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Keynes V Hayek: Two Economic Giants Go Head To Head

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14366054

John Maynard Keynes and Friedrich August Hayek were two prominent economists of the Great Depression era with sharply contrasting views. The arguments they had in the 1930s have been revived in the wake of the latest global financial crisis.

The contemporary relevance of their ideas has even been debated in a rap video. More than 1,000 people attended a BBC Radio 4 debate at the London School of Economics to hear supporters of the two economists argue their case.

Once more those that supposedly support Keynes failed to mention he advocated a balanced budget in a boom as well as saving money to spend in the looming bust. Keynes sold his theory with waffle that would impress the politicians unfortunately the politicians just took the waffle and forgot the key bits.

Although todays psuedo Keynesians completely ignore the fact there has been a bubble. What's true is you can't spend your way out of a bubble collapse.

For those who haven't seen either video.

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Never thought I'd see this on Pravda

Keynes v Hayek

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14366054

and

US debt crisis turns focus on yuan as reserve currency

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14370788

Is it time to educate the masses that the west is going down and that the experiment in futility is coming to an end.

..think positive ...mandarin is on the way up ....start learning it.... :rolleyes:

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Since when has Keynsian economics mean't thowing a ton of printed dosh at banksters (and their molls) to blow on "get rich quick schemes?"

Was speaking to a yank the other night, apparently O'Bama tried the New Deal thing (new roads, infrastructure) but the money went to the States and was blown on "welfare babies." :blink:

£11BN computer system anyone? Still I'm sure it paid a few contractors mortgages.

Edited by John Steed

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"Because the European (westerner) does not know his own unconscious, he does not understand the East and projects it into everything he fears and despises in himself.”

/\

This is coming home to roost.

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"Because the European (westerner) does not know his own unconscious, he does not understand the East and projects it into everything he fears and despises in himself.”

/\

This is coming home to roost.

...many westerners have worked successfully in the east and retired there.... :rolleyes:

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...many westerners have worked successfully in the east and retired there.... :rolleyes:

I'm sure that's true, for a minority,

But whilst an unquestioning critical mass are 'happy' to be led by the criminally psychotic, the west will continue fighting through it's decline.

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Many of the schools are now teaching it. :rolleyes:

That is the first of your 12389 posts that I've ever seen without a ;) at the end! Is a name change in order? Roll-eye-ie...?

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Never thought I'd see this on Pravda

Keynes v Hayek

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14366054

and

US debt crisis turns focus on yuan as reserve currency

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-14370788

Is it time to educate the masses that the west is going down and that the experiment in futility is coming to an end.

Good old Friedrich

Friedrich August Hayek - described as Jewish in a number of sources

What Keynes thought of the Jewish in private .. ...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/' rel="external nofollow">

Damian Thompson is Editor of Telegraph Blogs and a leader

writer for the Daily Telegraph. He was once described by The Church

Times as a "blood-crazed ferret". He is on Twitter as HolySmoke.

John Maynard Keynes on 'repulsive', 'impure', 'ugly' Jews

By Damian Thompson

Religion

Last updated: January 21st, 2009

Did you know that John Maynard Keynes was a venomous anti-Semite who could have given Richard Wagner a run for his money? Me neither. Yet the evidence has been out there for decades. Here are a couple of extracts from his writings, courtesy of Chris Dillow via Clive Davis's Spectator blog:

[Jews] have in them deep-rooted instincts that are antagonistic and therefore repulsive to the European, and their presence among us is a living example of the insurmountable difficulties that exist in merging race characteristics, in making cats love dogs …

It is not agreeable to see civilization so under the ugly thumbs of its impure Jews who have all the money and the power and brains.

If Keynes was an intellectual hero of the Right, rather than the Left, do you think those quotes would be so little known?

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Since when has Keynsian economics mean't thowing a ton of printed dosh at banksters (and their molls) to blow on "get rich quick schemes?"

Was speaking to a yank the other night, apparently O'Bama tried the New Deal thing (new roads, infrastructure) but the money went to the States and was blown on "welfare babies." :blink:

£11BN computer system anyone? Still I'm sure it paid a few contractors mortgages.

They all got a gun thrown in too!

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I was at it. Don't get too excited. Its a bit of fun but it'll achieve precisely what I have in my pocket right now. It was good to be there but they didn't listen to us and vice versa.

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..think positive ...mandarin is on the way up ....start learning it.... :rolleyes:

Many of the schools are now teaching it. :rolleyes:

Does it count as part of your 5 a day? :unsure:

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I was at it. Don't get too excited. Its a bit of fun but it'll achieve precisely what I have in my pocket right now. It was good to be there but they didn't listen to us and vice versa.

I'm enjoying it so far because the Keynes supporters are, just as I suspected, as thick as shite.

In particular I loved the way the Keynesians always say "we are where we are, what should we do". The answer was you shouldn't have done it and now we are screwed. Keynesians don't seem to see this as relevant. I think this is like driving a car to a cliff at 80mph with a stopping distance of 60ft. At 20ft from the edge, at 80mph, a Keynesian would say "I wish we weren't where we are but now I need help". The laws of physics state that at this point you are screwed, no matter how sorry you are, you are going to experience some pain.

This "forward looking" reasoning of Keynsians is both stupid and infuriating. It's like having a debate with a child, who refuses to accept that we live in a world of cause and effect played out over the long-term.

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I'm enjoying it so far because the Keynes supporters are, just as I suspected, as thick as shite.

In particular I loved the way the Keynesians always say "we are where we are, what should we do". The answer was you shouldn't have done it and now we are screwed. Keynesians don't seem to see this as relevant. I think this is like driving a car to a cliff at 80mph with a stopping distance of 60ft. At 20ft from the edge, at 80mph, a Keynesian would say "I wish we weren't where we are but now I need help". The laws of physics state that at this point you are screwed, no matter how sorry you are, you are going to experience some pain.

This "forward looking" reasoning of Keynsians is both stupid and infuriating. It's like having a debate with a child, who refuses to accept that we live in a world of cause and effect played out over the long-term.

To follow up on my own post, Lord Robert Skidelsky must be intelligent given his background, but he really did get squashed there. Before I went to his Wikipedia page I was guessing he was some inbred toff. I guess he just found himself supporting an untenable position.

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Good old Friedrich

Friedrich August Hayek - described as Jewish in a number of sources

What Keynes thought of the Jewish in private .. ...

Keynes' views on Jews are a bit off topic, but in the passage where he mentions that, "It is not agreeable to see civilization so under the ugly thumbs of its impure Jews who have all the money and the power and brains." it was immediately preceded by:

"He [Einstein] was the nicest, and the only talented person I saw in all Berlin, except perhaps old Fuerstenberg, the banker Lydia liked so much, and Kurt Singer, two foot by five, the mystical economist from Hamburg. And he was a Jew; and so was Fuerstenberg and so was Singer. And my dear Melchior is Jew too."

I am no apologiest for racism, but Keynes clearly held and repeated some not uncommon views of the era, but was unable to reconcile his broad view of the race with the individuals that he actually met, whom he clearly liked and admired.

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I am no apologiest for racism, but Keynes clearly held and repeated some not uncommon views of the era, but was unable to reconcile his broad view of the race with the individuals that he actually met, whom he clearly liked and admired.

Wasn't averse to having sex with them either:

"16-year-old under Etna" and "Lift boy of Vauxhall" in 1911, for instance, and "Jew boy," in 1912.

From one of the sex diaries of Keynes.

Edited by John Steed

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I missed this on the wireless.

But isn't this missing the point? There's nothing preventing both Keynes and Hayek being right in their respective contexts. It's our leaders doing stupid things in Keynes's name who are the problem.

China had a very short burst of Keynesian stimulus when the crisis hit. Unlike us, they were in a position to do it, with their vast surplus. Wasn't long before they were booming again and had to turn the stimulus into reverse - which is (or should be) the purpose of it.

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I missed this on the wireless.

But isn't this missing the point? There's nothing preventing both Keynes and Hayek being right in their respective contexts. It's our leaders doing stupid things in Keynes's name who are the problem.

China had a very short burst of Keynesian stimulus when the crisis hit. Unlike us, they were in a position to do it, with their vast surplus. Wasn't long before they were booming again and had to turn the stimulus into reverse - which is (or should be) the purpose of it.

Did any of the Keynes supporters actually advocate running a budget surplus during the boom? Will listen to it tomorrow.

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Did any of the Keynes supporters actually advocate running a budget surplus during the boom? Will listen to it tomorrow.

Gordon did. Remember balance the budget over the economic cycle?

Trouble is, he was convinced the economy was a bit sluggish all the time, and just needed a bit more stimulus to boom, whereupon he could start saving ...

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Gordon did. Remember balance the budget over the economic cycle?

Trouble is, he was convinced the economy was a bit sluggish all the time, and just needed a bit more stimulus to boom, whereupon he could start saving ...

Clearly the economy was sluggish, all the inflation was in house prices, which could safely be ignored.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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