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Wage Irrationality

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Look at this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-01/australia-boom-means-men-without-degree-earn-more-than-bernanke.html

Travis Marks, a 24-year-old with no college degree, is hitting pay dirt as Australia’s mining bonanza fuels demand for workers. Already making triple the nation’s average salary, he expects to get even richer.

“With what’s going on in the industry, there’s lots of big jobs coming up,” said Marks, who earns A$220,000 ($227,150) a year -- more than Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke’s $199,700. His job as a rigger for a company providing construction and maintenance services to the resources industry is “a really good way to get ahead as a young bloke,” he said.

I reckon Travis should be put in charge of the Fed!

Or maybe he should do a degree in the UK where he can amass GBP 50k of debts and poor job prospects?

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Crazy money, why are they paying that bearded tw@ that. His performance has been awful over the past 5 years or so. He's not worth 20c.

Completely overpaid for the results delivered for the masses.

Underpaid if you consider the rewards generated for the elites.

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Look at this: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-01/australia-boom-means-men-without-degree-earn-more-than-bernanke.html

I reckon Travis should be put in charge of the Fed!

Or maybe he should do a degree in the UK where he can amass GBP 50k of debts and poor job prospects?

It's not irrational though. There's a massive, massive demand for Australia's natural resources from China. Therefore a massive demand for workers - hence high pay.

A 'rigger' could well be a very dangerous and/or specialised job, like a deep-sea diver in the North Sea oilfields hence the high pay.

It does look a lot like a boom though. Give it 10-15 years and I bet his kids will be hard pushed to earn the same amount.

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Would be interesting to see how many hours he has to do for that. Either way - still serious money.

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It's not irrational though. There's a massive, massive demand for Australia's natural resources from China. Therefore a massive demand for workers - hence high pay.

A 'rigger' could well be a very dangerous and/or specialised job, like a deep-sea diver in the North Sea oilfields hence the high pay.

It does look a lot like a boom though. Give it 10-15 years and I bet his kids will be hard pushed to earn the same amount.

His kids will be able to live off their dad's BTL empire if things keep on going as they have been.

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Look at this: http://www.bloomberg...n-bernanke.html

I reckon Travis should be put in charge of the Fed!

Or maybe he should do a degree in the UK where he can amass GBP 50k of debts and poor job prospects?

triple the average salary...that means the average is what 70K, and how much are average houses over there?

bet its a lot more than 210K

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It's not irrational though. There's a massive, massive demand for Australia's natural resources from China. Therefore a massive demand for workers - hence high pay.

A 'rigger' could well be a very dangerous and/or specialised job, like a deep-sea diver in the North Sea oilfields hence the high pay.

It does look a lot like a boom though. Give it 10-15 years and I bet his kids will be hard pushed to earn the same amount.

I'd say he himself won't be earning it in 1 to 5 years. I hope he's putting plenty aside and not investing in australias housing bubble.

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Crazy money, why are they paying that bearded tw@ that. His performance has been awful over the past 5 years or so. He's not worth 20c.

Completely overpaid for the results delivered for the masses.

Underpaid if you consider the rewards generated for the elites.

He'll get his reward in 'consultancies' when he retires.

That;s what Greenspan did - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Greenspan#After_the_Federal_Reserve

The funny thing is that the Paulson hedge fund has made huge losses this year (something like 30%). I think they must have listened to his advice! :lol:

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It's not irrational though. There's a massive, massive demand for Australia's natural resources from China. Therefore a massive demand for workers - hence high pay.

A 'rigger' could well be a very dangerous and/or specialised job, like a deep-sea diver in the North Sea oilfields hence the high pay.

It does look a lot like a boom though. Give it 10-15 years and I bet his kids will be hard pushed to earn the same amount.

Taking two extremes to illustrate the point.

In middle east a good rigger would be paid (with overtime) about a $1k to $1.5K per month clearly much less than this individual. The difference arises because Australia has strict immigration controls effectively protecting the employment of the indigenous population whereas in the middle east labour is imported from wherever it is available at the lowest cost.

Wage arbitrage only works where governments allow it.

That's why the politician's cry of "British jobs for British workers" is such BS. You can't protect jobs if you don't have border controls.

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Taking two extremes to illustrate the point.

In middle east a good rigger would be paid (with overtime) about a $1k to $1.5K per month clearly much less than this individual. The difference arises because Australia has strict immigration controls effectively protecting the employment of the indigenous population whereas in the middle east labour is imported from wherever it is available at the lowest cost.

Wage arbitrage only works where governments allow it.

That's why the politician's cry of "British jobs for British workers" is such BS. You can't protect jobs if you don't have border controls.

Pretty much what I was thinking...

When an industry cries out for more people in whatever..... what they mean is that want to cut wages, by importing labour or outsourcing.

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I spent a while last year amongst several FIFO's over in Perth.

Shifts are generally 2 weeks on, 1 week off. The 2 weeks is working 14 days straight and 12+ hours a day. Most of them with a family don't stay together for much more than a few years, and quite a few of those without a family go on 5 day benders on the week off, leaving two days clear at the end to pass the piss test on return.

There's a lot of money involved. Some of the smarter ones are using it for something useful with it, but a lot of it is getting wasted. Either boats, bikes, cars or presents for the family to try and keep it together, followed by maintenance when it's fallen apart.

Average house price is $500,000. No-one with normal jobs can afford that. There's surprisingly little resentment though as they know they themselves wouldn't last 5 minutes out there, and haven't yet noticed how much damage is being done to the non mining sectors by trying to balance the two stage economy.

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I spent a while last year amongst several FIFO's over in Perth.

Shifts are generally 2 weeks on, 1 week off. The 2 weeks is working 14 days straight and 12+ hours a day. Most of them with a family don't stay together for much more than a few years, and quite a few of those without a family go on 5 day benders on the week off, leaving two days clear at the end to pass the piss test on return.

There's a lot of money involved. Some of the smarter ones are using it for something useful with it, but a lot of it is getting wasted. Either boats, bikes, cars or presents for the family to try and keep it together, followed by maintenance when it's fallen apart.

Average house price is $500,000. No-one with normal jobs can afford that. There's surprisingly little resentment though as they know they themselves wouldn't last 5 minutes out there, and haven't yet noticed how much damage is being done to the non mining sectors by trying to balance the two stage economy.

To be perfectly honest, the hours with that time off sound very reasonable. Most people in international professional services firms (accountants, city lawyers, consultants) do 12+ hour days but do so endlessly, often also on weekends, with a maximum of 4-5 weeks off a year if they can take it (and if they can, they're still constantly reachable by their clients, bosses and co-workers by blackberry and mobile phone). All this for more education and often less money!

Edited by newbie

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Pretty much what I was thinking...

When an industry cries out for more people in whatever..... what they mean is that want to cut wages, by importing labour or outsourcing.

the other way, is they lose customers.

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I spent a while last year amongst several FIFO's over in Perth.

Shifts are generally 2 weeks on, 1 week off. The 2 weeks is working 14 days straight and 12+ hours a day. Most of them with a family don't stay together for much more than a few years, and quite a few of those without a family go on 5 day benders on the week off, leaving two days clear at the end to pass the piss test on return.

There's a lot of money involved. Some of the smarter ones are using it for something useful with it, but a lot of it is getting wasted. Either boats, bikes, cars or presents for the family to try and keep it together, followed by maintenance when it's fallen apart.

Average house price is $500,000. No-one with normal jobs can afford that. There's surprisingly little resentment though as they know they themselves wouldn't last 5 minutes out there, and haven't yet noticed how much damage is being done to the non mining sectors by trying to balance the two stage economy.

Cheers for the info.

If this bloke is doing similar shifts - then I calculate he is earning A$73 per hour. At todays exchange rate £50 per hour. Although that doesn't really mean anything as it is Oz costs that would matter.

To put this into context I was earning A$18 per hour back in 2000 working in an office doing monkey work in Melboune. This included time and half over certain hours and double time above that. We also got free beer, pizza and taxi vouchers most Fridays. Yes - it was a Government office before anyone asks. :D

Same office monkey work I was doing back in 2000 must be paying something like A$25 or so today.

Considering this A$73 per hour to be working offshore in dangerous conditions for long periods at a time ? Yes good money - but not exactly anything to get too excited about.

These off shore people are paid this money for a reason. As jd678 says above.

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To be perfectly honest, the hours with that time off sound very reasonable. Most people in international professional services firms (accountants, city lawyers, consultants) do 12+ hour days but do so endlessly, often also on weekends, with a maximum of 4-5 weeks off a year if they can take it (and if they can, they're still constantly reachable by their clients, bosses and co-workers by blackberry and mobile phone). All this for more education and often less money!

12+ hours of meetings, conference calls, emails, powerpoint etc. is hard work but it's not proper hard work like 12+ hours down t'mine. They need the week off to physically recover, not just to have a nice holiday by the seaside.

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12+ hours of meetings, conference calls, emails, powerpoint etc. is hard work but it's not proper hard work like 12+ hours down t'mine. They need the week off to physically recover, not just to have a nice holiday by the seaside.

Sure, but people have been hospitalised doing office jobs.

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Sure, but people have been hospitalised doing office jobs.

I imagine there are far more issues with depression due to office jobs than hard labour.

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Sure, but people have been hospitalised doing office jobs.

And? Mining tends to be quite dangerous - being able to wake up in a hospital with all your limbs intact would be a bonus.

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I imagine there are far more issues with depression due to office jobs than hard labour.

Physical work is quite enjoyable. I much preferred it to office work/shirk.

You actually do something productive too. But in the UK the wages are pathetic and there is no job security.

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If these kids lived in a different country they could be on $200k+ too. They have the skills and the inclination: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8694221/CCTV-footage-shows-youths-joyriding-dumptruck-during-riots.html

They look like those little hooded dudes who captured R2D2 and C3PO in Star Wars. Perhaps they figured it was an old robot and were planning on capturing and harvesting it for scrap value.

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What a waste of your life, chasing around after money so you can buy a load more stuff. I gave up that game when I broke free of the mind control I'd been subjected to since birth.

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What a waste of your life, chasing around after money so you can buy a load more stuff. I gave up that game when I broke free of the mind control I'd been subjected to since birth.

A noble sentiment. It would be great to be free from such mind-control and not to be chasing after money. But alas (unless you inherit or win) this does not get you living in your own debt free house...

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Another place to get paid even sillier money is fort mc murry in Canada... know someone who went out there after uni 3 years ago to work in a bar and earnt about 50k+ due to silly tips, and very quickly landed a sales job earning very very silly money, he bought a wreak of a house did it up and takes 3 to 4k a month rent income from renting out the flat downstairs and renting out a couple of rooms in the main house upstairs, his life plan isto retire before the age of 30. The only downsides appear to be your raping the land, it stinks, its a 7 hour drive from civilization, and its very very cold in the winter... Still ponder about following them, but it would involve changing vocation.

http://www.streetrag...ton-slang-terms

Place is nicknamed named 'fort crack' Refers to Fort McMurray, the oil-rich city North of Edmonton. "Fort Crack" has a few connotations – the obvious ass reference, as well as a more subtle reference to the preponderance of drug and alcohol abuse in the area.

Edited by AteMoose

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Another place to get paid even sillier money is fort mc murry in Canada... know someone who went out there after uni 3 years ago to work in a bar and earnt about 50k+ due to silly tips, and very quickly landed a sales job earning very very silly money, he bought a wreak of a house did it up and takes 3 to 4k a month rent income from renting out the flat downstairs and renting out a couple of rooms in the main house upstairs, his life plan isto retire before the age of 30. The only downsides appear to be your raping the land, it stinks, its a 7 hour drive from civilization, and its very very cold in the winter... Still ponder about following them, but it would involve changing vocation.

http://www.streetrag...ton-slang-terms

Place is nicknamed named 'fort crack' Refers to Fort McMurray, the oil-rich city North of Edmonton. "Fort Crack" has a few connotations – the obvious ass reference, as well as a more subtle reference to the preponderance of drug and alcohol abuse in the area.

How did he get the general work visa?

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  • 336 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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