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The President Surrenders

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/opinion/the-president-surrenders-on-debt-ceiling.html?_r=1&hp

Start with the economics. We currently have a deeply depressed economy. We will almost certainly continue to have a depressed economy all through next year. And we will probably have a depressed economy through 2013 as well, if not beyond.

The worst thing you can do in these circumstances is slash government spending, since that will depress the economy even further. Pay no attention to those who invoke the confidence fairy, claiming that tough action on the budget will reassure businesses and consumers, leading them to spend more. It doesn’t work that way, a fact confirmed by many studies of the historical record.

Indeed, slashing spending while the economy is depressed won’t even help the budget situation much, and might well make it worse. On one side, interest rates on federal borrowing are currently very low, so spending cuts now will do little to reduce future interest costs. On the other side, making the economy weaker now will also hurt its long-run prospects, which will in turn reduce future revenue. So those demanding spending cuts now are like medieval doctors who treated the sick by bleeding them, and thereby made them even sicker.

Clearly he sees no bubble, the economy can grow perpetually all you need to do is just keep spending.

No bust allowed in the new economic paradigm the elites have created.

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Even though they aren't actually properly cutting anything - just not spending as much as they said they would - it is pretty sick how it is the poorest who are having their help cut and there are no tax rises on the richest.

Hedge fund billionaires pay 15% tax compared to a 35% rate for secretaries - that cannot be fair.

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Even though they aren't actually properly cutting anything - just not spending as much as they said they would - it is pretty sick how it is the poorest who are having their help cut and there are no tax rises on the richest.

Hedge fund billionaires pay 15% tax compared to a 35% rate for secretaries - that cannot be fair.

You're dead right!

let's cut the secretary's tax to 15% as well. That would be the fair thing to do.

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Even though they aren't actually properly cutting anything - just not spending as much as they said they would - it is pretty sick how it is the poorest who are having their help cut and there are no tax rises on the richest.

Hedge fund billionaires pay 15% tax compared to a 35% rate for secretaries - that cannot be fair.

Agreed.

Any tax rate over 15% is immoral and unfair.

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They still, after all this time, arent able to tell the difference between 'growth' and 'inflation'

Krugman should be locked up in a padded room until he can discern between the two.

Maybe the difference between breathing normally and having a compressor hose rammed down his neck would be a suitable real world example.

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I know - who needs roads, hospitals and public education.

we could easily pay for all of those with a 15% income tax.

take a look at what govt actually spends money on FFS

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Even though they aren't actually properly cutting anything - just not spending as much as they said they would - it is pretty sick how it is the poorest who are having their help cut and there are no tax rises on the richest.

Hedge fund billionaires pay 15% tax compared to a 35% rate for secretaries - that cannot be fair.

Forget 15% to 35% as regressive.

Whats our council tax work out at compared to asset values.

Own a £10k terrace in Burnley, thats £1000 council tax (10%)

Own the £75million Updown court in Windlesham, thats £4000 council tax (0.0005%)

How about charging 10% council tax on all homes valued above £1million?

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I know - who needs roads, hospitals and public education.

HK happens to have a top rate tax of 16.5% and yet strangely they manage to have roads, hospitals and public education and MORE police per capita than us.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/opinion/the-president-surrenders-on-debt-ceiling.html?_r=1&hp

Clearly he sees no bubble, the economy can grow perpetually all you need to do is just keep spending.

No bust allowed in the new economic paradigm the elites have created.

Well, in fact it is true that cutting spending will depress an economy! BUT they have forgotten one simple fact about all this. The borrowing already done has gone beyond the point of no return. It canot be repaid. It will be inflated away or there will be default. It WAS the borrowing of far too much which caused the problem in the first place and borrowing more CANNOT fix it. Any fool knows that! If we just needed to borrow more and all would recover, then why has the USA found otherwise; the land of the most free and unregulated economy in the world with some pretty low tax rates too? If borrowing more will help the over borrowed nation, then Greece clearly has not been given enough of what it already plainly can never repay has it?

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Forget 15% to 35% as regressive.

Whats our council tax work out at compared to asset values.

Own a £10k terrace in Burnley, thats £1000 council tax (10%)

Own the £75million Updown court in Windlesham, thats £4000 council tax (0.0005%)

How about charging 10% council tax on all homes valued above £1million?

Good call, 5%-10% on the total value of the property..... that'll get people spooging for HPI won't it! . My house is worth 400K! .... council tax office... that'll be 40K in council tax please!

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Maybe the difference between breathing normally and having a compressor hose rammed down his neck would be a suitable real world example.

It is worrying.

When the top brass 'economists' think an economy where a house is worth $100k and a tin of beans costs $1 is depressed, simply because property speculators and bean hoarders bought in at twice that price.

But when a house is worth $200k and a tin of beans $2, things are booming.

Only guess what, earnings havent kept up.

On reflection, I'd prefer to be depressed.

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Hedge fund billionaires pay 15% tax compared to a 35% rate for secretaries - that cannot be fair.

Were it in any general sense true, it would not be fair. The reality of course is very different. A 'secretary' earning 379,000 per year would indeed pay 35% in federal taxes (+ state taxes in some states) and a hedge fund manager who earned all of their income as long term capital gains (assets held for more than a year) would pay 15% federal taxes. Oh, and don't forget that in New York State, where most hedge fund managers live and work, capital gains are taxed as normal income anyway. But, hey, don't let the facts get in the way of a good lefty whinge about the unfairness of life.

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Well, in fact it is true that cutting spending will depress an economy! BUT they have forgotten one simple fact about all this. The borrowing already done has gone beyond the point of no return. It canot be repaid. It will be inflated away or there will be default. It WAS the borrowing of far too much which caused the problem in the first place and borrowing more CANNOT fix it. Any fool knows that! If we just needed to borrow more and all would recover, then why has the USA found otherwise; the land of the most free and unregulated economy in the world with some pretty low tax rates too? If borrowing more will help the over borrowed nation, then Greece clearly has not been given enough of what it already plainly can never repay has it?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/05/greek-end-game/

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/21/1937-1937-1937/

1937! 1937! 1937!

The Telegraph has a leaked draft of the eurozone rescue plan for Greece. The financial engineering is Rube Goldbergish and unconvincing. But here’s what leaped out at me:

9. All euro area Member States will adhere strictly to the agreed fiscal targets, improve competitiveness and address macro-economic imbalances. Deficits in all countries except those under a programme will be brought below 3% by 2013 at the latest.

OK, so we’re going to demand harsh austerity in the debt-crisis countries; and meanwhile, we’re also going to have austerity in the non-debt-crisis countries.

Plus, the ECB is raising rates.

So demand will be depressed in both crisis and non-crisis economies; this will lead to a vigorous recovery through … what?

The Serious People are determined to destroy all the advanced economies in the name of prudence.

:blink:

Whereas the sane plan is to create more debt.

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It is worrying.

When the top brass 'economists' think an economy where a house is worth $100k and a tin of beans costs $1 is depressed, simply because property speculators and bean hoarders bought in at twice that price.

But when a house is worth $200k and a tin of beans $2, things are booming.

Only guess what, earnings havent kept up.

On reflection, I'd prefer to be depressed.

surely it all depends if you have money, ie a job.

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Even though they aren't actually properly cutting anything - just not spending as much as they said they would - it is pretty sick how it is the poorest who are having their help cut and there are no tax rises on the richest.

Hedge fund billionaires pay 15% tax compared to a 35% rate for secretaries - that cannot be fair.

If I earn $1000000 a year and pay 15% and you earn $50K and pay 35% , who makes the bigger contribution?

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The top rate of income tax in Russia is 13%...personally I'd rather pay more and live in the UK.

A 15% flat tax with no deductions, a NIT, a 15% VAT rate including all property transactions, a 1.5% property tax and a GBP 1.25 / litre fuel tax should be able to pay for a good social safety net delivered efficiently, healthcare, education, defence and all of our infrastructure needs.

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HK happens to have a top rate tax of 16.5% and yet strangely they manage to have roads, hospitals and public education and MORE police per capita than us.

The top rate of income tax in Russia is 13%...personally I'd rather pay more and live in the UK.

A 15% flat tax with no deductions, a NIT, a 15% VAT rate including all property transactions, a 1.5% property tax and a GBP 1.25 / litre fuel tax should be able to pay for a good social safety net delivered efficiently, healthcare, education, defence and all of our infrastructure needs.

Question - why don't people go live in Russia or HK?

If there's really nothing gained in exchange for paying UK taxes people can easily go where taxes are lower. Nobody is forcing them to stay in the UK.

For all the talk few actually go. The action of staying speaks louder than the empty words.

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All for lower taxes but only if brings with it lower incomes ......the trouble is the ones that earn the most want to pay the least tax.

Drop income, reduce taxes....increase employment and give more people the opportunity to pay more tax. ;)

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Forget 15% to 35% as regressive.

Whats our council tax work out at compared to asset values.

Own a £10k terrace in Burnley, thats £1000 council tax (10%)

Own the £75million Updown court in Windlesham, thats £4000 council tax (0.0005%)

How about charging 10% council tax on all homes valued above £1million?

Too right Sadman. Council tax should be replaced by a progressive land value tax, taking into account all the property and land that an individual owns. There should be a discount for registered couples and UK citizens. Non UK citizens should pay at a penal rate.

If you did that, could you give some examples of the revised tax bills in Burnley and Updown court?

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Good call, 5%-10% on the total value of the property..... that'll get people spooging for HPI won't it! . My house is worth 400K! .... council tax office... that'll be 40K in council tax please!

Yeah, great idea. Guy works for money, pays his tax, buys a house and you fine him a large % of the taxed income he used to buy it.

FFS, you lot are just so f*cked up.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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