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Just received my projected sum to pay off the mortgage it amounts to 78% of the required sum , knew it was never going to meet the target but wondered how this compares to others, My endowment was originally with Norwich Union now Aviva.

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Don't worry those paid to manage your endowment have helped themselves to a fair chunk of your cash to give you this privileged returned.

Out of interest have you ever tried to work out what you would have saved up without their help? Would it have been better invested in ISA's etc... over the term?

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Just received my projected sum to pay off the mortgage it amounts to 78% of the required sum , knew it was never going to meet the target but wondered how this compares to others, My endowment was originally with Norwich Union now Aviva.

How much has your house gone up?

Agree with IRRO. It's all gone on 2/3rds final salary exec pensions schemes, 7 series beemers, shiny glass offices in the smart end of town and junkets in the Far East.

Didn't they mention that in the bumpf?

Before signing on the dotted line it ought to be a requirement for policy holders to take a tour of the HQ and if you've never been inside an actuaries HQ I thoroughly recommend you do. George Best had the right approach.

Edited by Red Knight

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Don't worry those paid to manage your endowment have helped themselves to a fair chunk of your cash to give you this privileged returned.

Out of interest have you ever tried to work out what you would have saved up without their help? Would it have been better invested in ISA's etc... over the term?

The interest rates have been so variable over the term would be difficult to calculate (for me anyway) another point is the life cover enjoyed over the period. I remember like yesterday being sold the policy with the advisor saying you will get back around treble your payment required leaving you a nice tidy sum to enjoy , the tidy sum is a deficit which i wont enjoy :D

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How much has your house gone up?

It had gone up quite a lot but dropping like a 25 year endowment payment now :D (that is unless you believe the Nationwide)

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In a similar position myself.

My Scottish Life 25 endowment matures in November. PMV forceast to 'be' £18500, target amount £27000, so will only mature at around 2/3 of what it was supposed to.

My policy is with a bunch of crooks at Royal London who took over Scottish Life in 2001 when the policies surrender value was £12500 ( 'on' target) . Since then I have paid around £4800 into the policy - it's growth has therefore been just £1200!!!!! since (and remember this includes the 'benefit enhancements' of the take over!!!!!!)

(simple calculation: estimated value (£18500) less 2001 value (£12500) less contributions (£4800))

I have complained to both the FOS & have taken it up further with the FSA but frankly expect nothing but if you don't compain............

It's not just a problem of poor performance but frankly the lies in their communication. Each year us policy holders get a forecast showing three rates (I think 3% low 5% medium and 7% high) that our policy should grow at - and what have they actually achieved 0.5%!!!!!! The FSA & The FOS know that the providers will never acheive even the lowest of the forecast growth rates but still allow them to be used. The endowment policy issue is a Ponzi scheme that the authorities are allowing to be deflated at the expense of policy holders rather than doing the honest thing and popping it. (by winding up the insurance companies)

If you took out an endowment after 1988 you may have grounds for a mis selling claim but I don't (started policy Nov 1986).

Scottish Life screwed up in their communication about 15 years back so I have a 'guarantee' that an addittional £2500 will be credited to my policy on maturity

fortunately mortgage paid off years ago so it's just a lousy savings scheme

Edited by Leo Dumpmen

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Just had a 25 year Prudential endowment mature this week. (Funds actually went in the bank today) Policy was for £10000. It made £10600. I have a Friends Provident one for £16000 which matures next year but which is only expected to hit £9000. Prudential have been the best of the bunch, I think.

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It is a function of the long term fall in interest rates over the same period.

People who complain vociferously about their investment returns fail to appreciate the concomittant fall in servcing the mortgage debt, nor the associated rise in house prices.

Didn't read to me like complaining too loudly.

Now you've seen the endowment gap, how's your pension? Bearing in mind it'll only get worse as the demographic bulge retires, so anyone over fortysomething has an ever-worse deal to look forward to.

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Just had a 25 year Prudential endowment mature this week. (Funds actually went in the bank today) Policy was for £10000. It made £10600. I have a Friends Provident one for £16000 which matures next year but which is only expected to hit £9000. Prudential have been the best of the bunch, I think.

I have a fund in the Pru as well not as an endowment as such but a managed fund had it around 10 years now and its growing at around 6% pa so cant grumble at that in today's environment, only a few years ago the Pru was getting bad press everywhere seems now they have been the best pick of a rotten bunch of crooks who have gone unpunished

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You're right - which is why I didn't criticise the OP if you notice. I criticise those who just look to the investment side and whinge, without looking to the debt servicing and asset sides. They all go together.

How is my pension? Well the writing has been on the wall for some time. Equitable was the canary in the goldmine for me. I have taken huge hits over the years to withdraw from all company pensions, wife's endowment pensions blah blah blah so that I could manage the money and try and enhance returns in a SIPP.

Not an approach for everyone, but I find it better than seeing my pensions whittled away in true value each year.

The endowment companies shoud be wound down and dissolved. It is theft by any other name.

And you all have NEST to look forward to. Managed to claw my (private) pension out early, the spivs in charge of it had managed to add 6% to the capital I paid in over thirty years, and that managed to buy me an annuity where I'd have to live to 100 to get a return over investment. If i die before, they keep the balance, of course.

Thieves is too good a word for these "investment managers".

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The interest rates have been so variable over the term would be difficult to calculate (for me anyway) another point is the life cover enjoyed over the period. I remember like yesterday being sold the policy with the advisor saying you will get back around treble your payment required leaving you a nice tidy sum to enjoy , the tidy sum is a deficit which i wont enjoy :D

I realise it's complicated to do, I just wondered if you'd just taken a rough guess at what you've paid out per month, just to see what that totalled up to and whether it was greater or less than the 78% your getting back.

Although if the policy advisor said you'd get treble back surely that's miss-selling?

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My parents had an endowment mortgage and it came up 18k short they tried to complain about it being miss sold but the complaints only valid if the mortgage was taken out after 1992 or something (not sure of exact date). So if your mortage was taking out after the correct date then you should have grounds for complaint or at least the ability to make a complaint and get it investigated

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Prudential have been the best of the bunch, I think.

Same experience here.

25 year Prudential endowment taken out 1985 with target of £25,000.

Matured last August at £28,000.

Mis-sold, the lot of you.

The truth, of course, is I didn't do enough research and opted to use a commercial organisation's "superior knowledge" to look after something I should have taken responsibility for myself.

Looks as though I was lucky.

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I realise it's complicated to do, I just wondered if you'd just taken a rough guess at what you've paid out per month, just to see what that totalled up to and whether it was greater or less than the 78% your getting back.

Although if the policy advisor said you'd get treble back surely that's miss-selling?

I know your comment was not addressed to me but just for the record I've worked out the following (target amount £27000 premium £39.77 month - was low start though)

To policy end I will have paid in £11216 - to beat the target it should have grown by a shade under 7%. In 2000 it should have been' worth' £9500 but at that time it had a surrender value of £12000 so was easily on target. Between then and 2008 the return on asset share actually fell! - minus 13%. By calculation, including demutualisation policy enhancements the policy will have grown by an average of 2.5% pa since the take over. Inflation between 2000 & 2011 has been what 37% .

edited for spelling

Edited by Leo Dumpmen

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My parents had an endowment mortgage and it came up 18k short they tried to complain about it being miss sold but the complaints only valid if the mortgage was taken out after 1992 or something (not sure of exact date). So if your mortage was taking out after the correct date then you should have grounds for complaint or at least the ability to make a complaint and get it investigated

Well, I received compo for the Friends Prov endowment I took out in 1988. Me and the mrs, aged 23 and 22 respectively in 1988, were conned into taking the endowment by the nice, financial advisor lady in Charles Hawkins Estate Agents in Lowestoft High St when we told them we'd like to buy the semi-derelict house in their window that we looked around earlier.

I'd happily punch her in the face now.

I remember my mum being a bit concerned we had not opted for a straight forward repayment mortgage, but that seemed so 1960s!

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To be honest with profit low cost endowments were not that bad if they were started in the early 80s when the annual bonuses were good, not so good in later years...you got tax relief that was reduced a bit later but still more was invested than your outlay...any profits added could not be taken away, it included decreasing life cover and you got a terminal bonus if you could stick it to the end of the term.....a repayment mortgage together with an endowment, not a bad way of saving it could have been worse..... ;)

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I know your comment was not addressed to me but just for the record I've worked out the following (target amount £27000 premium £39.77 month - was low start though)

To policy end I will have paid in £11216 - to beat the target it should have grown by a shade under 7%. In 2000 it should have been' worth' £9500 but at that time it had a surrender value of £12000 so was easily on target. Between then and 2008 the return on asset share actually fell! - minus 13%. By calculation, including demutualisation policy enhancements the policy will have grown by an average of 2.5% pa since the take over. Inflation between 2000 & 2011 has been what 37% .

edited for spelling

Thanks for posting. At that rate 2.5% any savings investment would surely have given a greater return, plus there would have been no fingers in the pie?

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I realise it's complicated to do, I just wondered if you'd just taken a rough guess at what you've paid out per month, just to see what that totalled up to and whether it was greater or less than the 78% your getting back.

Although if the policy advisor said you'd get treble back surely that's miss-selling?

Yep tried to do this via a complaint but unfortunately he has passed away and his company was sold on then evidently wound up,

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Net payments paid in against tax free payout figure 260% increase over 25 years ÷ 25 = 10.4% plus a few shares thrown in to boot. ;)

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Thanks for posting. At that rate 2.5% any savings investment would surely have given a greater return, plus there would have been no fingers in the pie?

Exactly my point - which obviously cuts no ice with the regulator(s) (both FOS & FSA). I'd have £17280 if I'd surrendered in 2000 £12000 and put the money under the bed adding £40 each month! As it is my 'investment' (11 years of £12k plus a further £5300) has earned me just £1200. A great return. Not.

As I said in my earlier post:

"I have complained to both the FOS & have taken it up further with the FSA but frankly expect nothing but if you don't compain............

It's not just a problem of poor performance but frankly the lies in their communication. Each year us policy holders get a forecast showing three rates (I think 3% low 5% medium and 7% high) that our policy should grow at - and what have they actually achieved 0.5%!!!!!! The FSA & The FOS know that the providers will never acheive even the lowest of the forecast growth rates but still allow them to be used. The endowment policy issue is a Ponzi scheme that the authorities are allowing to be deflated at the expense of policy holders rather than doing the honest thing and popping it. (by winding up the insurance companies) "

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Well, I received compo for the Friends Prov endowment I took out in 1988. Me and the mrs, aged 23 and 22 respectively in 1988, were conned into taking the endowment by the nice, financial advisor lady in Charles Hawkins Estate Agents in Lowestoft High St when we told them we'd like to buy the semi-derelict house in their window that we looked around earlier.

I'd happily punch her in the face now.

I remember my mum being a bit concerned we had not opted for a straight forward repayment mortgage, but that seemed so 1960s!

Yes it was so 1960's at the time . I got talked into taking a few endowments out in the 80's but cancelled them during the first few years.

However my Dad took a £6k one out in 1979 that paid out £18k after ten years. I worked at the Halifax in the late 80's and saw some of the fantastic returns that people got when they came to the end of the 10/15 or 25 years terms they really were mindboggling good.

I think the endowment graze at the end of the 80's and into the 90's was based on selling people projections of past preformance that has now not been lived up to.

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Well, I received compo for the Friends Prov endowment I took out in 1988. Me and the mrs, aged 23 and 22 respectively in 1988, were conned into taking the endowment by the nice, financial advisor lady in Charles Hawkins Estate Agents in Lowestoft High St when we told them we'd like to buy the semi-derelict house in their window that we looked around earlier.

I'd happily punch her in the face now.

I remember my mum being a bit concerned we had not opted for a straight forward repayment mortgage, but that seemed so 1960s!

My parents recommended an endowment policy, as theirs had paid out handsomely!

Mine didn't do so well of course. However, I kept watch on it over the years and as the surrender value wasn't much worse than if I'd have put the money in a BS account or similar, I wasn't concerned. So in the early 2000's, when the letters telling me that the projected final amount would fall short of target, I was a little surprised.

I declined their suggestion to increase payments (to more than double what they were) and lodged a mis-selling complaint. Despite being told by the advisor concerned that the amount covered was guaranteed, this complaint was unsuccessful because the small print covered them. It basically said the amount would be covered if I agreed to pay whatever monthly payment they asked for!

At this point I decided it would be best to cash it in and use the money to pay of a chunk of the mortgage. It seems that something about this worried them for some reason, because out of the blue, a few months later, I received a letter offering a large sum of money if I agreed that I would take no further action against them. I of course accepted, as it made it a reasonably good investment in the end. I do occasionally wonder why they did this, however.

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I got proper creamed with an endowment with Abbey Life, when I got my first mortgage in 1992.

Even when there were loads of adverts on local radio for people who would buy your +12 year old endowment policy, as soon as I said it was with Abbey Life, they quickly hung up the phone and I swear they were giggling in the background. Apparently I'd bought one of the worst performers in the history of endowments... :)

Thankfully I got them for mis-selling as I was single when I bought the house, but the 3 grand I got back in compo, plus the couple of thousand surrender value meant I still didn't really break even.

Did get a canny new kitchen and a video projector with the cash though, so mustn't grumble...

XYY

(Er, actually, on reflection, I feel I really MUST grumble....Harumph, harumph!!!)

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My parents recommended an endowment policy, as theirs had paid out handsomely!

Mine didn't do so well of course. However, I kept watch on it over the years and as the surrender value wasn't much worse than if I'd have put the money in a BS account or similar, I wasn't concerned. So in the early 2000's, when the letters telling me that the projected final amount would fall short of target, I was a little surprised.

I declined their suggestion to increase payments (to more than double what they were) and lodged a mis-selling complaint. Despite being told by the advisor concerned that the amount covered was guaranteed, this complaint was unsuccessful because the small print covered them. It basically said the amount would be covered if I agreed to pay whatever monthly payment they asked for!

At this point I decided it would be best to cash it in and use the money to pay of a chunk of the mortgage. It seems that something about this worried them for some reason, because out of the blue, a few months later, I received a letter offering a large sum of money if I agreed that I would take no further action against them. I of course accepted, as it made it a reasonably good investment in the end. I do occasionally wonder why they did this, however.

Bloody hell! I reckon I must be the last man in the UK to have 3 endowments still running (including the one that just matured that I mentioned earlier). All add up to £37000 but will make between them around £30000. Fortunately, we've been paying the capital off the mortgage for the last 6 years because even someone as financially illiterate as me became suspicious of the dodgy maths.

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