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Rolls Royce Plant 'may Go Abroad'

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/rolls-royce-plant-may-go-abroad-2333477.html

Engine maker Rolls-Royce has come under fire after admitting it is considering building a new hi-tech facility overseas rather than in the UK.

The company told workers it is looking at the feasibility of constructing an aircraft engine testing plant in Germany or the US instead of at its UK base in Derby, the Observer reported.

It is a further blow for Derby after train maker Bombardier announced 1,400 job losses in the city following the Government's announcement that it would award a £1.4 billion contract to Germany's Siemens.

Adrian Axtell, Unite regional secretary for the East Midlands, said: "This has potentially long-term implications for Derby's manufacturing base.

"Work follows the experimental test-beds and a significant number of jobs in Derby are linked to development projects.

"Rolls-Royce, with the support of the Government, need to do everything possible to maintain its development projects in Derby in the long term."

One trade union source said the announcement hit staff "like a ton of bricks" and exacerbated concerns about the future of manufacturing in the city in the wake of the Bombardier announcement.

Mr Axtell, who represents about half of Rolls Royce's 11,000-strong workforce in the city, added: "The uncertainties arising from Rolls-Royce's plans go to show why the Government should support Bombardier when it can instead of allowing the work to go to Germany."

Rolls said its Derby plant - its centre of excellence for large engines - will continue to build and test Trent XWB engines for the new Airbus A350 aircraft due to launch in 2013.

A spokesman for the firm, which employs 39,000 people and manufactures in 20 different countries, said the company will double the number of Trent engines it produces to power the next generation of wide body planes.

He added: "Rolls-Royce is investing billions of pounds, in the UK and around the world, so that it can keep up with customer demand and fulfil its £60 billion order book.

"This will sustain jobs at Rolls-Royce as well as in the hundreds of British companies in our supply chain."

They've either already decided and this is a breaking it gently move, or they're fishing for some "government assistance". My bet is they are off, and i would guess it was due to us not being willing to put a good days work in like workers in practically every other country, our workers allergy to modernisation of any kind and our self serving / troughing union boys. Seems that has been behind the death of most of our industry and nothing has changed. We'll have to hit rock bottom before we realise we have to get off our arses and do whatever it takes, scrap the bloody unions - you either want the job or sling your hook and let someone else get on with it. That would be a major start in the right direction IMO in these times.

Edited by athom

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From union environments friends have told me about, it seems there is about 1 person working, 2 on long term disability, 2 slackers who can't be fired out of every 5 employees.

So the poor company is paying for 5 employees and getting the work of 1. And even to get that work done there is a lot of resistance.

If it was just making products for a protected British market it wouldn't matter. Brits would just pay five times as much as other nations for the same things. But in a global marketplace obviously we are priced out of competing.

In large parts of the USA there is effectively no unions.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/rolls-royce-plant-may-go-abroad-2333477.html

They've either already decided and this is a breaking it gently move, or they're fishing for some "government assistance". My bet is they are off, and i would guess it was due to us not being willing to put a good days work in like workers in practically every other country, our workers allergy to modernisation of any kind and our self serving / troughing union boys. Seems that has been behind the death of most of our industry and nothing has changed. We'll have to hit rock bottom before we realise we have to get off our arses and do whatever it takes, scrap the bloody unions - you ever want the job or sling your hook and let someone else get on with it. That would be a major start in the right direction IMO in these times.

What has this got to do with our "workers allergy to modernisation or our self serving/troughing union boys" - sounds like you have some issues..... Unions are far stronger and more influential in Germany (workers on the board etc) than in UK.

Perhaps Germany has more qualified engineers, unlike the UK where that profession has been undermined by the City Boys since the 1980's

More likely RR are fishing for assistance

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I think you're going a little far with your criticism of UK workers tbh. I think this is "fishing for some 'government assistance' " more than anything else.

My first thought when I read it.

Gives us some subsidy.

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From union environments friends have told me about, it seems there is about 1 person working, 2 on long term disability, 2 slackers who can't be fired out of every 5 employees.

So the poor company is paying for 5 employees and getting the work of 1. And even to get that work done there is a lot of resistance.

I did some factory work years ago and found people spending more effort trying to slow the process down than trying to actually produce the things, because A. they were lazy feckless losers, B. they feared they would have their targets increased if it was shown they could produce faster and/or C. they feared they would get to the end of the work and be out of a job.

So they win with C anyway

I think the best way to deal with this is go the route of John Lewis and incentivise people by making them share holders, perhaps, and i really mean perhaps, the British worker might give a shit if it was their company, otherwise i can't blame anyone for taking their factory to a place where they did.

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What has this got to do with our "workers allergy to modernisation or our self serving/troughing union boys" - sounds like you have some issues..... Unions are far stronger and more influential in Germany (workers on the board etc) than in UK.

Issues? Yes it offends me how union leaders stick their face in the trough while telling workers to strike until their company has gone bust, the workers end up on the dole and the industry has fled abroad. Aren't you offended by that? Weird.

Perhaps the issue isn't unions per se but how we do it here. Maybe in Germany they realise that losing a few jobs to modernisation today will a little down the line allow the industry to grow which will create more jobs in the long run. It's not rocket science is it.

Perhaps Germany has more qualified engineers, unlike the UK where that profession has been undermined by the City Boys since the 1980's

this is true and we're getting to the point where there will be no point increasing apprenticeships when we no longer have any industry.

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Whatever , i'd rather Rolls Royce got government cash handouts than any of the big banks.

What will they get? <5 billion? Tuppence compared to how much it cost to bail out the gamblers in the city.

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Issues? Yes it offends me how union leaders stick their face in the trough while telling workers to strike until their company has gone bust, the workers end up on the dole and the industry has fled abroad. Aren't you offended by that? Weird.

Perhaps the issue isn't unions per se but how we do it here. Maybe in Germany they realise that losing a few jobs to modernisation today will a little down the line allow the industry to grow which will create more jobs in the long run. It's not rocket science is it.

Of course, the fact that British Management tends to regard any kind of union involvement as the sign of the devil is part of the problem as well. And it's not as if 3 decades of pro-business and anti-union legislation has exactly brought us to a high-growth nirvana..

I think part of the German approach is to admit that a well-trained, long term, experienced workforce is actually an asset to the company, as opposed to considering permanent employees to be an expense to be minimised.

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Of course, the fact that British Management tends to regard any kind of union involvement as the sign of the devil is part of the problem as well. And it's not as if 3 decades of pro-business and anti-union legislation has exactly brought us to a high-growth nirvana..

I think part of the German approach is to admit that a well-trained, long term, experienced workforce is actually an asset to the company, as opposed to considering permanent employees to be an expense to be minimised.

Why involve the unions, just involve the workers.

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What has this got to do with our "workers allergy to modernisation or our self serving/troughing union boys" - sounds like you have some issues..... Unions are far stronger and more influential in Germany (workers on the board etc) than in UK.

Perhaps Germany has more qualified engineers, unlike the UK where that profession has been undermined by the City Boys since the 1980's

More likely RR are fishing for assistance

It was a total Masonic/Occult post! Look at the 11's in the time stamp!

UNION Leader name = A.A prominent = Scottish Masons (Ancient and Accepted)

It's a vile attack by the fascist masonary brotherhood to belittle the ordinary prole - cos they despise you!

There is nothing wrong with unions (when masonic 'sleepers' are not destroying them from within) or the people who work for them - it is sheer greed and the policy of Big Business run by the Masons/illuminati to destroy the UK!

28 July 2011 Last updated at 09:39

Rolls-Royce profits up as engine sales rise

Related Stories

Aircraft engine maker Rolls-Royce has reported an increase in profits due to a rise in commercial engine sales.

Underlying profits before tax rose 28% in the first half of this year to £595m, which was better than analysts had predicted.

Revenues from sales on engines for civil aircraft increased 14% and Rolls Royce announced £8.7bn of new orders.

It brings its total order book to £61.4bn - an all time high for the world's second largest engine maker.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...business-14321988

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http://www.independe...ad-2333477.html

They've either already decided and this is a breaking it gently move, or they're fishing for some "government assistance". My bet is they are off, and i would guess it was due to us not being willing to put a good days work in like workers in practically every other country, our workers allergy to modernisation of any kind and our self serving / troughing union boys. Seems that has been behind the death of most of our industry and nothing has changed. We'll have to hit rock bottom before we realise we have to get off our arses and do whatever it takes, scrap the bloody unions - you ever want the job or sling your hook and let someone else get on with it. That would be a major start in the right direction IMO in these times.

Of course they don't have trade unions in Germany. Dork.

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Of course, the fact that British Management tends to regard any kind of union involvement as the sign of the devil is part of the problem as well. And it's not as if 3 decades of pro-business and anti-union legislation has exactly brought us to a high-growth nirvana..

jacking gas & electric prices up 15% a year is hardly conducive to a strong industrial economy.

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Whatever , i'd rather Rolls Royce got government cash handouts than any of the big banks.

What will they get? <5 billion? Tuppence compared to how much it cost to bail out the gamblers in the city.

I reckon the problem is all the taxes that RR has to pay. The tax burden has risen and risen, the company pays so much of the employment taxes. Remember companies and their workers such as RR have to shoulder the burden of the state, with their bloated public sector salaries and pensions and over generous welfare payments. Stick that cost on a jet engine and very soon it ceases to be priced to sell. The labour laws also make it difficult for companies to operate, there are some people you cant sack without costing you a lot of money.

I guess they are doing what management should be doing. Running the numbers through it all, and finding it is cheaper to go elsewhere.

The government doesnt need to subsidise companies, but it does need to reduce the tax burden on them. A massive axe on the cost of the state is needed, but alas there are all sorts of laws in place to stop the government from being able to do that. There is no political will to do what is necessary to make the nation competitive again. Sad to say then, that as a result, decisions such as this by RR are not a surprise.

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I did some factory work years ago and found people spending more effort trying to slow the process down than trying to actually produce the things, because A. they were lazy feckless losers, B. they feared they would have their targets increased if it was shown they could produce faster and/or C. they feared they would get to the end of the work and be out of a job.

So they win with C anyway

I think the best way to deal with this is go the route of John Lewis and incentivise people by making them share holders, perhaps, and i really mean perhaps, the British worker might give a shit if it was their company, otherwise i can't blame anyone for taking their factory to a place where they did.

Agreed. Waitrose are another who do well out of this plan.

Interesting to see the chat that this work may be taken abroad to Germany or the US. So it is not just Poland and India we cannot compete with. Pretty poor if true.

Unions <ARE SUPPOSED TO> represent the workers.

Caveat above.

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Unions represent the workers.

When you read the previous posts outright attacking UK Proles, the unions and our long fought for systems (like people injured at Rolls Royce and disabled through repetitve job production should not be compensated by Rolls Royce)

- makes you wonder how many scum posters there are trolling HPC and manipulating your mind and views!

The Masons are forced by their seniors under threats to do things like this - never join them!

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I reckon the problem is all the taxes that RR has to pay. The tax burden has risen and risen, the company pays so much of the employment taxes. Remember companies and their workers such as RR have to shoulder the burden of the state, with their bloated public sector salaries and pensions and over generous welfare payments. Stick that cost on a jet engine and very soon it ceases to be priced to sell. The labour laws also make it difficult for companies to operate, there are some people you cant sack without costing you a lot of money.

I guess they are doing what management should be doing. Running the numbers through it all, and finding it is cheaper to go elsewhere.

The government doesnt need to subsidise companies, but it does need to reduce the tax burden on them. A massive axe on the cost of the state is needed, but alas there are all sorts of laws in place to stop the government from being able to do that. There is no political will to do what is necessary to make the nation competitive again. Sad to say then, that as a result, decisions such as this by RR are not a surprise.

Well you jerk-offs soon changed your tune from blaming workers to taxes now eh?

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The government doesnt need to subsidise companies, but it does need to reduce the tax burden on them. A massive axe on the cost of the state is needed, but alas there are all sorts of laws in place to stop the government from being able to do that. There is no political will to do what is necessary to make the nation competitive again. Sad to say then, that as a result, decisions such as this by RR are not a surprise.

If it wasn't for the government subsidising Rolls Royce through the 70's and 80's it wouldn't exist today.

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Of course they don't have trade unions in Germany. Dork.

Yeah i think we've covered that already if you bothered reading the thread. Typical unionist ill-considered reactionaryism thanks.

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Well you jerk-offs soon changed your tune from blaming workers to taxes now eh?

Huh?

When did I blame the workers?

There have been problems in the past with unions taking over, but this has always been down to poor management. Good management will always strike a balance between the rights of capital and that of the workforce. Yes, they should insist on workers working hard and effectively, but in return they should expect a decent level of pay and safety and working conditions.

RR is a good example of what can be done with good management. It's success has been due to brilliant application of highly skilled engineers, and efficient use of its workforce.

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If it wasn't for the government subsidising Rolls Royce through the 70's and 80's it wouldn't exist today.

Yes, that is very true. Normally government intervention makes things worse. Occasionally they get it right though. I am not sure I would want to use this one example of success as evidence for supporting government intervention everywhere. The growth of RR in the last 20 years, has certainly been due to the profit motive though.

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Unions represent the workers.

that's the theory yes, but what do we see? Union leaders on 6 figure salaries living in council houses given 20% pension rises. They talk a good game comrades but it's all hot air and they do more harm to the workers prospects of having industries to work in than they do any good making it impossible to sack uncommitted workers or those who everyone knows is playing the sickness game.

Edited by athom

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Let's hope Rolls-Royce (and by extension Airbus) in the quest to keep things under budget to maximise profits don't end up hoisting themselves by their petards by cutting too many corners like Boeing did (by firing a lot of engineers and sub-contracted unreliable third parties for aircraft parts). And it seems tough for the average British worker in the private sector, no matter his qualifications or potential.

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Unions represent the workers.

Fabians started/funded The Labour Party

The Fabian Brotherhood motto is "Save Capitalism from the ordinary Proles"

Blair, Brown and esp. Balls are all Fabians (they do NOT represent the interests of lowly paid workers - just create the illusion they do cos they is secretly "Saving Capitalism" profits for the UK Elites

White Rose of York. (York rite = Templars, Royal Arch Freemasons etc)

RED ROSE of Lancaster

The White Rose of York (also called the Rose alba ... united the White and Red Roses to create the Tudor Rose = symbol of the Tudor dynasty

You've all been conned + manipulated for over 100yrs :P

Arabic word = 'ward' for rose (War of the roses?)

NHS constantly close WARDS

(The UK occult elites war against the proles - undermining their welfare systems!)

A _wards (cups + medals etc) = rose symbolism of the Elite occultists

A Ward is an 'elected' Govt Politicians/council representitive area

Masonic Puppetry occult Rose symbolism and the link to Stratford + Shakespeare

"The RSC wants to create the best modern playhouse for Shakespeare in the world. ... David Ward on the last performance in the Royal Shakespeare Theatre"

Rosy(i)-crucians

The doctrine of sympathies means that all things in the chain of correspondences may be used in ritual to affect all manner of ministreting (?) forces, and by use of the appropriate symbols even species of the divine power itself may be invoked, as Iambilicus attests.

2 The rose is a symbol par excellence. A sixteenth century lexicon says: "This symbol (the rose) ... has many and most profound meanings ... in all branches of the Hermetic mystery, as well as in the symbolism of Universal Mythology".

3 Such a symbol merits close attention by all students of occult philosophy.

Now you can see the occult significance of why the UK Occultists keep this symbol prominent (raising of Mary ROSE etc) and Occult Royal Dynasties use it as a symbol "par excellence" whilst the proles of UK 'Sleepy Hollow' are kept entranced in an illusionary version of the World.

http://www.whitedrag...ticles/rose.htm

Edited by erranta

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