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Public Sector Just Not Learning!

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Quick story - Partner is a junior member of staff in a government quango, she joined from the private sector, worked there for a year and the usual tales of incompetence, waste and generally colleagues that would get eaten alive in the private sector - no actually are unemployable in private side.

Anyway a year ago it was announced that the 9 or so departments would be merged into the main governing arm of this department. So personally I am thinking not good as the cuts are potentially going to leave us an income short, however on the flip side at least the government/public sector are getting to grips with wastage and the inefficiencies and I would have backed the lower paid, younger, hungrier staff to get jobs.

The whole process is now nearing an end - partners quango have gone throught the re-application process to be matched to jobs within the department, the current system has 6 pay scales.

- Top 4 pay scales - Every single member of staff has been matched, some with promotions to fit into the structure. All managers, middle managers you know the type.

- Bottom 2 pay scales - 2 roles between 40 members of staff.

So rather predictably my partner didnt get a job. However this is not the end of the story, she now is put on a priority movers list so doesnt get her marching orders but it sounds like is retained on full pay until they find her a job. Now this isnt a job at her specialism, oh no, its just merely down to pay grade. So if she was an accountant she can apply for roles in HR, Marketing - anything as long as its at her payscale. So no redundancies. Ridiculous?

So - No real cuts, promotions, middle management retained.

This may seem like a bit of a rant and maybe it is but it just shows the inaction that is taking place which is going to kick the pain down the road.....

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Likely a lot of "redundancies" will be temporary and contract workers? and a lot will have been brought in just as the crisis started to gain momentum with the intended and express purpose of being last in first out fodder with minimal contractual rights.

Indeed for a significant period before MicBrown was voted out I recall there being a sharp increase in public sector recruitment which was noteworthy because of its extravagance.

Also any pension rights for the temporary and contract group will be pretty worthless and any added pension value from their stay will go into the permanent pension pot as in the main they'll have been employed by the public sector for less than 2 years.

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Quick story - Partner is a junior member of staff in a government quango, she joined from the private sector, worked there for a year and the usual tales of incompetence, waste and generally colleagues that would get eaten alive in the private sector - no actually are unemployable in private side.

Anyway a year ago it was announced that the 9 or so departments would be merged into the main governing arm of this department. So personally I am thinking not good as the cuts are potentially going to leave us an income short, however on the flip side at least the government/public sector are getting to grips with wastage and the inefficiencies and I would have backed the lower paid, younger, hungrier staff to get jobs.

The whole process is now nearing an end - partners quango have gone throught the re-application process to be matched to jobs within the department, the current system has 6 pay scales.

- Top 4 pay scales - Every single member of staff has been matched, some with promotions to fit into the structure. All managers, middle managers you know the type.

- Bottom 2 pay scales - 2 roles between 40 members of staff.

So rather predictably my partner didnt get a job. However this is not the end of the story, she now is put on a priority movers list so doesnt get her marching orders but it sounds like is retained on full pay until they find her a job. Now this isnt a job at her specialism, oh no, its just merely down to pay grade. So if she was an accountant she can apply for roles in HR, Marketing - anything as long as its at her payscale. So no redundancies. Ridiculous?

So - No real cuts, promotions, middle management retained.

This may seem like a bit of a rant and maybe it is but it just shows the inaction that is taking place which is going to kick the pain down the road.....

Sadly it want end till the taxpayers are at the castle gate with the pitchfork and the torches, then it will be too late.

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Sadly it want end till the taxpayers are at the castle gate with the pitchfork and the torches, then it will be too late.

V for Vendetta? I have my mask ready, I also have a mask ready for Cameron & Osborne - a gimp mask :lol:

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I want a gravy train job. If you have one that pays obscene amounts of money for a couple days a month doing funny handshakes, please PM me.

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I want a gravy train job. If you have one that pays obscene amounts of money for a couple days a month doing funny handshakes, please PM me.

fluffer?

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I want a gravy train job. If you have one that pays obscene amounts of money for a couple days a month doing funny handshakes, please PM me.

Apply for one then. Plenty of people moan about how great public sector jobs ae on here, but never actually get off their backsides and apply for one. Or are you not qualified?

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This may seem like a bit of a rant and maybe it is but it just shows the inaction that is taking place which is going to kick the pain down the road.....

...no rant ..these are crimes committed against the taxpayer and funds which could be invested in services, charities and society...they will be held to account.... :rolleyes:

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It is very strange - I also know somebody who says that she could literally walk into an unrelated line of work in the public sector at the same pay level with no prior knowledge!!

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Apply for one then. Plenty of people moan about how great public sector jobs ae on here, but never actually get off their backsides and apply for one. Or are you not qualified?

I agree with you, strangely (!)

I don't think public sect jobs ARE the ones to go for anymore, I am sure there are good ones in there, however the gravy train years are in the past and anyone going for one now for the express sake of 'getting on the gravy train' will be dissapointed, I suspect

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they sus you out early on with questions on diversity etc,you gotta be well trained to get through the rigourously controlled 'thought' interview.it's not as easy as just applying,quite often you have to speak fluent zanu.

I should know.

uncle bob

my wife went for one. got an interview too ( we needed to have an insider to tell us about the job)

It was odd that they kept asking her about the "FLOPS" computer system and what she would do if "this or that" happened. (I made up the name FLOPS but it was a bespoke system for medical reception in this hospital).

Also waiting in line were people who worked in the hospital...

Of course, with no "FLOPS" experience, how could she possibly be up for the job...of course, she never got it, in spite of years of experience in the private sector with data entry and appointment making.

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Similar story here (university). We have a 'redeployment register', which anyone coming to the end of a fixed-term contract or being made redundant is placed on. If they apply for any new vacancy under the scheme, they have to be interviewed, and if they meet the basic job spec (even if they can't meet any of the 'desirable' criteria), they have to be given the job ahead of any external applicants, even if an external is far more suited to the demands of that particular post.

We now have two utterly incompetent administrators made redundant from other schools and departments, one of whom is incapable of entering data into the student records system correctly, as a result of this scheme. While as a general rule I am in favour of measures that preserve job security, this scheme appears to do little more than protect incompetents and prevent good people from being given their chance.

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Similar story here (university). We have a 'redeployment register', which anyone coming to the end of a fixed-term contract or being made redundant is placed on. If they apply for any new vacancy under the scheme, they have to be interviewed, and if they meet the basic job spec (even if they can't meet any of the 'desirable' criteria), they have to be given the job ahead of any external applicants, even if an external is far more suited to the demands of that particular post.

We now have two utterly incompetent administrators made redundant from other schools and departments, one of whom is incapable of entering data into the student records system correctly, as a result of this scheme. While as a general rule I am in favour of measures that preserve job security, this scheme appears to do little more than protect incompetents and prevent good people from being given their chance.

if data cant be entered correctly, then there is a serious fault with the IT...not the user...unless they cant read English or are dyslexic.

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if data cant be entered correctly, then there is a serious fault with the IT...not the user...unless they cant read English or are dyslexic.

What a peculiar thing to say (and 'cant' - sic - should have an apostrophe ;) )

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What a peculiar thing to say (and 'cant' - sic - should have an apostrophe ;) )

im sorry, but if I pick up a book but the message is not put accross, then the fault is with the book, not the reader. My fault for not explaining clearly enough for you.

Same with IT...if the forms are not clearly designed to enable input, then the forms are wrong.

If of course, the user is incapable of reading the screen, then that is a case of the user being unfit for the task.

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im sorry, but if I pick up a book but the message is not put accross, then the fault is with the book, not the reader. My fault for not explaining clearly enough for you.

Being able to read and being able to comprehend are not the same thing.

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Apply for one then. Plenty of people moan about how great public sector jobs ae on here, but never actually get off their backsides and apply for one. Or are you not qualified?

The public sector do struggle when it comes to finding suitably qualified people. I understand Surrey County Council are currently desperately trying to recruit someone with a hole digging degree.

Anyone able to apply for this tricky position?

BEMUSED villagers have been refused permission to plant trees because they are not "qualified" to dig the holes.

Effingham Parish Council wants to plant saplings alongside the A246 Guildford Road to replace beech trees that were felled three years ago after turning rotten.

But parish councillor James Nicholls said: "They are saying we can't do it because 'we haven't got anyone qualified to dig a hole'. This is stupidity of the highest order.

"These people are utterly useless and just seem to stop us from doing anything which we are happy to take into our own hands. We are happy to fund it, plant them and do the job."

"The trees should be planted but it surely costs them more to be doing things in this unnecessary way. I find it very difficult to deal with and understand."

A Surrey County Council spokesman said: "We have been talking to the parish council about this and will continue to work with them to get replacement trees planted safely."

More here

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Similar story here (university). We have a 'redeployment register', which anyone coming to the end of a fixed-term contract or being made redundant is placed on. If they apply for any new vacancy under the scheme, they have to be interviewed, and if they meet the basic job spec (even if they can't meet any of the 'desirable' criteria), they have to be given the job ahead of any external applicants, even if an external is far more suited to the demands of that particular post.

We now have two utterly incompetent administrators made redundant from other schools and departments, one of whom is incapable of entering data into the student records system correctly, as a result of this scheme. While as a general rule I am in favour of measures that preserve job security, this scheme appears to do little more than protect incompetents and prevent good people from being given their chance.

Jobs for the boys.....no wonder we have such an incompetent public sector in parts....time to get rid of the dead wood and inject new blood and new innovative ideas into the old money sponge. ;)

Edit: another case of turkeys not voting for Christmas.

Edited by winkie

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Being able to read and being able to comprehend are not the same thing.

clearly.is that the fault of the machine demanding information, or the fault of the person unable to fathom what it is asking for?

Edited by Bloo Loo

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clearly.is that the fault of the machine demanding information, or the fault of the person unable to fathom what it is asking for?

We're talking about Leeds Uni here and it's true that it maintains incompetent staff at the detriment of competent individuals; it is also true that the IT system and ISS are a farce. I had an IT request in to remove a virus from my pc that took me 10 minutes at home, they spent a day (literally could not use the pc for 24 hours) on remote access to do it.

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From the public sector (NHS) shop floor:-

Believe it or not, there ARE workers in the public sector who do worthwhile things, work hard and are genuinely dedicated. The amount of free overtime put in by Those That Really Mean It would bankrupt the NHS if it was actually paid.

BUT...

It sounds like it might surprise some on here, but the good staff know damn fine that the system is riddled with incompetent &/or workshy &/or severely Personality Disordered people from top to bottom. At best these people waste space & an income, at worse they make needless extra work for those trying to keep the wheels turning, and at worst they are actively destructive - over the years I've seen many, many good staff simply throw up their hands, give up and leave rather than continue to try to cope with these morons, thereby worsening things further. Even then, when everyone knows why the organisation's lost significant talent, nothing is ever done about it. Although it's always dutifully noted in an "exit interview".

The real problem isn't "all public sector staff are unemployable wasters"TM HPC. It's that managerialism in its public sector guise makes it totally bloody impossible to shift these people. Those of us actually doing the work know who they are and given a free hand and a week could rid the system of the dead weight (with a purge that would make Stalin envious). It is probably zero consolation to say that this problem is a source of the most intense, piss-boiling frustration to good public sector staff too.

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It was odd that they kept asking her about the "FLOPS" computer system and what she would do if "this or that" happened. (I made up the name FLOPS but it was a bespoke system for medical reception in this hospital).

Also waiting in line were people who worked in the hospital...

It does look as if they, rather shamelessly, had an internal candidate already lined-up. This does happen rather more in the public sector than in the private sector, mainly because it is very difficult in the public sector to get promoted without actually going through a 'competitive' recruitment process for the more senior job. In the private sector, there can be more discretion for internal promotions.

Unfortunately, it's usually a bit of a waste of time for everyone involved when this happens. However, I have seen on more than one occasion where the preferred internal candidate didn't get 'their job'. The shock for them was indescribable; as they were certain that they were getting the job from the day it had been advertised. The bosses were so keen to employ these people at senior level, that they had even drafted the job descriptions to make them a perfect fit. However, when it came to interview, there was no hiding the fact that the external candidates were simply better.

The other thing that your post suggested to me was one of the things that public sector recruiters like; they like people who have done their homework, at least at middle and senior levels. In other words, people who haven't performed a thorough reconnoitre of the job before applying (e.g. visiting the boss, seeing what work is done, what are the major tools used, what are the relevant issues for someone in that job, what are the political pressures on the job, what are the development plans for the department, etc.) are often at a significant disadvantage.

So, if someone was applying, even for a relatively modest management position, they would be expected to have some knowledge of the specific workings of the department. So, for this reason, the public sector often expect prospective applicants to visit, see the department, speak to the incumbent staff, their managers, etc. to get an idea of some of the internal workings.

That said, I don't believe for one minute that this sort of initiative is expected for a clerical job.

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The real problem isn't "all public sector staff are unemployable wasters"TM HPC. It's that managerialism in its public sector guise makes it totally bloody impossible to shift these people. Those of us actually doing the work know who they are and given a free hand and a week could rid the system of the dead weight (with a purge that would make Stalin envious). It is probably zero consolation to say that this problem is a source of the most intense, piss-boiling frustration to good public sector staff too.

I have never agreed more with a statement on a thread on this topic. There seems to be a fear of, or ineptitude at, 'firing'.

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From the public sector (NHS) shop floor:-

Believe it or not, there ARE workers in the public sector who do worthwhile things, work hard and are genuinely dedicated. The amount of free overtime put in by Those That Really Mean It would bankrupt the NHS if it was actually paid.

BUT...

It sounds like it might surprise some on here, but the good staff know damn fine that the system is riddled with incompetent &/or workshy &/or severely Personality Disordered people from top to bottom. At best these people waste space & an income, at worse they make needless extra work for those trying to keep the wheels turning, and at worst they are actively destructive - over the years I've seen many, many good staff simply throw up their hands, give up and leave rather than continue to try to cope with these morons, thereby worsening things further. Even then, when everyone knows why the organisation's lost significant talent, nothing is ever done about it. Although it's always dutifully noted in an "exit interview".

The real problem isn't "all public sector staff are unemployable wasters"TM HPC. It's that managerialism in its public sector guise makes it totally bloody impossible to shift these people. Those of us actually doing the work know who they are and given a free hand and a week could rid the system of the dead weight (with a purge that would make Stalin envious). It is probably zero consolation to say that this problem is a source of the most intense, piss-boiling frustration to good public sector staff too.

Of course there are many good competent and efficient people working in the public sector I have met them....the huge problem is that there are some that should not be working there...they let the side down, they are moved from pillar to post creating problems not solving them.....either you train them or manage them out...they can and do, do it in the private sector regularly and without too much pain...the private sector after all have a business to run.

I have seen it done many times and what a relief to everyone when they have gone......it is the management in the public sectors fault, they either can't be bothered, don't know the process, pass the buck or would rather have the easy life and pass the problem to someone else to deal with and of course they never do....... ;)

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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