bomberbrown Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Also, isn't it a bit of an oxymoron terming them travellers when they're fighting to keep a permanent residence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pent Up Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 I can't form an opinion on whether they should be allowed to stay or not until I find out whether they're liable and have been paying and would continue to pay council tax. If they're not paying council tax, they can definitely sod off. Nope the illegal plots pay no council tax. Even the legal proportion of the site only 25% of plots are registered for council tax. This thread probably should be merged with the OT one as most of this is already covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2031921/Dale-Farm-eviction-Bailiffs-set-bulldoze-Europes-largest-illegal-campsite.html I'm not sure if these are the anarchists in the media 'smash stuff up' sense or genuine anarchists who can see the evils of planning permissions and abuse of property rights. TBH, if I lived closer, I'd probably go along to join the protest too. Just like the native American Indians, these people were first herded into reservations and now they're even having these few rights abused. 100 years ago, they would have had a right to settle anywhere, but now they are bound up in immoral laws, rules and regulations, with NIMBYs squealing for 'justice'. It's an interesting front line in the clash between statism and anarchism. I don't know if much will come from it, but it's interesting to read. Has a nerve been struck? EDIT: P.S. Don't worry, I don't read the wail. A neighbour told me about the article! I do - they'll all get locked up, the camp will be burned to ashes and any assaults commited on the state sides will be ignored. Oh and there wil be a raft of people who can't face the facts of their slavery squealing about "fair shares" and other illogical garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaynewcastle Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Why should they be allowed to break the law ?.. The council should have moved them along a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Sacks Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Prople like you and all the other do gooders "fighting for their rights" should not be getting involved with matters you do not understand. Matters I don't understand? I've been living illegally for 16 years. And before you ask, yes I've been paying council tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomMonger Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I can't form an opinion on whether they should be allowed to stay or not until I find out whether they're liable and have been paying and would continue to pay council tax. If they're not paying council tax, they can definitely sod off. What's your hunch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Matters I don't understand? I've been living illegally for 16 years. And before you ask, yes I've been paying council tax. There's 'illegal' and illegal though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pent Up Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Matters I don't understand? I've been living illegally for 16 years. And before you ask, yes I've been paying council tax. Do you live near Dale farm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 There's 'illegal' and illegal though. These days it's pick and mix as far as legality goes. Anyone like to identify me a plaintiff in the court case though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Sacks Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Do you live near Dale farm? Are they diesel pinching shit bags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.hpc Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 And that's the problem, free movement of people is allowed under EU law, no matter what the offences. Hence, the reason why you see criminal gangs (with previous in their home countries), popping up in Britain. This is why we are only seeing the absolute dregs from places like Poland and Slovakia appear here. The shaven headed thugs who are either convicts or failures in their own nations. They live 10 to a room and undercut English tradesmen whilst producing shoddy work and making their neighbours lives hell. The Europe experiment can go f*ck itself. :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pent Up Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Are they diesel pinching shit bags? If that was the extent of their criminal activity I'd be happy for them to stay. Heres the OT thread: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=167728&pid=3103780&st=105entry3103780 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Sacks Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 If that was the extent of their criminal activity I'd be happy for them to stay. Heres the OT thread: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=167728&pid=3103780&st=105entry3103780 Right. I've had first hand experience of their ilk - pure nasty. Try and help them and they will take you for a mug. They are no doubt laughing a Redgrave behind her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Why should they be allowed to break the law ?.. The council should have moved them along a long time ago. Why should anyone be allowed to create a law, which outlaws peaceful settlement, as they have done for 100s of years? Their way of life existed before the law in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm no fan of planning laws being used against people. Thing is I reckon the Dale farm occupants may have gone unnoticed (or at least undisturbed) if rampant criminality not become a feature of local life for those nearby. Far from the occasional lawnmower theft, when it's offences against the person people have a right to expect protection. Far from a vibrant traveller community with a cultural existence that has something to offer, most of these individuals seem to exist on more or less a base level, and I'll bet Ms Redgrave would be at the head of the queue to evict if they'd pitched up near her home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Apart from the irony of 'travellers' fighting for the right to stay put, wouldn't it be positive in the long-run to just let them stay? Otherwise we will just move the problem elsewhere and the cycle will never be broken. Where else can they go, pray tell? To another reservation? Their way of life has been systematically oppressed by the state, by the invention of arbitrary rules which has made their free movement and way of life, near impossible. Is it, "it's wrong because it's against the law" or "it's the law because it's wrong"? A bunch of VIs get together to herd tax livestock into ever smaller pens and, even on this forum (of all places!), many of the livestock cheer and whoop like it's in their interest. It's a mad world, all right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I'm not sure if these are the anarchists in the media 'smash stuff up' sense or genuine anarchists who can see the evils of planning permissions and abuse of property rights. TBH, if I lived closer, I'd probably go along to join the protest too. Just like the native American Indians, these people were first herded into reservations and now they're even having these few rights abused. 100 years ago, they would have had a right to settle anywhere, but now they are bound up in immoral laws, rules and regulations, with NIMBYs squealing for 'justice'. It's an interesting front line in the clash between statism and anarchism. I don't know if much will come from it, but it's interesting to read. Has a nerve been struck? Whilst I have zero common ground with these people, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment. There are many people who dont, who lack imagination, and cannot see further than the sham choices we are given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.hpc Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I wonder how many times Ms Redgrave had to stand in a queue and have them aggressively push their way in front of everyone before spending ages asking about the price of everything and giving the server a hard time, just waiting for someone to complain so that they can fulfill their medieval shirts off in the car park fighting ritual that they seem so obsessed with. Utter vermin, and I challenge anyone who sticks up for them to get down from their Notting Hill or Dorset coast ivory towers and live with these creatures for 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pent Up Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Where else can they go, pray tell? To another reservation? Their way of life has been systematically oppressed by the state, by the invention of arbitrary rules which has made their free movement and way of life, near impossible. Is it, "it's wrong because it's against the law" or "it's the law because it's wrong"? A bunch of VIs get together to herd tax livestock into ever smaller pens and, even on this forum (of all places!), many of the livestock cheer and whoop like it's in their interest. It's a mad world, all right! Unfortunately you, like many others, do not understand the situation. There are legal sites in the surrounding areas where they can go, there is one in Basildon in fact. Just a couple miles down the road. Many also own houses, for what purpose I don't know. One member of one the main families even bought a £200,000 house for cash just a few months before claiming legal aid to oppose the evictions. The planning issues are not in the main problem here. It's the criminal activity, violent unprovoked assaults, slave labour, robberys, intimidation to name but a few of their exploits. Let me ask you, do the rights of these people count more than the rights of the residents of the local village? Because they are living in hell since they arrived! I pretty much repeating what I've already said on the OT thread but basically unless you have experience of these peoples ways and their behaviour you do not understand the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 slave labour Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Don't worry Injin. Myself, Traktion and erranta have not placed you on ignore !!! (Of course, Traktion is a bit soft in the head and erranta is a weirdo, but we'll keep that between us... !). Oi! Stop insulting me on threads I don't know about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.hpc Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Unfortunately you, like many others, do not understand the situation. There are legal sites in the surrounding areas where they can go, there is one in Basildon in fact. Just a couple miles down the road. Many also own houses, for what purpose I don't know. One member of one the main families even bought a £200,000 house for cash just a few months before claiming legal aid to oppose the evictions. The planning issues are not in the main problem here. It's the criminal activity, violent unprovoked assaults, slave labour, robberys, intimidation to name but a few of their exploits. Let me ask you, do the rights of these people count more than the rights of the residents of the local village? Because they are living in hell since they arrived! I pretty much repeating what I've already said on the OT thread but basically unless you have experience of these peoples ways and their behaviour you do not understand the situation. Don't waste your breath mate, the do gooders don't understand it at all If these people merely did as they claimed and led an alternative, quaint peaceful but alternative lifestyle where they left others in peace, in 99% of cases the law abiding, tax paying rest of us would gladly support them and their way of life and leave them be. But what their supporters don't see from their North London bedsit is the crime and filth that they bring to every area that they infest with their presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Simple solution really. (From Wiki) Dale Farm is part of an Irish Traveller halting site on Oak Lane in Crays Hill, Essex built on a former scrap yard and housing over 1,000 people. It is the largest Irish Traveller site in the UK.[1] The site has two parts, a legal site that has planning permission and a site where the land is owned by travellers but where planning permission has been refused. This land is classified as green belt and has been developed by the traveller community despite the lack of planning permission. The unofficial portion of Dale Farm is exclusively occupied by members of the Irish Traveller community, whose cultural roots are in the town of Rathkeale, County Limerick, Ireland. Deport them to County Limerick. Edit to add... Let them shit on their own doorstep (Literally) Like the English didn't move soldiers into Ireland and kill thousands without an invite! Without getting too political, I'm sure many in the north would still like many a Brit kicked out of Ireland. So, what's the score? A few 1,000 Irish gypsies, who have done a bit of robbing and violating, vs 100,000s deaths at the hand of the state. Jeez, at least keep a bit of perspective! P.S. Disclaimer: I'm an Englishman living in NI and think the whole conflict is/was nuts. Tax livestock fighting over who should be farmer just makes no sense to me; just scrap the farm. That said, I certainly don't want to dig through the IRA's business or the conflicts in the north - I just want to give a bit of perspective here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.hpc Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Like the English didn't move soldiers into Ireland and kill thousands without an invite! Without getting too political, I'm sure many in the north would still like many a Brit kicked out of Ireland. So, what's the score? A few 1,000 Irish gypsies, who have done a bit of robbing and violating, vs 100,000s deaths at the hand of the state. Jeez, at least keep a bit of perspective! P.S. Disclaimer: I'm an Englishman living in NI and think the whole conflict is/was nuts. Tax livestock fighting over who should be farmer just makes no sense to me; just scrap the farm. That said, I certainly don't want to dig through the IRA's business or the conflicts in the north - I just want to give a bit of perspective here. This is your justification for turning a blind eye to people having their pets poisoned and pubs turned over by gangs of marauding pikeys? Try again, Che. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traktion Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Unfortunately you, like many others, do not understand the situation. There are legal sites in the surrounding areas where they can go, there is one in Basildon in fact. Just a couple miles down the road. Many also own houses, for what purpose I don't know. One member of one the main families even bought a £200,000 house for cash just a few months before claiming legal aid to oppose the evictions. The planning issues are not in the main problem here. It's the criminal activity, violent unprovoked assaults, slave labour, robberys, intimidation to name but a few of their exploits. Let me ask you, do the rights of these people count more than the rights of the residents of the local village? Because they are living in hell since they arrived! I pretty much repeating what I've already said on the OT thread but basically unless you have experience of these peoples ways and their behaviour you do not understand the situation. Why should they need planning? They own the land, so what business is it of anyone else's? The state robs us all of most of what we earn, yet here you are, cheering the tax man on! Why should they move to another reservation, just because they can't choose to stay on other land? To me, it sounds like they don't want to move, because as soon as they do, they will have had more of their liberties removed, as they would then close down at least part of the reservation where they were staying. Native American Indians didn't believe in land ownership, least of all planning permission. The state waded in, rounded them up and killed any that didn't want to be. Whose rights were abused there? P.S. I don't need to understand the minutia of the situation. The fact they are stuck there is because of the laws you are cheering on. They are a product of the society that you are supporting. Whether or not they are violent thieves or not is beside the point, no matter how much you try to focus on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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