Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
interestrateripoff

Chaos At The Tax Office: After Six Million Pay Wrong Tax, Mps Launch A Scathing Attack On 'ineptitude'

Recommended Posts

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020318/HMRC-blasted-MPs-customer-service-significant-damage-tax-system.html

Millions of taxpayers are suffering because of an extraordinary catalogue of ‘ineptitude’ by HM Revenue & Customs, MPs said last night.

A damning investigation revealed the tax office to be in deep crisis, with ‘endemic delays’ and staff so overstretched that more than half of calls go unanswered, and letters are ignored for months.

.....

The report found:

Many people had to wait as long as three months just to receive a reply to a letter

Just 48 per cent of telephone calls made to HMRC offices are answered

Those lucky enough to be answered are left on hold for minutes on end

The elderly are discriminated against because HMRC is transferring advice online, despite most pensioners not having access to the internet

Callers are regularly given wrong information by inexperienced call centre staff.

Sound familiar to anyone on here? I don't have much interaction with the tax people so have no idea what the system is like.

Although I bet the MP's will never make the connection that the staff are overstretched because of the insane length of the tax legislation.

It would be interesting to know how many of the poor answers to questions is due to the complexity of the tax code and really need a lawyer to answer after consulting the relevant sections.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After Six Million Pay Wrong Tax, MP'S Launch A Scathing Attack On 'ineptitude

Our MP's have no credibility whatsoever. No-one has any faith in parliament any more. MP's are an overpaid useless joke.

Edited by Milton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did they have to make it so complex?

Because to be in power you have to do something and making more and more laws gives the impression your actually doing something.

I'd rather have a govt that did nothing, I'm sure it would create far less problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did they have to make it so complex?

This.

The entire tax code ought to be explicable to a 12 yr old in 100 words.

Something like "Banksters pay 98% tax....." that leaves around 95 words for corporates and landowners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did they have to make it so complex?

Because, for some bizarre reason, human beings think the answer to a complex problem is more complexity...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This.

The entire tax code ought to be explicable to a 12 yr old in 100 words.

Something like "Banksters pay 98% tax....." that leaves around 95 words for corporates and landowners.

I think that Tax code would be something a 12 year old might come up with....

Frank tell me, are you unemployed ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've experienced their ineptitude first hand. Phoned them up about a letter they sent and was on hold for 2 hours. Then asked me some security questions which I answered exactly right then told me I had answered one wrong so they refused to talk to me and I had send send them a letter ( no emails allowed). I asked them which question I failed as I answered as best I could but they wouldn't tell.

Sent them a letter in the end and it took 3 months to get a reply and I've still not got the bottom of my problem! Bunch of useless bastards working for hmrc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it strange, reduce the HMRC work force from 107000 to 67000 in just 4 years, & people are surprised at the result :P

Clearly this farce needs outsourcing to the private sector asap so we can cut even more jobs and improve efficiency... :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new computer system called Connect literally connects into also sorts of other systems making it harder to lose or hide money from the tax man. Its not perfect as we see in the story but its also tracking down tax dodgers more effectively now. Just think of it like a computer system that joins up all the dots so to speak. It literally is a case of you can run but you cant hide even if you deal in cash.

http://www.federalmanagement.co.uk/news/tag/hmrc/

Also last year April 2010, HMRC can now apply penalties when recovering unpaid taxes, see schedule 41 of the Finance Act 2008.

Edit: I'll also add they have massive backlogs of post eg back in Jan this increased to 4months to process post in some instances, HMRC are working on 85% of self assesment being filed online for example and if you look at Australia when they introduced SA, it took them 10 years to get upto 50% of SA's being filed online.

So the sooner people do more online when they can the better, but they HMRC dont help themselves becuase you cant correspond with them via email which they need to do if they want to speed things up imo.

Either way they need to get more staff in to clear the postal backlog otherwise other areas of HMRC tasked with say debt collection are working on old data which is then causing waste and hassle for people. Its a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing in some instances.

The issue here is not compliance as HMRC are already committed to putting more staff and effort into that area. The problem is that ordinary taxpayers with no intention of dodging their liabilities get such a lousy service. As these are the bulk of HMRC 'customers' the department is failing its fundamental remit. As for the outsourcing of debt collection that is little more than a joke particularly as some of these companies are largely filled with ex tax collectors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The evidence shows that huge staff cuts don't produce a better service to the public.

Interesting that virtually all these cuts were by a Labour Govt. Staff numbers have increased slightly now as a couple of thousand of temporary workers have been employed to try & make a dent in the huge backlogs of work, created by cutting the staff who actually did the work.

Interesting that another 15000 staff cuts are planned in the next 3 1/2 years. Can't see this improving matters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did they have to make it so complex?

Three reasons:

1. Every special interest group wants its own exemptions so they don't have to pay tax.

2. The more complex it is, the more employees HMRC can hire. If they made the tax code simple then most of them would get laid off.

3. Similarly, if it was simple, you wouldn't need thousands of tax lawyers and accountants to figure out what you're supposed to pay.

There are huge vested interests in maintaining a tax system so complex that almost no-one understands it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your point 2 doesn't make sense, as HMRC will have shed over 50% of its staff in just 8 years by 2015 (ie. they're not increasing their workforce).

Imagine how many would be laid off if the tax return said:

"Box 1: how much money did you make last year?

Box 2: Calculate 15% of that total.

Now send that to us."

Every bureaucracy wants to increase its power, employee count and income. In the private sector companies try to prevent that because the cost of bloated internal bureaucracy hits their profits, but the public sector has no such restraint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Compliance is an issue, but they also need more staff to deal with the backlog and they need to allow email correspondance.

It really couldnt be simpler to solve.

Whoever made the decision to set up a call centre with temps who are little more than intelligent answermachines who have no access to the computer systems to look up and deal with cases as they did earlier on this year is just a mindless decision making automaton that is wasting taxpayers money. How bloody ironic is that!

Some of these whitehall big wigs need their heads knocking together to knock some sense into them!

But you know what I'm not surprised most are fat, slow and old.

Their very body chemistry by being fat disadvantages their ability to learn and think on their toes and make a correct decision, the chairman of HMRC on the BBC News24 channel is one such example, he could have done with losing some weight to help his brain function better, instead its almost certainly clogged up with arterial plaque.

_54350594_jex_1123088_de27-1.jpg

Clasper is not a career civil servant.

He spent most of his career in the private sector as did the Chief Finance Officer, the Chief Information Officer and most of the non executives on the current Board of HMRC.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/governance/chairman.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/governance/cfo.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/governance/phil-pavitt.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/governance/non-exec.htm#cobain

Edited by stormymonday_2011

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine how many would be laid off if the tax return said:

"Box 1: how much money did you make last year?

Box 2: Calculate 15% of that total.

Now send that to us."

Every bureaucracy wants to increase its power, employee count and income. In the private sector companies try to prevent that because the cost of bloated internal bureaucracy hits their profits, but the public sector has no such restraint.

Box 2: Calculate 15% of that total.if they did simplify to this it would be more like 30%, thats why its complicated! to hide the truth to the plebs. course to baqnkers

it would mean 10% with exemptions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it strange, reduce the HMRC work force from 107000 to 67000 in just 4 years, & people are surprised at the result :P

64 million people

64000 tax people

how many non paye tax payers each..?

PAye should not need intervention. The fact they can't get that right is more serious than staff numbers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Callers are regularly given wrong information by inexperienced call centre staff.

As a typical example of what's going wrong it's true for sure but that problem doesn't only exist at the Tax Office. In fact virtually all of the examples of Tax Office ineptitude described in the link can be regularly found within the general financial sector.

Regular wrong call centre information is totally endemic throughout the entire sector (of course virtually always "wrong" in favour of the financial sector) so the "ineptitude" is a far wider problem than just at the Tax Office as described by inept MPs.

Edited by billybong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why did they have to make it so complex?

Sometime around 1999 to 2002 I seem to recall some head guy at the Inland Revenue daring to complain about having to administer Family Tax Credits or Working Tax Credits; or whatever they're called. For the complexity and the workload on the Revenue. From what I can make out it never ran smoothly from the off and was vulnerable to fraud. I can't find the exact link though. Complaint about turning it from collection to benefit payer? It's just another item which adds complication to smooth revenue operations. .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/2773569/Brown-ties-up-UK-with-red-tape.html

Obviously another thing Conservatives would have done just the same as Labour. As they would have done the shakedown Windfall Tax too?.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.