creditors, his family ( to whom he probably never revealed his position as this would have been a huge loss of face) and most of all, from himself.. he cracks...all reason is gone, and when that happens, a mans reaction to a problem will be to remove it, or himself....he chose remove the problem. It is 100% understandable how DEBT is a huge potential killer....see PKrugman and the need for a war to fix the debt problam GLOBALLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmarks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I don't agree with this at all. There is no justification for doing what he did no matter what his personal or financial problems. Suicide I can understand in extreme circumstances but not brutally murdering your loved ones. There has to be some serious underlying mental issues to have the capability of doing this. I don't justify it either, but then we are sound of mind because we are lucky to be free of an abnormal degree of stress. We have a reasons to live, our futures look acceptably bright. For him he saw nothing but blackness. To understand his frame of mind you have to put yourself in his position, not your own. He made his decisions under severe stress. He had run out of options and he was running out of time. He was being pushed down an ever shrinking tunnel, he was being crushed and it was only going to get worst until the inevitable. He came to a conclusion that right-minded people find appalling. This is the point; you and I are sound-minded. He was not, the stress he was suffering severely distorted his capacity for rational thinking. Fear overwhelmed every thought. The pain he was suffering and the pain he feared they would likely suffer was unbearable. I am not just surprised that so few on this thread are capable of appreciating this man's possible frame of mind, in a sense I am disappointed too, but I guess it goes to show that despite all the whinging that goes on here most have led contented lives. Moreover, when bystanders can pass judgment so casually it goes a long was to explain why psychiatry is so underdeveloped and poorly understood among the general public relative to other areas of medicine. Try putting yourself in the position of soldiers serving in the trenches in World War One, certain that death was just a whistle blow away; try putting yourself in the position of a young woman running through deserted streets at night screaming for help while being pursued by a gang of rapists; try putting yourself in the position of an innocent man sent down for a back-to-back life sentences for a double murder he didn't commit, or a queue of gladiators waiting for the gate to open up the arena. He knew his family depended on him; without him they would both be traumatised by his suicide and they would struggle to subsist. He figured "What kind of a life would I be leaving them to?" This mas was terrified out of his mind. Have some pity. Sometimes its kinder to put a suffering animal to sleep. sometimes its kinder to let a suffering individual pass away. Twisted though it was, he figured it was kinder to spare their suffering. There is of course no telling what may have became of his family had they lived, but given the simplistic condemnatory mood of this thread I wonder how many here would have rushed to offer their help and support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chest Rockwell Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It is 100% understandable how DEBT is a huge potential killer....see PKrugman and the need for a war to fix the debt problam GLOBALLY. No mention of debt? Just that he was a mangina who p1ssed his savings up the wall in order to prove to his cheating wife that he was a "man". Also, Krugman called for an Alien invasion to fix the debt problem...he's a f*cking tw@t! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmarks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 No mention of debt? Just that he was a mangina who p1ssed his savings up the wall in order to prove to his cheating wife that he was a "man". Also, Krugman called for an Alien invasion to fix the debt problem...he's a f*cking tw@t! You simply must join the Diplomatic Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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