Constable Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 It's so annoying hearing the crap talked about relations between the police and "the community" on the TV. I'm pretty sure that relations with the non-criminal elements are just fine, and I strongly suspect that relations with the criminal elements are not so good. Criminals don't like the police because they stop them doing the things they want to do and sometimes lock them up for it. "The community" is made up of good and bad, it's just that in areas like Tottenham the proportion of bad is higher than other areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 There are mini tensions in these types of areas mainly between the different ethnic groups....the long standing Afro Caribbean community have seen other recent migrants move to the area and compete for the available resources and work. So high immigration changes areas and some see this first hand more than others. This isn't recent, the area has been a shytehole since the 70's. My Grandfather had a Chemists shop in Green Lanes until 1978. It was offered to my Dad, also a Pharmacist who politely declined deciding Cambridge was a better place to bring up a family than that cess pit. All the family moved out of the area to better parts of Enfield and Barnet or outside London - all part of the general white flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 It will.. There is an underlying sentiment of seething anger. Much like 1960s Hong Kong, 1960s Hong Kong created the uber rentier class of hong Kong. It causes massive property price crashes in Hong Kong in Kowloon near the sea front (possibly the most expensive land on the planet). The rentiers Li Ka Shing hoovered up pretty much entire tower blocks and his empire is based entirely on this rentierism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 This isn't recent, the area has been a shytehole since the 70's. My Grandfather had a Chemists shop in Green Lanes until 1978. It was offered to my Dad, also a Pharmacist who politely declined deciding Cambridge was a better place to bring up a family than that cess pit. All the family moved out of the area to better parts of Enfield and Barnet or outside London - all part of the general white flight. So since the 70s the area has been mainly stable until fairly recently when newcomers have moved in, in large numbers.....they have moved to the cheaper London areas displacing those that moved in in the 60s and 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culvers Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) Its why I am so keen to get out to Surrey/Kent. good call. Just moved to ashford which is known as trash ford round these parts, but compared to where I lived before (acton) it is like living in paradise. Wouldn't go back to London if you paid me. Edited August 7, 2011 by culvers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 So since the 70s the area has been mainly stable until fairly recently when newcomers have moved in, in large numbers.....they have moved to the cheaper London areas displacing those that moved in in the 60s and 70s. Any stability came from the huuge sums of money poured into the area after this and then more latterly the Blair feelgood experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwater_Farm_riot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Any stability came from the huuge sums of money poured into the area after this and then more latterly the Blair feelgood experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwater_Farm_riot I can't disagree with that....any reduction in spending will be strongly felt in areas living on the edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleKev Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Just wondering if this is a typical cross section of the demographic mix of Tottenham? Where are the Polish rioters or the local white British rioters? Is that 50Cents standing there second from right or just another gangsta wannabe in a rapper costume that his Mum bought him for his birthday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Warwick Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 The police should have tranqualiser darts. If some people are going to behave like animals then they should be treated like them. Yes, but better .... The best part of fifty suspects are already in police custody and three people are in hospital. What do you want? Armoured vehicles running people over and 50 cal. machine guns cutting dozens of people in half? ....... Then just go round in the van to pick up the bodies later. Whats wrong with using real bullets to take out the rioters ?. These people have no place in our society Excatly. They are already accusing the Police of not talking to their community and using this as an excuse for their behaviour. If their community is separate then I say that they should remain so. Shoot on sight let the low level scum know that they need to behave correctly before they can join our society. police should have read the Riot Act and then gone in with guns blazing. As for anyone caught they should be charged with arson, rioting and looting if they were in the vacinity. Life imprisonment, or life in a mental institution should then follow ........ only because we do not have a death penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Excatly. They are already accusing the Police of not talking to their community and using this as an excuse for their behaviour. If their community is separate then I say that they should remain so. Shoot on sight let the low level scum know that they need to behave correctly before they can join our society. police should have read the Riot Act and then gone in with guns blazing. As for anyone caught they should be charged with arson, rioting and looting if they were in the vacinity. Life imprisonment, or life in a mental institution should then follow ........ only because we do not have a death penalty. Comical. Can you justify any of this stuff? Answers on a postcard to "I want to live Stalinist Russia" at the usual address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pale Rider Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 I notice that like the "Arab Spring" social networking sites played a major part apparently in mobilising protestors/rioters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Warwick Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Yes, it's rich old white men. Look it might not fit into your, or the leftie pc brigades slant on reality, but there a significant criminal element in that community. Even the poor old Leftie BBC that is so diverse it will soon be allowing white people to get on it, shows crime watch which should tell you everything you want to know ..... black, or scouse, or manc, or mix of any of the three. Add in a bit of eastern european sepecially Romanian and Albanian and you have the picture. The rioters excuse makers are already blaming the Police for not talking to the 'community'. Who are the 'community'? Why should they be consulted? Why the special treatment? Well because they get special treatment because of their latent criminality. They should be crushed. This society should not tolerate sub societies such as these. we should not pay to subdue them. They should be policed hard and fairly. No special treatment. If they want to smoke dope and laze around then back to Jamaica. If they want Saria Law then back to Pakistan, etc, etc. Once again the law abiding and tax paying people will end up picking up the bills for this bunch od criminals. We need to stamp them out. Real bullets not water cannon. Real criminal charges with the full penalty. I would charge all of those caught with arson, rioting and looting and give them all life and stick to life. Strong message. Then announce that the next time real bullets. Then offer one way tickets out of the UK to whatever society they want to be part of and that they actually feel offers them the community the reflects their ethnic requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pale Rider Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 The Tares amongst the Wheat are becoming apparent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Look it might not fit into your, or the leftie pc brigades slant on reality, but there a significant criminal element in that community. Even the poor old Leftie BBC that is so diverse it will soon be allowing white people to get on it, shows crime watch which should tell you everything you want to know ..... black, or scouse, or manc, or mix of any of the three. Add in a bit of eastern european sepecially Romanian and Albanian and you have the picture. The rioters excuse makers are already blaming the Police for not talking to the 'community'. Who are the 'community'? Why should they be consulted? Why the special treatment? Well because they get special treatment because of their latent criminality. They should be crushed. This society should not tolerate sub societies such as these. we should not pay to subdue them. They should be policed hard and fairly. No special treatment. If they want to smoke dope and laze around then back to Jamaica. If they want Saria Law then back to Pakistan, etc, etc. Once again the law abiding and tax paying people will end up picking up the bills for this bunch od criminals. We need to stamp them out. Real bullets not water cannon. Real criminal charges with the full penalty. I would charge all of those caught with arson, rioting and looting and give them all life and stick to life. Strong message. Then announce that the next time real bullets. Then offer one way tickets out of the UK to whatever society they want to be part of and that they actually feel offers them the community the reflects their ethnic requirements. I agree completely that there is a significant criminal element in the crowd. I was just pointing ut the fact that the vast majority of criminal behaviour is performed by rich old white guys. The problem with your approach is that 1) It's hypcritical to an extreme. 2) Every time any society takes this approach, soon most of the population are queueing for shoes and bread while El Presidente/Commisar/Uberfuhrer/King gets the best food, clothing, lives in a palace, taxation is 90% of income etc etc and if you argue you get shot in the forehead. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clocker Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 (edited) Tottenham and Central London are worlds apart socially and economically. It'll make bugger all difference. "I am looking, but no one is wearing brogues" "...don't let the locals see the windscreen wipers moving in case they try to rip them off !" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldZhlTc8k_E Edited August 7, 2011 by Clocker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 There was tons of police there last night before it really kicked off I made a mention of it on this thread yesterday. Just what exactly were they doing (apart from clocking up double time)? The combination of CCTV and DNA evidence makes it pointless to go in and attempt to arrest the rioters in full flow unless they are causing imminent danger to third parties. If you do, you'll only risk either police officers being injured or worse, or alternatively a Ray Tomlinson / De Menezes scenario in which accusations of brutality turn into another PR debacle. Far better to let the thugs do their worst, gather the CCTV evidence and DNA evidence from the scene afterwards, then round the scrotes up when things have died down. And the serial numbers of all the consumer electronics that were looted will have been recorded by their owners, and so when the stolen goods eventually surface in people's living rooms in sink estates, that'll be all the evidence you need to do their occupants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023254/Tottenham-riot-Mark-Duggan-shooting-sparked-police-beating-girl.html One resident, Laurence Bailey, told the Guardian that the violence started after a 16-year-old girl 'threw something, maybe a stone, at the original riot police line'.He added that this was met with a furious response, with around 15 riot officers pounding her with shields. This description of events was corroborated by another local who spoke to BBC News. He said that the girl was 'set upon' by police and that the crowd surged forward in anger. An excellent move there by the boys in blue. It's clear tensions where high, but why have this as the trigger. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/08/07/uk-britain-riot-scene-idUKTRE7762AZ20110807 Anger at high unemployment and cuts in public services, coupled with resentment of the police, contributed to an explosion of violence and looting in a deprived London neighbourhood, residents said Sunday.The riot in Tottenham, an area of sprawling north London that is home to many different ethnic groups, erupted on Saturday night after a street protest over the fatal shooting of a local man by police. Sound just like the 80's again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live#block-44 7.35pm: Initial ballistics tests on the bullet that lodged in a police officer's radio when Mark Duggan died on Thursday night show it was a police issue bullet, the Guardian understands.The Guardian's crime correspondent, Sandra Laville, reports: The revelation will fuel the fury in Tottenham about the killing of Mark Duggan by armed officers. It also undermines suggestions that there was an exchange of fire between Duggan and the police before he died. The bullet which was found lodged in the radio of one of the officers at the scene is still undergoing forensic tests. But reliable sources have said the first ballistics examinations suggested it was a police issue bullet. These are very distinct as the Metropolitan Police uses dum dum type hollowed out bullets designed not to pass through an object. The early suggestion from the IPCC was that the Met officers had returned fire after someone in the minicab opened fire. But the result of the ballistics early test suggests both shots fired came from the police. This is starting to turn a bit like mess that was Jean Charles de Menezes affair with the Police issuing false statements to try and cover it up. Surely they know if a gun was recovered from the scene or not? Not read anything about the case so I have no idea if a weapon was retrieved from the taxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 The clicking of people putting you on ignore lists grows louder. Maybe a poll to see how many people have him on ignore, I know I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live#block-44 This is starting to turn a bit like mess that was Jean Charles de Menezes affair with the Police issuing false statements to try and cover it up. Surely they know if a gun was recovered from the scene or not? Not read anything about the case so I have no idea if a weapon was retrieved from the taxi. It may still be the case that the guy opened fire. It just happens that one of the old bill got caught in a friendly fire incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 It may still be the case that the guy opened fire. It just happens that one of the old bill got caught in a friendly fire incident. I know, but from what little I've read so far the spin was that this bullet was evidence of someone opening fire. To be fair it was evidence of someone opening fire, the police. It's going to be interesting to see how this evolves. Also looking at headlines there's the suggestion the guy who was shot was a "gangster" but again that could be disinformation. However if he was a high profile "gangster" type figure it could be the reason why the police where a bit jumpy trying to arrest him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/07/tottenham-riots-police-duggan-live#block-44 This is starting to turn a bit like mess that was Jean Charles de Menezes affair with the Police issuing false statements to try and cover it up. Surely they know if a gun was recovered from the scene or not? Not read anything about the case so I have no idea if a weapon was retrieved from the taxi. Thought so when the astroturfers were on right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Well :( Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 Why didn't the police shoot the rioters? That would have been justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancypants Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 these riots are part of a wider, burgeoning, process of de-gentrification. Until quite recently, some quixotic folk were talking as if Tottenham was the next logical step, after Stoke Newington, Dalston, Clapton etc all succumbed. I think we're now beginning to see how the tide has not just turned, but is gathering momentum to sweep back to the shore with some vigour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Employed Youth Posted August 7, 2011 Share Posted August 7, 2011 A lot more shops looted and burned today I hear. Might be best to ditch the retail job and try and get a job in the nhs, police, cleaning the streets, perhaps shopfitting in a years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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