Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Sign in to follow this  
newbonic

Whitby Property Market - How's It Doing?

Recommended Posts

We were in Whitby last week on hol last week for the first time in a couple of years. We stayed on the West Cliff not far from the whale bones and I was struck by the small forests of 'for sale' signs in what must be prime tourist rental areas. The biggest local EA seems to be Astins who were advertising stuff like 2 bed flats for 170k.

Anybody on here live in Whitby or nearby who knows what the state of the market is? It looks like it's teetering to me e.g. too many overpriced flats probably being unloaded by over leverage BTLers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We were in Whitby last week on hol last week for the first time in a couple of years. We stayed on the West Cliff not far from the whale bones and I was struck by the small forests of 'for sale' signs in what must be prime tourist rental areas. The biggest local EA seems to be Astins who were advertising stuff like 2 bed flats for 170k.

Anybody on here live in Whitby or nearby who knows what the state of the market is? It looks like it's teetering to me e.g. too many overpriced flats probably being unloaded by over leverage BTLers.

I live outside, Eskdale me.

I think the poster with the avatar doing the banana lives on West cliff/love lane somewhere. Caedmon him.

During my 40 years, Whitby has exhibited an extreme version of the UK holiday home/2nd homemarket - everyone piles in when things go good; everyone tries to exit when the economy tanks. The last time the property tide went out - 1980 - was grim - it took my make 5 years to sell his flat (89-94) making a grand loss of 40%

Uplike last time, there has been a huge increase in new builds - starting with the Whitehall (east side by the new bridge) to a scattering of conversions - the functional english building up chubb hill (peter karlick where are you now?), bizarre garage conversion near the swimming pool, the even place near the metropole, - berkley mansion? With a flat wierdly enough owned by the first person from whitby who i saw catching the properdee fever:

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/property/article1161770.ece

I remember her from school too.

A lot of 2nd home buying is based on being able to make money from uk trourism - but you cannot. Bit like the gold rush - you make money from selling picks and shovels to the 'eager'.

Also you have to factor in how badly Leeds is doing - and the place is absolutely tanking - acity built on BTL fianance (low end legal) whilst building a massive BTL base in itself.

Predictions -dropping ctax and putting business rates on holiday cottages. Why not ffs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....

Uplike last time, there has been a huge increase in new builds - starting with the Whitehall (east side by the new bridge) to a scattering of conversions - the functional english building up chubb hill (peter karlick where are you now?), bizarre garage conversion near the swimming pool, the even place near the metropole, - berkley mansion? With a flat wierdly enough owned by the first person from whitby who i saw catching the properdee fever:

http://property.time...icle1161770.ece

I remember her from school too.

......

Blimey, if she bought dozens of places for 50k and didn't get greedy she must have made a fortune.

The Whitby market does have the feel of one that's on the verge of plunging though - at least that's the gut feeling I had when I was there. Much easier to lose money there than to make it at the moment I reckon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blimey, if she bought dozens of places for 50k and didn't get greedy she must have made a fortune.

The Whitby market does have the feel of one that's on the verge of plunging though - at least that's the gut feeling I had when I was there. Much easier to lose money there than to make it at the moment I reckon.

like the Wilsons, it depends on her leverage - on what proportion of the portfolio was bought at high prices

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
to let out their flat in arglyy towers thing.

like the Wilsons, it depends on her leverage - on what proportion of the portfolio was bought at high prices

Hmm, I just noticed that her and/or partner have doubled up their stakes in propertay.

They have the 'La Maison' object de house place up Flowergate. Christ talk about p**ssing on your childhood. Years ago this used to be Blenkies, where I user to go and gawp at the trains + scalextrix. Now it sells posh twigs in vase - no kidding, just look in the window.

The blokes been running ads in the last few gazeete trying let out their flat in the newish build tower on argyll road. This used to be a holiday rental. Now they are looking for STT.

This summer's unsuprising story is the number of vacancies in holiday lets + BBs. Not suprising when you combine the fith crap summer in a row with the most insane oversupply of rentals/BBs. Why does every think they can run a holiday let or BB in the area???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We were in Whitby last week on hol last week for the first time in a couple of years. We stayed on the West Cliff not far from the whale bones and I was struck by the small forests of 'for sale' signs in what must be prime tourist rental areas. The biggest local EA seems to be Astins who were advertising stuff like 2 bed flats for 170k.

Anybody on here live in Whitby or nearby who knows what the state of the market is? It looks like it's teetering to me e.g. too many overpriced flats probably being unloaded by over leverage BTLers.

The Whitby holiday letting is very strong, i have one and its busy a lot of the time, 23k last year, £ 750 a week in peak all full and lots of 3 or 4 days even in winter, whitby is very busy all year round and many have multiple houses, its the strongest holiday spot in the north imo, most seem to have bought years ago and small cottages can still be had for 100k that will easily return 10% plus if you let it yourself via google or website and use it yourself if empty.

The prices to buy have come dowm from the peak but holiday rentals are still keeping them stronger than a lot of places

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Whitby holiday letting is very strong, i have one and its busy a lot of the time, 23k last year, £ 750 a week in peak all full and lots of 3 or 4 days even in winter, whitby is very busy all year round and many have multiple houses, its the strongest holiday spot in the north imo, most seem to have bought years ago and small cottages can still be had for 100k that will easily return 10% plus if you let it yourself via google or website and use it yourself if empty.

The prices to buy have come dowm from the peak but holiday rentals are still keeping them stronger than a lot of places

going off Sykes Cottages' website, for £750 a week peak season, that would be 7 bedrooms and good location

these seem to be in the 300-400k region on rightmove

making your 23k income, after say 2k knocked off for physical depreciation, 21k income on a 300-400k house:

5 to 7% yield, not including cost of your time and labour, considering you can get this yield for no effort on the FTSE, seems a no brainer to avoid

when you say you get a 23k income and then go on about 100k properties that will yield 10% but then your figures don't seem to add up,

please clarify if poss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so taking my figures (I am assuming the no response from Mich1 implies I may be right) - we need to consider another 2% or so risk premium for being so undiversified and illiquid - bringing net risk adjusted yield down to 3 to 5%, granted inflation adjusted, probably, over the long term

this is quite poor really, you need to up that yield 50 to 100% more or less to make it worthwhile in investment terms

so you need Whitby property prices to fall by 25 to 50% in order to achieve this, they are overpriced by that much]

thanks for the heads up Mich1, admit it, you don't understand basic maths

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so taking my figures (I am assuming the no response from Mich1 implies I may be right) - we need to consider another 2% or so risk premium for being so undiversified and illiquid - bringing net risk adjusted yield down to 3 to 5%, granted inflation adjusted, probably, over the long term

this is quite poor really, you need to up that yield 50 to 100% more or less to make it worthwhile in investment terms

so you need Whitby property prices to fall by 25 to 50% in order to achieve this, they are overpriced by that much]

thanks for the heads up Mich1, admit it, you don't understand basic maths

You just have to accept that someone is telling you like it is, you are guessing and know nothing about whitby or holiday rentals, You would really struggle to let a 7 bedroom cottage off peak, the market is best for 2 or 3 bedrooms cottages and you should try a website like www.shoreline-cottages.com who have quite a few,

Whitby is busy even in winter, all the peak seson periods are fully booked both the christmas week and new year week are always booked and the late deal market off season is very busy with 3 or 4 nights from £225 -£325.

you can use a holiday cottage yourself in a place that many have voted the best holiday destination, its a great place to relax and chill, its not all about the money

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You just have to accept that someone is telling you like it is,

no, you need to provide example properties that this applies to, otherwise you may well be making it up, as far as i can tell

saying something like 'well the money doesn't really matter' is simply playing further into my suspicions

(ps I love Whitby, been tyhere quite a few times)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no, you need to provide example properties that this applies to, otherwise you may well be making it up, as far as i can tell

saying something like 'well the money doesn't really matter' is simply playing further into my suspicions

(ps I love Whitby, been tyhere quite a few times)

No i dont need to provide any examples, have a look at the website i gave you, good money in holiday rental in the right place, that is what is holding whitby property prices up, the good holiday rental properties will always find a buyer, 23k a year rental for a 3 bed cottage takes some beating and thats without pushing it.

i pay 0.69 over base for the mortgage, happy days

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, my mum does 12K gross for 4 bedroom house in a much nicer place outside of Whitby. Its been known to sleep 12 - i'd recommend 10 max.

parking for 2 cars.

Using my valuation - her's is a bit ambitious - her yield is piss poor but it gives her something to do and there is no finance on the house.

IMHO you holiday are not viable with borrowed money. Best wait til a relative drops it and you inherit the house.

23K for a 3 bed cottage in whitby is bogus. A quick look at ingrid flute's website slaps down your numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, my mum does 12K gross for 4 bedroom house in a much nicer place outside of Whitby. Its been known to sleep 12 - i'd recommend 10 max.

parking for 2 cars.

Using my valuation - her's is a bit ambitious - her yield is piss poor but it gives her something to do and there is no finance on the house.

IMHO you holiday are not viable with borrowed money. Best wait til a relative drops it and you inherit the house.

23K for a 3 bed cottage in whitby is bogus. A quick look at ingrid flute's website slaps down your numbers.

You lot keep quoting not very good agents, i advised to look at a company shoreline-cottages that are doing very well, have very good holiday cottages of a very high standard, that is the standard required to do very well.

Most purchased years ago and you would need a good location and 4star to make the numbers work today but if the prices are slipping some of the clever owners will be buying them as they know the rental figures are strong, not me im not greedy...

A very small cottage was just sold in robin hoods bay just up the coast asking 180k went to best bids 7 offers and went for over 200k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so they are at investable prices:

small cottages can still be had for 100k that will easily return 10% plus if you let it yourself via google or website and use it yourself if empty.

oh no hang on a minute they're not:

Most purchased years ago and you would need a good location and 4star to make the numbers work today

so which is it? fair priced or overpriced?

or just making your numbers up based on a single good season, if that, some flimsy anecdotes, and no maths?

Edited by Si1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very small cottage was just sold in robin hoods bay just up the coast asking 180k went to best bids 7 offers and went for over 200k

so f***ing what?

how does this bear on the value in the Whitby property market?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so they are at investable prices:

oh no hang on a minute they're not:

so which is it? fair priced or overpriced?

or just making your numbers up based on a single good season, if that, some flimsy anecdotes, and no maths?

its always a good year in whitby, the sun always shines on us, you can tell when money starts coming in to the town, some fantastic new restaurants and bars, the moneys coming in its taking the rents even higher, how many repossesions has there been in whitby and how many come up for auction, very rare, i think allsop sold the last one years ago

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive lived in Whitby for nearly 3 years now and I'd say you're right OP. There definately seems to be a lot more up for sale than there was when I first arrived - also take a look at Sleights (A nice village about 2 miles out of Whitby) There are loads up for sale at the moment. Not seeing the price drops though. :angry:

Examples near me:

4 bedder semi house thats had a horrible extension up for 2yrs@ £200K. Never went Sold STC once, taken off market.

4 bed detatched. Up for £370K/£325K (kept flipping) for a couple of yrs. Went Sold STC 3/4 times now sold apparently a couple of months ago. Nowbody seems to be moving in though. dry.gif

Whitby is busy even in winter,

No its not, not even by half.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive lived in Whitby for nearly 3 years now and I'd say you're right OP.

Ahh an outsider. No wonder you went for West Cliff.

Folk week and the Bank Holiday w/e were very quite - just like the rest of this summer (and the one before that).

Unless you like folk music, folk week is a pain the ****. Half a pint in their stupid f**ing tin cup and a bag of chips and the typical folky is spent out.

I'm trying to track down info on the various new lot of holiday let agents. I'm racking my brain for one who was in the yorkshire post a few years ago.

Not sure if tis the shoreline cottage bloke or another. All I can remember is that he bought several properties to let out. As someone who used to have to organise 3 or 4 change overs - all on saturday between 11 + 2 - that's nuts. Holiday lets do not scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The last time I went to Whitby it reminded me of most of the English coast from Blackpool, Morecambe to Dover, Skegness, Brid. etc etc, the letting sector is kept alive by benefits claimants.

..... Festivals and gastro are the way forward.

We did a lot of body-boarding at Sandsend and went on fossil hunts with the kids etc. And went on walks in places like the Hole of Horcum and the north yorks moors. Not something you can do in Leeds etc. - a week long city break with kids is too horrendous a prospect to contemplate!

Whitby does have a few festivals already - the Regatta week and folk week and 2 goth weekends, plus we did find a few good restauraunts (see trip adviser reviews). Blackpool is dire - chav central, Morecambe haven't been there for years, never been to Dover other than to get on a ferry, Brid is definitely downmarket of Whitby (again, see tripadviser restauraunt reviews). Of all the resorts you listed Whitby is proably the only one we'd consider going to again for a hol next year.

As long as the holiday letters don't get greedy and start asking £600+ for half decent apartments, which I have seen signs of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whitby's lovely, but this loveliness, for the most part, does not make it an exception from basic investment criteria - overpriced is overpriced

i suspect the fall of the value of the £ has helped it over past 3 years, a lot, but then again I doubt this situation will last forever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whitby's lovely, but this loveliness, for the most part, does not make it an exception from basic investment criteria - overpriced is overpriced

i suspect the fall of the value of the £ has helped it over past 3 years, a lot, but then again I doubt this situation will last forever

True. The flat we stayed in (2 bedder on west cliff) was up for sale and wouldn't be a holiday let next year. It was up for about 175k I think. I'm guessing that this is about 8 or 9 times local average wage for what could be a starter home. If you pay that for a £500 a week holiday let then it's going to have to have a bl00dy high occupancy rate to make it worth while. As mentioned above; I reckon it's much easier to lose money on the property market in Whitby than make it right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whitby's lovely, but this loveliness, for the most part, does not make it an exception from basic investment criteria - overpriced is overpriced

i suspect the fall of the value of the £ has helped it over past 3 years, a lot, but then again I doubt this situation will last forever

You rarely see foriegners in Whitby.

Wierdly there were a noticable number of asians around this summer.

Not sure where they were from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True. The flat we stayed in (2 bedder on west cliff) was up for sale and wouldn't be a holiday let next year. It was up for about 175k I think. I'm guessing that this is about 8 or 9 times local average wage for what could be a starter home. If you pay that for a £500 a week holiday let then it's going to have to have a bl00dy high occupancy rate to make it worth while. As mentioned above; I reckon it's much easier to lose money on the property market in Whitby than make it right now.

The average wage in Whitby is about 19K.

50% of households in Scarborough get the majority of their income from benefits.

Go figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The average wage in Whitby is about 19K.

50% of households in Scarborough get the majority of their income from benefits.

Go figure.

In which case 175/19 = 9.2 x average income! Classic and massive bubble territory. Not surprised the owners are trying to unload it while they can (not that it's sold yet).

AA Gill in the Sunday Times described Scarboro as 'grim and dank' or similar a few weeks ago.

He gave a glowing review to the Magpie takeaway as the classic 'eating of fish n chips by the seaside experience' though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 343 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.