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Dave Beans

Concerned About Losing Your Job? Move To Mumbai

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/concerned-about-losing-your-job-in-newcastle-just-move-to-mumbai-2331450.html

During the Thatcher government, Norman Tebbit coined a phrase for the age when he advised the unemployed to do what his father did and "get on their bikes and look for work".

The rail minister Theresa Villiers is now being accused of bringing the philosophy up to date after appearing to tell sacked call-centre workers in Newcastle to relocate to Mumbai. A letter written by Ms Villiers to Berwick MP Sir Alan Beith has prompted anger from Labour and the unions, which have described the prospect of staff from the North-east being asked to move 5,000 miles to do the same job in India as "unhinged and unpatriotic".

The row follows the closure of Baron House, a former East Coast passenger call centre, which resulted in the loss of nearly 200 jobs and delivered a major blow to the region's struggling economy. A review of public contracts by the newly nationalised rail operator meant the existing provider, National Express, missed out to two other companies, one of which, Intelenet (UK) has operations in Plymouth and Mumbai.

It has now emerged that a third of those jobs have now been exported to India while the rest have been divided between centres in Wolverhampton and Devon. None of the workers from Newcastle relocated, a rail source said.

But in her letter Ms Villiers, MP for Chipping Barnet, sought to reassure Sir Alan that under Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations (TUPE), their future was secure. She said: "These staff will be given the opportunity to transfer to the new service providers under TUPE where those services are to continue. Staff who are unable to move to the new location will be offered a voluntary redundancy package or alternatives roles within East Coast, where available." Maria Eagle, Labour's shadow Secretary of State for Transport, dismissed the suggestion as adding "insult to injury".

"The buck must stop with Theresa Villiers and her fellow ministers in this Tory-led Government," Ms Eagle said. "They should be offering support for those who risk losing their jobs rather than making ridiculous suggestions that they move to India."

East Coast has been in government hands since National Express gave up the loss-making franchise to operate trains between London and Edinburgh in 2009. RMT regional organiser, Craig Johnston, said the closure was a bitter blow to staff. "I doubt the Indian workers will enjoy anything like the same wages or conditions of employment enjoyed by those employed in Newcastle so this decision stinks of exploitation as well," he said.

A National Express East Anglia spokesperson confirmed that "all employees have now left the business". East Coast, which employed nine people at the call centre, said all its workers had either moved to other roles in the company or taken voluntary redundancy. A Department for Transport spokesman said: "National Express Services Ltd staff employed at Baron House will be given the opportunity to transfer to the new service provider under TUPE. Exactly how this works will be a matter for the new service provider."

North-East vs South Asia

Newcastle-upon-Tyne

Population 273,000 residents, making it England's 20th most populous city.

Climate Fog on the Tyne notwithstanding it is decidedly chilly. Average temperatures hover at 12C.

Famous daughter Super Geordie Cheryl Cole made her name in Girls Aloud but is better known as a judge in X Factor.

Top food The North-east has given the world the stottie cake (a type of bread roll), pease pudding (boiled split peas) and pan haggerty (potato, onions and cheese).

Where to go No trip to Tyneside is complete without a night down the famous Bigg Market.

Landmark Tyne Bridge opened in 1928 by George V, was the longest single span in the world.

Sport Known as the Magpies or the Toon, Newcastle United Football Club is the winner of four first division titles and six FA Cups.

Mumbai

Population The most populous city in India and the sixth biggest in the world, it boasts 12.5 million inhabitants.

Climate Tropical with monsoon season while temperatures average 27C.

Famous son The world's greatest batsman Sachin Tendulkar may be labouring in England this summer but in his native city he is idolised.

Top food Street food rules in Mumbai and among the favourite snacks is the calorific butter pav bhaji.

Where to go By day Chowpatty Beach is a place for strolling lovers and families; by night it turns into a vast open-air restaurant.

Landmark The Gateway of India was completed in 1924 to mark a visit by King George V and Queen Mary.

Sport Cricket is king in Mumbai and the city team is India's most successful, winning 39 Ranji Trophy championships.

They may have a better quality of life in Mumbai compared to Newcastle...

Edited by Dave Beans

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I''ve been to mumbai....you really dion't want to go and live there, unless you're getting paid western wages.

You don't know what poverty is till you've been somewhere like this....or dirt.

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I''ve been to mumbai....you really dion't want to go and live there, unless you're getting paid western wages.

You don't know what poverty is till you've been somewhere like this....or dirt.

That echos what a guy where I am tells me. He worked in India for a few years as a civil engineer and said the squalor, poverty, and filth has to be seen to be beleived.

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That echos what a guy where I am tells me. He worked in India for a few years as a civil engineer and said the squalor, poverty, and filth has to be seen to be beleived.

Yeah, words can describe how impoverished it is. Thousands are sleeping out in the streets and beggars everywhere. The old colonial part of the town is OK but it is run down and crumbling. The rest of the place is squalid. We walked down a wrong turn into a shanty town. Families living in card board boxes, s**ting, cooking, washing, sitting in the street. Didn't feel particularly safe at any time. If you were wealthy enough not to have to deal with any of that...you'd move to the UK :lol::lol::lol::lol:

P.S. Some advice to anyone ever thinking of going on holiday to India. DONT !!!!. A friend of mine went years ago and told me not to go, I thought, "yeah, can't be that bad"....it is that bad!!! He was right, I wish I had listened tohim and hadn't gone. There are some amazing things/sights to see for sure but the hassle, dirty, awfulness of the place doesn't make it worth going to see. I felt like an open wallet to the locals. They weren't particularly nice. about anything. They just see you have money and they want it. The hassle we got off people was incredible. It was truly s**t. For instance, coming out of a train station we'd be surrounded by 20 taxi drivers begging us to take their cab and pulling at us. I don't think they particularly link the British, understandably as we killed millions of them ( that's hard to forget never mind forgive ).

I'd much rather go to Thailand, they might be fleecing you but they smile when they do it. It's 10000000001 times better than india.

P.S. I'd rather be in Newcastle any day of the week.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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I''ve been to mumbai....you really dion't want to go and live there, unless you're getting paid western wages.

You don't know what poverty is till you've been somewhere like this....or dirt.

Too many people live in India , simple as that.

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Yeah, words can describe how impoverished it is. Thousands are sleeping out in the streets and beggars everywhere. The old colonial part of the town is OK but it is run down and crumbling. The rest of the place is squalid. We walked down a wrong turn into a shanty town. Families living in card board boxes, s**ting, cooking, washing, sitting in the street. Didn't feel particularly safe at any time. If you were wealthy enough not to have to deal with any of that...you'd move to the UK :lol::lol::lol::lol:

P.S. Some advice to anyone ever thinking of going on holiday to India. DONT !!!!. A friend of mine went years ago and told me not to go, I thought, "yeah, can't be that bad"....it is that bad!!! He was right, I wish I had listened tohim and hadn't gone. There are some amazing things/sights to see for sure but the hassle, dirty, awfulness of the place doesn't make it worth going to see. I felt like an open wallet to the locals. They weren't particularly nice. about anything. They just see you have money and they want it. The hassle we got off people was incredible. It was truly s**t. For instance, coming out of a train station we'd be surrounded by 20 taxi drivers begging us to take their cab and pulling at us. I don't think they particularly link the British, understandably as we killed millions of them ( that's hard to forget never mind forgive ).

I'd much rather go to Thailand, they might be fleecing you but they smile when they do it. It's 10000000001 times better than india.

P.S. I'd rather be in Newcastle any day of the week.

Time their large greedy middle class did something about the poverty that surrounds them. The indians I know who have settled here are heavily into BTL and multiple propert ownership by the way.

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Too many people live in India , simple as that.

Definitely...that's one of the main problems. it's a timebomb waiting to happen.

As righttoleech points out too the middle ( and upper ) classes there should have a responsibility to the lower classes. This is not the case, from what I saw they'd happily run them over in their cars...literally.

It's an awful place and I can see why they are desperate to move to the UK. Sadly parts of the UK are becoming like India...too many people...no social responsibility.

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Can't we outsource our politicians too?

From the article i'm sure Theresa Vilehairs would be first to sign up to relocate.

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I'm sure the rail company took all this through their lawyers but two things spring to mind.

Firstly, TUPE preserves Ts & Cs and many contracts (or custom and practice) specify place of work.

Secondly, if the die had fallen such that I was a call centre operator in NE England and was offered the chance to go to India on UK wages (TUPE certainly protects pay), I'd give it a bash. If it was hell I'd come back to Blighty.

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Yeah, words can describe how impoverished it is. Thousands are sleeping out in the streets and beggars everywhere. The old colonial part of the town is OK but it is run down and crumbling. The rest of the place is squalid. We walked down a wrong turn into a shanty town. Families living in card board boxes, s**ting, cooking, washing, sitting in the street. Didn't feel particularly safe at any time. If you were wealthy enough not to have to deal with any of that...you'd move to the UK :lol::lol::lol::lol:

P.S. Some advice to anyone ever thinking of going on holiday to India. DONT !!!!. A friend of mine went years ago and told me not to go, I thought, "yeah, can't be that bad"....it is that bad!!! He was right, I wish I had listened tohim and hadn't gone. There are some amazing things/sights to see for sure but the hassle, dirty, awfulness of the place doesn't make it worth going to see. I felt like an open wallet to the locals. They weren't particularly nice. about anything. They just see you have money and they want it. The hassle we got off people was incredible. It was truly s**t. For instance, coming out of a train station we'd be surrounded by 20 taxi drivers begging us to take their cab and pulling at us. I don't think they particularly link the British, understandably as we killed millions of them ( that's hard to forget never mind forgive ).

I'd much rather go to Thailand, they might be fleecing you but they smile when they do it. It's 10000000001 times better than india.

P.S. I'd rather be in Newcastle any day of the week.

So much for the miracles of globalised capitalism.

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As someone else has pointed out - were these people offered UK wages to move and work in Mumbai ? If so then I cannot beleive not even one took it up. Even for a few years you could live very very well.

Also - what sort of redundancy deals did these people get ? It is not great if jobs are being moved elsewhere - but if you get 3-12 months notice and a big wad to set you on your way ? Not exactly the end of the World. Maybe instead of whinging these people could head off to Mumbai with some of their redundancy cash and see how the other half live. Maybe these people wouldn't be quite so distraught after all. Everything is relative afterall.

As for going to India on holiday. I thought it was an amazing place. We are all different however.

The place is on a whole different level to anywhere else you amy go like Thailand or Vietnam. Different World. But so much to see, amazing stuff to eat and cheap as chips. I would thouroughly recommend it.

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"It has now emerged that a third of those jobs have now been exported to India while the rest have been divided between centres in Wolverhampton and Devon. None of the workers from Newcastle relocated, a rail source said."

So can we assume that unlike the sensationalist headline - these people were also offered to move to other places in the UK ?

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Yeah, words can describe how impoverished it is. Thousands are sleeping out in the streets and beggars everywhere. The old colonial part of the town is OK but it is run down and crumbling. The rest of the place is squalid. We walked down a wrong turn into a shanty town. Families living in card board boxes, s**ting, cooking, washing, sitting in the street. Didn't feel particularly safe at any time. If you were wealthy enough not to have to deal with any of that...you'd move to the UK :lol::lol::lol::lol:

P.S. Some advice to anyone ever thinking of going on holiday to India. DONT !!!!. A friend of mine went years ago and told me not to go, I thought, "yeah, can't be that bad"....it is that bad!!! He was right, I wish I had listened tohim and hadn't gone. There are some amazing things/sights to see for sure but the hassle, dirty, awfulness of the place doesn't make it worth going to see. I felt like an open wallet to the locals. They weren't particularly nice. about anything. They just see you have money and they want it. The hassle we got off people was incredible. It was truly s**t. For instance, coming out of a train station we'd be surrounded by 20 taxi drivers begging us to take their cab and pulling at us. I don't think they particularly link the British, understandably as we killed millions of them ( that's hard to forget never mind forgive ).

I'd much rather go to Thailand, they might be fleecing you but they smile when they do it. It's 10000000001 times better than india.

P.S. I'd rather be in Newcastle any day of the week.

Your post reminded me of my time in India.

I've never been there as a tourist but been there to work a few times. Very frustrating place to get anything done. Power goes out multiple times per day. Getting hold of basic stuff to do the job very difficult. Integrity of PC's etc bad. General organisation and robustness very poor. Hard work to keep yourself in good shape while you are over there as well. At the end of the day you're there to get the job done, not spend a week sick in bed. Big suitcase full of Mars bars and cream crackers normally does the job.

As a holiday I guess it's different. If you're into adventure and excitement India I think would be hard to beat. No two days are the same. There's always something interesting kicking off to watch or see, or some utterly nosensical issue that needs to be navigated. The poverty can be mind bending and helps you put your own life into perspective. The richness of sights, sounds and smells makes life in the west look very sterile.

All of the Indians I've dealt with have been very friendly, but I guess you need to be careful that working over there you only sample the rich population and not normal people (the same is true of other countries such as the States). I never felt unsafe over there. I think petty crime (pickpocketing) is much more common than muggings/robbery with violence. Considering the outrageous poverty to me this is surprising, but it may be a cultural/religious thing.

Transport over there is a big issue. As a business traveller by far your most significant threat is transport accidents. Raj and his clapped out taxi driven at breakneck speed is far more of a risk to you than any international terrorist organisation. Over in India I've been in a van that's been forced off the road and rolled over (we rolled it back onto its wheels), driven through a city on the back of a motorbike at breakneck speed, watched a guy fall off a lorry and get crushed, been in a car that had its brakes failed and had to have something re-welded by the side of road, been in a car when the road has been pratcially washed away by a rainstorm, and all that in only 3 trips.

India to me is an interesting place to vist, but probably a pretty crap place to live. The gushings of tourists who come back from the place saying how great it is annoy me somewhat. Yeah, it's probably great if you've got a shedload of cash and you're not under pressure to get anything done and just get moved around the place from tourist attraction to tourist atraction in an airconned bus and get bailed out by private med if things go wrong then fine. If you have to interact with society and get anything done it's a different issue.

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As someone else has pointed out - were these people offered UK wages to move and work in Mumbai ? If so then I cannot beleive not even one took it up. Even for a few years you could live very very well.

Also - what sort of redundancy deals did these people get ? It is not great if jobs are being moved elsewhere - but if you get 3-12 months notice and a big wad to set you on your way ? Not exactly the end of the World. Maybe instead of whinging these people could head off to Mumbai with some of their redundancy cash and see how the other half live. Maybe these people wouldn't be quite so distraught after all. Everything is relative afterall.

As for going to India on holiday. I thought it was an amazing place. We are all different however.

The place is on a whole different level to anywhere else you amy go like Thailand or Vietnam. Different World. But so much to see, amazing stuff to eat and cheap as chips. I would thouroughly recommend it.

It's OK for single, young people, but then, would you seriously move to Mumbai rather than go on the dole with your mates?. What if you have a family? I would assume that the call centre workers were not the main earners in the family.

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It's OK for single, young people, but then, would you seriously move to Mumbai rather than go on the dole with your mates?. What if you have a family? I would assume that the call centre workers were not the main earners in the family.

In CCC world families are't important. Those Northern scum are lazy. End of.

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"It has now emerged that a third of those jobs have now been exported to India while the rest have been divided between centres in Wolverhampton and Devon. None of the workers from Newcastle relocated, a rail source said."

So can we assume that unlike the sensationalist headline - these people were also offered to move to other places in the UK ?

Why the fook would you move all that way for a near NMW job?!

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On a point of fact is it even possible to legally emigrate to India? Anecdotally I've heard people who have made enquiries been unambiguously told to shove off; India doesn't take immigrants. Labour and skills shortages aren't a big problem for them I'd guess - maybe if you're importing capital it's different....

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It's OK for single, young people, but then, would you seriously move to Mumbai rather than go on the dole with your mates?. What if you have a family? I would assume that the call centre workers were not the main earners in the family.

This is a call centre. Ever ventured into one ? I will give you clue, they are generally full of many single 20 somethings. ;)

Just shows hte lack of imagination or drive of these people. If the story is to be beleived - and we have no way of knowing for sure - not even one bothered to give it a go and see what life was like over there. Pretty poor IMO. Try it - if it is shit - come back home. Why not ? Either way you will have a great experience to look back upon - whether it was good or bad does not really matter !!

In CCC world families are't important. Those Northern scum are lazy. End of.

Just giving another perspective on this thing. To which I get the usual expected responses. :rolleyes:

Jobsmove to India headline ? Well not exactly. A third of them are. The other two thirds are being kept in the UK. So do you think that not only keeping jobs in the UK is enough - if they are in the North East then that is it !! They shall stay in the North East forever more !! Hooray !! Or maybe not.

And even those who have lost their jobs got almost 6 months notice of this - and a redundancy package to set them on their way.

I just think these people should open their minds a little. And instead of feeling sorry for themselves actually appreciate they have it very very very very very very very very very very very very cruisy compared to the place where these jobs are being taken too.

That is all. A little perspective and common sense on this subject rather than a Daily Mail esque style non thinking response that articles like this tend to result in.

I know - I should be ashamed.:rolleyes:

Why the fook would you move all that way for a near NMW job?!

Well indeed. They will probably find something else much closer by. And with a nice redundancy pay - they have a wee bit of breathing space to do so. It is not exactly the end of the World - is it ?

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On a point of fact is it even possible to legally emigrate to India? Anecdotally I've heard people who have made enquiries been unambiguously told to shove off; India doesn't take immigrants. Labour and skills shortages aren't a big problem for them I'd guess - maybe if you're importing capital it's different....

It's possible to work just about anywhere if you have the corporate support to get the stuff done. DIY would probably be a nightmare, if possible at all. India is a particularly bureacratic place.

Something tells me that the amount of corporate support given to say a highly paid financial worker/oil sector worker/power engineer etc might be different to that given to a call centre worker.

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I''ve been to mumbai....you really dion't want to go and live there, unless you're getting paid western wages.

You don't know what poverty is till you've been somewhere like this....or dirt.

Seconded, it's really not very nice. Even on western wages you'd find it hard to avoid the grime, poverty and smell. Somewhere up in the north of India would be a much better bet.

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It's typical of a UK politician in a cushy UK job.

Only to be expected.

For consistency we ought to outsource our Govt. to Mumbai.

Oh, we have.

Ratan+Tata+Prime+Minister+David+Cameron+Meets+i0saE0AcLOUl.jpg

Edited by Red Knight

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On a point of fact is it even possible to legally emigrate to India? Anecdotally I've heard people who have made enquiries been unambiguously told to shove off; India doesn't take immigrants. Labour and skills shortages aren't a big problem for them I'd guess - maybe if you're importing capital it's different....

Work permits are easy enough to get with corporate support - easier than the US for example. I doubt that enforcement is remotely stringent though, and everything seems to be available for a price.

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Your post reminded me of my time in India.

I've never been there as a tourist but been there to work a few times. Very frustrating place to get anything done. Power goes out multiple times per day. Getting hold of basic stuff to do the job very difficult. Integrity of PC's etc bad. General organisation and robustness very poor. Hard work to keep yourself in good shape while you are over there as well. At the end of the day you're there to get the job done, not spend a week sick in bed. Big suitcase full of Mars bars and cream crackers normally does the job.

As a holiday I guess it's different. If you're into adventure and excitement India I think would be hard to beat. No two days are the same. There's always something interesting kicking off to watch or see, or some utterly nosensical issue that needs to be navigated. The poverty can be mind bending and helps you put your own life into perspective. The richness of sights, sounds and smells makes life in the west look very sterile.

All of the Indians I've dealt with have been very friendly, but I guess you need to be careful that working over there you only sample the rich population and not normal people (the same is true of other countries such as the States). I never felt unsafe over there. I think petty crime (pickpocketing) is much more common than muggings/robbery with violence. Considering the outrageous poverty to me this is surprising, but it may be a cultural/religious thing.

Transport over there is a big issue. As a business traveller by far your most significant threat is transport accidents. Raj and his clapped out taxi driven at breakneck speed is far more of a risk to you than any international terrorist organisation. Over in India I've been in a van that's been forced off the road and rolled over (we rolled it back onto its wheels), driven through a city on the back of a motorbike at breakneck speed, watched a guy fall off a lorry and get crushed, been in a car that had its brakes failed and had to have something re-welded by the side of road, been in a car when the road has been pratcially washed away by a rainstorm, and all that in only 3 trips.

India to me is an interesting place to vist, but probably a pretty crap place to live. The gushings of tourists who come back from the place saying how great it is annoy me somewhat. Yeah, it's probably great if you've got a shedload of cash and you're not under pressure to get anything done and just get moved around the place from tourist attraction to tourist atraction in an airconned bus and get bailed out by private med if things go wrong then fine. If you have to interact with society and get anything done it's a different issue.

I've been to work there for a couple of weeks too. It was a different experience from holidaying there. Work wise, you are living in a 5 star bubble. You see the s**T outside your limo but that is about it. The people I worked with were very warm and friendly, the Indian middle class.

One incident I had on holiday was....after about 10 days you become numb to the constant harassment...people pulling at you, people trying to rip you off, people trying to speak to you and/or attract your attention.

Walking through one town, some young lads, ( 3 of them about 18 ) walked past saying this like "hey british people", "hey, whats you name" etc ect. We ignored them, we had learned this was the best5 course of action. We could have been any nationality too ( though we must look British/European ). When they realised they were getting ignored one of them should "British w@nkers" at us. His face was a picture when I turn round and grabbed him and said "I heard that you little pr*ck". His friends ran off and a couple suddenly appeared. I let him go and he denied saying anything. I told him if he spoke to me like that I would kick him from there to Timbuctu.

As a toursit there was nothing enjoyable about the experience for me. There are far much nicer, friendlier and more interesting places to visit.

I blame the Beatles for popularising trips to India, though, they came from Liverpool so India probably looked clean to them :rolleyes:

( I apologise to all liverpudlians for that joke, I love liverpool and the people )

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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