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Peter Schiff Taking This Piss Out Of Krugman

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http://www.youtube.com/user/SchiffReport?blend=1&ob=5#p/a/u/0/fyW-o-Pr92M

Amusing piss take of Keynsianism and misallocation.

Excellent. Nerdy sci-fi geek wants to save the world ala Asimovs "Foundation"...

More on Krugman's plan to save the world by inventing a space alien threat....

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274631/voice-mainstream-mark-steyn

"Yesterday the “Fareed Zakaria GPS” show hosted Paul Krugman of the New York Times. Professor Krugman, the Nobel Prize–winning economist, has spent the last couple of years arguing that World War Two is proof that Keynesian stimulus works. But, in our present economic crisis, he’s now decided that massive global conflagration between conventional nation states leading to tens of millions of deaths is nickel’n'diming it and we need to think big:

KRUGMAN: It’s very hard to get inflation in a depressed economy. But if you had a program of government spending plus an expansionary policy by the Fed, you could get that. So, if you think about using all of these things together, you could accomplish, you know, a great deal.

If we discovered that, you know, space aliens were planning to attack and we needed a massive buildup to counter the space alien threat and really inflation and budget deficits took secondary place to that, this slump would be over in 18 months. And then if we discovered, oops, we made a mistake, there aren’t any aliens, we’d be better –

ROGOFF: And we need Orson Welles, is what you’re saying.

KRUGMAN: No, there was a “Twilight Zone” episode like this in which scientists fake an alien threat in order to achieve world peace. Well, this time, we don’t need it, we need it in order to get some fiscal stimulus.

And, even when the lid gets blown off, the demand for “The Invasion From Planet Zongo Was An Inside Job” bumper stickers will stimulate a second economic boom!"

Looking forward to Mark Steyn's "After America", BTW

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My view of PK isn't much different from anyone else's but I think this is a little unfair. He's obviously using the "alien invasion" to illustrate his point - in an amusing way - so it might sound odd but it isn't. It's the sort of "what if" type question would have discussed when I was studying economics.

I'm currently reading his book "The Conscience of a Liberal". I expected it to be a bleeding heart rant and total rubbish; in fact it's an interesting view on how the right came to political prominence over the last thirty years.

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which planet has he been on,even the righties are lefties these days.we have lived through an era of ever bigger govt and he thinks the right has been prmoninent?.....

Have you read the book?

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My view of PK isn't much different from anyone else's but I think this is a little unfair. He's obviously using the "alien invasion" to illustrate his point - in an amusing way - so it might sound odd but it isn't. It's the sort of "what if" type question would have discussed when I was studying economics.

I'm currently reading his book "The Conscience of a Liberal". I expected it to be a bleeding heart rant and total rubbish; in fact it's an interesting view on how the right came to political prominence over the last thirty years.

just wondering why oh why anyone believes, as a matter of policy, that my great grandaddy's £1 should be worth 100 times more than my £1.....

There is only one reason...to support a financial "industry" that is too useless to really earn a penny without the help of inflation....part of which they cause as a matter of policy ( see my post on three financial products that are against you)

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Excellent! The person he describes is amongst the many idiots who thought they'd abolished boom and bust along with snow and ice! Funny how the bust and the cold weather returned towards the end of 2008 eh?

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just wondering why oh why anyone believes, as a matter of policy, that my great grandaddy's £1 should be worth 100 times more than my £1.....

There is only one reason...to support a financial "industry" that is too useless to really earn a penny without the help of inflation....part of which they cause as a matter of policy ( see my post on three financial products that are against you)

Who actually believes this - as a matter of policy?

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My view of PK isn't much different from anyone else's but I think this is a little unfair. He's obviously using the "alien invasion" to illustrate his point - in an amusing way - so it might sound odd but it isn't. It's the sort of "what if" type question would have discussed when I was studying economics.

I'm currently reading his book "The Conscience of a Liberal". I expected it to be a bleeding heart rant and total rubbish; in fact it's an interesting view on how the right came to political prominence over the last thirty years.

I think you're missing the point, he's taking the piss out of Krugmans point of view that resources should be misallocated in order to achieve a false economic boom whilst also mocking his delusions of grandure. Pure broken window in action from Krugmans stance.

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"Watch out for the aliens!"

Superb work. I've seen Krugman's name mentioned quite often in news stories and know he's a Keynesian, but I'm not that familiar with his work. But I caught the interview the other day where he proffered his alien theory. I was beyond belief then. Schiff sorts the guy out good and proper, well worth a listen.

I also watched 'Inside Job' last night. Not the 911 one, the banking one. A real eye opener, really well made and shows you just how corrupt Wall Street is and how they have completely captured the US government. Having watched it and listened to his nonsense, it's obvious that Krugman is a shill for them.

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I think you're missing the point, he's taking the piss out of Krugmans point of view that resources should be misallocated in order to achieve a false economic boom whilst also mocking his delusions of grandure. Pure broken window in action from Krugmans stance.

From a bloke who thinks everyone ought to hand their capital over to gold miners so they can hoard lumps of metal in their back gardens (which he sells to them by the way) that's a tad ironic to say the least.

How much money has Schiff (and his industry) made from flogging all this metal or telling people to hoard it I wonder? Does he have a VI do you think?

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From a bloke who thinks everyone ought to hand their capital over to gold miners so they can hoard lumps of metal in their back gardens (which he sells to them by the way) that's a tad ironic to say the least.

How much money has Schiff (and his industry) made from flogging all this metal or telling people to hoard it I wonder? Does he have a VI do you think?

I think you'll find that gold and gold golding is not misallocating capital but rather protecting it from the obvious intent of TPTB to take that capital through inflation. Comparing what I have in gold and what I have in sterling, the gold has lost no purchasing power whereas the sterling is down significantly.

In the imortal words "Protect yourselves", particularly since clowns like Krugman are listened.

Edit: Fair doo's to Crouch

Also, I didn't want this to be a gold thread, just found Schiff amusing, but as for the above, given that the other day we had the fed telling us they intend to devalue the dollar until at least 2013 and today the BoE confirming thier intent to devalue sterling along with rising unemployment and claimant count suggesting falling economic activity and a downward pressure on wages in the near future I think that Schiff pushing the metallic solid has thus far proved a rather good means of protecting capital and will continue to be so for some time.

And still TPTB don't get it, they will devalue thier currencies to try and have a HPC without nominal falls but when it comes to being unemployed and having to choose to pay the mortgage or eat I guess most will chose to eat and repos will rise/prices fall anyway. We'll be left with lower prices, capital destroyed, the currency trashed and national devts that are unpayable.

The likes of Krugman think they are smarter than thier 1930s contemporaries and will lead us all to doom, protect yourselves.

Edited by zebbedee

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I think you're missing the point, he's taking the piss out of Krugmans point of view that resources should be misallocated in order to achieve a false economic boom whilst also mocking his delusions of grandure. Pure broken window in action from Krugmans stance.

I think you're missing the point; I wasn't commenting on his argument I was commenting on his way of making it.

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From a bloke who thinks everyone ought to hand their capital over to gold miners so they can hoard lumps of metal in their back gardens (which he sells to them by the way) that's a tad ironic to say the least.

How much money has Schiff (and his industry) made from flogging all this metal or telling people to hoard it I wonder? Does he have a VI do you think?

How about a few words from his father?

http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf

It's not about hoarding gold. It's about not hoarding debt repayment tokens.

Capital investment in tools/machinery/people to do productive things is best. However, when you have a psychotic government, determined to use theft and violence to get what they want, you take shelter where you can get it.

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I think you'll find that gold and gold golding is not misallocating capital but rather protecting it from the obvious intent of TPTB to take that capital through inflation. Comparing what I have in gold and what I have in sterling, the gold has lost no purchasing power whereas the sterling is down significantly.

In the imortal words "Protect yourselves", particularly since clowns like Krugman are listened.

Edit: Fair doo's to Crouch

Also, I didn't want this to be a gold thread, just found Schiff amusing, but as for the above, given that the other day we had the fed telling us they intend to devalue the dollar until at least 2013 and today the BoE confirming thier intent to devalue sterling along with rising unemployment and claimant count suggesting falling economic activity and a downward pressure on wages in the near future I think that Schiff pushing the metallic solid has thus far proved a rather good means of protecting capital and will continue to be so for some time.

And still TPTB don't get it, they will devalue thier currencies to try and have a HPC without nominal falls but when it comes to being unemployed and having to choose to pay the mortgage or eat I guess most will chose to eat and repos will rise/prices fall anyway. We'll be left with lower prices, capital destroyed, the currency trashed and national devts that are unpayable.

The likes of Krugman think they are smarter than thier 1930s contemporaries and will lead us all to doom, protect yourselves.

To quote Hayek:

The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. To the naive mind that can conceive of order only as the product of deliberate arrangement, it may seem absurd that in complex conditions order, and adaptation to the unknown, can be achieved more effectively by decentralizing decisions and that a division of authority will actually extend the possibility of overall order. Yet that decentralization actually leads to more information being taken into account.

Wise words, IMO.

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To quote Hayek:

The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design. To the naive mind that can conceive of order only as the product of deliberate arrangement, it may seem absurd that in complex conditions order, and adaptation to the unknown, can be achieved more effectively by decentralizing decisions and that a division of authority will actually extend the possibility of overall order. Yet that decentralization actually leads to more information being taken into account.

Wise words, IMO.

Yes indeed (as Ben Elton might say).

Economists need to take more notice of work from the biological sciences such as:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origins-Order-Self-Organization-Selection-Evolution/dp/0195079515/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313580320&sr=1-1

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Amusing piss take of Keynsianism and misallocation.

Would it better to do what they did in the 1930 depression where farmers destroyed crops because they could not be sold at a profit?

The Grapes of Wrath is an interesting tale of the consequences.

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Would it better to do what they did in the 1930 depression where farmers destroyed crops because they could not be sold at a profit?

The Grapes of Wrath is an interesting tale of the consequences.

I fail to see the premice of your argument, just because in the thirties they thought they were smarter than those who came before but were wrong does not imply that today they are smarter than those of the 30s. The problems will be resolved when the interference in the free market stops, the misallocation of resources leads to bancruptcy and those who have not misallocated can buy up the capital and turn that capital to productive pursuits. After a period of price discovery that the imbalances in the economy will be swept aside and true growth can resume, not increasing gdp numbers as a result of a depreciating currency.

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I fail to see the premise of your argument, just because in the thirties they thought they were smarter than those who came before but were wrong does not imply that today they are smarter than those of the 30s. The problems will be resolved when the interference in the free market stops, the misallocation of resources leads to bancruptcy and those who have not misallocated can buy up the capital and turn that capital to productive pursuits. After a period of price discovery that the imbalances in the economy will be swept aside and true growth can resume, not increasing gdp numbers as a result of a depreciating currency.

The policy in the 1930 depression was a consequence of the austerity policy that the Austrian school of economics expounds. The withdrawal of credit and subsequent reduction in liquidity however did not lead to the Nirvana that was hoped. Banks failed and individuals savings were wiped out. Savings accounts were sold for less than the balance shown in the pass book because of the uncertainty that the bank would have the resources to allow for the balance to be withdrawn.

The hope that prices will fall to levels where bargains can be had by many is an illusion, sure the very wealthy may be able to bag a bargain or two, but most will lose everything. Without confidence economic activity stagnates into a slough of stagnation. Those with capital would hold off spending and attempt to conserve their capital. Hardly a recipe for economic growth.

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The policy in the 1930 depression was a consequence of the austerity policy that the Austrian school of economics expounds. The withdrawal of credit and subsequent reduction in liquidity however did not lead to the Nirvana that was hoped. Banks failed and individuals savings were wiped out. Savings accounts were sold for less than the balance shown in the pass book because of the uncertainty that the bank would have the resources to allow for the balance to be withdrawn.

The hope that prices will fall to levels where bargains can be had by many is an illusion, sure the very wealthy may be able to bag a bargain or two, but most will lose everything. Without confidence economic activity stagnates into a slough of stagnation. Those with capital would hold off spending and attempt to conserve their capital. Hardly a recipe for economic growth.

You need to take the whole austrian economics cycle into consideration. Not encouraging the boom/bubble in the first place is even more important than the medicine.

People shouldn't have invested their all of their savings in debt based assets (i.e. bank deposit accounts and government bonds etc). This fed the credit boom, which ultimately sowed the seeds for the bust. EDIT: Nor should other people have binged on credit from the banks to fund house purchases.

As for what can fix the problems now? Nothing can. Any route will be painful. The only decision is whether stretch it out indefinitely (feed the habit), whether to confront and purge it (cold turkey) or something in the middle (reduce the dosage and manage the side effects). Both of the latter two have merit, but the former got us into this mess and it won't fix anything.

Blowing bubbles is destructive. They are the result of malinvestment. The more they are fed/blown up, the bigger and more destructive the pop will be. This isn't surprising as all of that malinvestment needs to be unwound, before fresh investment can occur.

Edited by Traktion

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The policy in the 1930 depression was a consequence of the austerity policy that the Austrian school of economics expounds. The withdrawal of credit and subsequent reduction in liquidity however did not lead to the Nirvana that was hoped. Banks failed and individuals savings were wiped out. Savings accounts were sold for less than the balance shown in the pass book because of the uncertainty that the bank would have the resources to allow for the balance to be withdrawn.

The hope that prices will fall to levels where bargains can be had by many is an illusion, sure the very wealthy may be able to bag a bargain or two, but most will lose everything. Without confidence economic activity stagnates into a slough of stagnation. Those with capital would hold off spending and attempt to conserve their capital. Hardly a recipe for economic growth.

True, bank failures in the 30s wiped out the savings of many (is that such a bad thing? that those who chose overleveraged banks were wiped out), the lack of economic confidence is merely a reflexion of the poor state that the economy was allowed to get into both in the 30s and today with overleverage in the 30s to invest in stocks and today in property. If anything today is far worse as the majority of joes in the 30s were not involved in crashing stocks. However, the very rough path that must be crossed cannot be crossed when the state takes money from the prudent to prop up the very institutions that have malinvested in the first place. That merely sets the precident that malinvestment is rewarded. Indeed not happy with setting the stage the state is in fact coersing said institutions to be even more lax with lending than they wish to be. Encouraging excessive borrowing to prop up a bubble will only lead to a bigger bubble (perhaps housing, perhaps planetary defenses to fight a non existant foe :) ) and bust when economic fundamentals finally assert themselves.

The collapse of the 30s put in place the mechanics of America rising to world superpower, I think not a bad outcome, but only after interference in the free market had abated.

Sorry for spelin but at work.

Edited by zebbedee

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Excellent! The person he describes is amongst the many idiots who thought they'd abolished boom and bust along with snow and ice! Funny how the bust and the cold weather returned towards the end of 2008 eh?

The occult elites follow the Solar Cycles - one of them is roughly 18yrs which is what the Financial industry is run on.

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The occult elites follow the Solar Cycles - one of them is roughly 18yrs which is what the Financial industry is run on.

If that's the case, then what does the current late cycle and threat of an extended minimum mean?

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Krugman is unfortunately representative of the majority of 'mainstream' economists nowadays whose one and only goal is to achieve GDP growth, at whatever cost, and at whatever (un)intended consequences.

It doesnt matter if that growth is sustainable

It doesnt matter where that growth comes from

It doesnt matter if that growth benefits the people

It doesnt matter if that growth is actually inflation and lies about inflation

It doesnt matter if that growth is achieved by consuming future generations resources.

It doesnt matter if that growth is based on debt increasing at an exponential rate

All that matters to them is that they can say 'look, we got the economy growing again'

Personally, I dont want the economy to grow at any cost.

A few quotes i am reminded of after listening to Krugmans mad ramblings.

We have gone from a world where the economy serves us to one where we serve the economy.

James Goldsmith

Our gross national product ... if we should judge America by that - counts air pollution and cigarette advertising, and ambulances to clear our highways of carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and the jails for those who break them. It counts the destruction of our redwoods and the loss of our natural wonder in chaotic sprawl. It counts napalm and the cost of a nuclear warhead, and armored cars for police who fight riots in our streets. It counts Whitman's rifle and Speck's knife, and the television programs which glorify violence in order to sell toys to our children.

Robert F. Kennedy

And one from Krugman.

Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble.

http://blog.aynrandcenter.org/paul-krugmans-inconvenient-track-record/

Its time to outlaw the use of GDP as a measurement of 'the economy' IMO. Krugman cares only for the Bankster elite. Its that simple.

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  • 338 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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