scrappycocco Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 They printy printy stealing from you and when gold goes up they steal from you some more in the form of cgt don't they? I think the game is rigged for them to take every penny from you before your dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappycocco Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Scrappy...I've left an answer to your question on the Investment thread. Cheers Where? Is it the one about gold and fine art. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) I don't often call on a poster to explain himself... Busted.. I'm surprised you beat Bruce to the call. He must be losing his touch Edited July 24, 2011 by libspero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krackersdave Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) Mr. Cable is exactly right. Time to bypass the middle man, the banks, create our own money and spend it creatively. One of the big problems is the QE's I have seen, money was printed and then given to the banks. That is just dumb. Imagine if the money already printed had been spent on public infastructure, like nuclear power plants, mass public housing, highway overpasses, public parks and so on. Not only would it have put millions to work in real good jobs.. but it would have created more capital for our nation. Plus tons of opportunity for all the contractors in all those projects. And finally then all the contractors and workers would go out and spend the money. Instead nations basically printed money, gave it to the bankers, which the money vanished down a black hole.. or was used to do things like speculate on the price of oil. No - it would just have gone abroad in profits for foreign owned corporations, wages for imported workers and costs for imported materials..... Even IF some actually went real British workers they'd have just spunked it on imported shitty goods.... The result would have been the same.. Edited July 24, 2011 by Krackersdave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban_hymn Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Apart from electronic components, I think just about anything will be better than fiat currency as a store of wealth. I've got a batch of toy Matchbox cars (Mattel) bought for £1 each for example. One of the best performing items in my portfolio is a Roland Jupiter 8 analogue synthesizer. Bought for £800 in 2005 now they're going for about £3000+ on eBay. Shoulda bought more :0( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easy2012 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Mr. Cable is exactly right. Time to bypass the middle man, the banks, create our own money and spend it creatively. One of the big problems is the QE's I have seen, money was printed and then given to the banks. That is just dumb. Imagine if the money already printed had been spent on public infastructure, like nuclear power plants, mass public housing, highway overpasses, public parks and so on. Not only would it have put millions to work in real good jobs.. but it would have created more capital for our nation. Plus tons of opportunity for all the contractors in all those projects. And finally then all the contractors and workers would go out and spend the money. Instead nations basically printed money, gave it to the bankers, which the money vanished down a black hole.. or was used to do things like speculate on the price of oil. I think you got it right. But letting Cable and his team or the government (Tory or Labour) to spend money creatively is a tough call. Most likely, they will first spend the money paying the ibank for 'advice', and then consultants for a plan and eventually PFI firms to implement them - all at vastly inflated prices. If you haven't notice, government borrowing haven't quite come down despite the austerity and this is the first step of hyperinflation : inflation -> cost of running government goes up -> print more money -> loop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It has taken about a year for Cable to go from HPC poster boy to numpty. Well, he worked out there was too much debt before most people. Then he worked out that the debt was in excess of the ability to pay. Essentially, nobody can get their hands on enough money, fast enough. He can see that the attempts to increase velocity have failed, so the obvious answer is more money. And personally, I think he may be on the right lines with a focus on capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave New World Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Any further QE will just result in more inflation which is now doing the job increased IRs would do – ie erode the discretional spend of the zombie (Govt SMI, zirp) households. Whatever way they turn now it is the endgame of the last 3 or so years of limbo we have had. The cuts will keep on coming, wages will keep on the slide, jobs will be harder to create and banks are not looking like they are opening up the fuel for the housing market in the number of mortgage products open to indebted joe public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57percent Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It seems to me that the previous QE just added to inflation and allowed the banks to give out bonuses again. How's another round gonna help anyone? What's so wrong with a bit of deflation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timm Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It seems to me that the previous QE just added to inflation and allowed the banks to give out bonuses again. How's another round gonna help anyone? What's so wrong with a bit of deflation? That was exactly the problem. The banks should have retained those profits as capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Cable should direct the next round of QE at small exporting manufacturing businesses. This is the sector we need to target if we are to grow our way out of trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Cable should direct the next round of QE at small exporting manufacturing businesses. This is the sector we need to target if we are to grow our way out of trouble. You must be one of those Al Quaida terrorists or something.... You can only get QE money if you are in a position to bung money and or jobs back. LDV for instance went bust as they could not offer cush jobs and big brown envelopes of money to the politicos. Northern Rock could though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFlibble Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Some wise folks on here said that once they start printing they'll not be able to stop, for a long time I refused to believe it, not anymore, not for a long time now. The nutters seem hell-bent on printing us into oblivion. Since Osborne loves the idea of printed money then it is hard to see how the UK can get its house in order with the current government. Cameron said (before he was elected) printing leads to inflation, wonder what he thinks now... Cable is a tragic disappointment, so is Clegg, they both seem to have sold their soul for 30 pieces of Silver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Some wise folks on here said that once they start printing they'll not be able to stop, for a long time I refused to believe it, not anymore, not for a long time now. The nutters seem hell-bent on printing us into oblivion. Since Osborne loves the idea of printed money then it is hard to see how the UK can get its house in order with the current government. Cameron said (before he was elected) printing leads to inflation, wonder what he thinks now... Cable is a tragic disappointment, so is Clegg, they both seem to have sold their soul for 30 pieces of Silver... Was destined to be, surprised so many were taken in by them. Anyhoo, does Vince mean that we'll all be getting rebate cheques in election year as an imaginative form of QE? Seems like the only hope he's got of keeping his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trampa501 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Was destined to be, surprised so many were taken in by them. Anyhoo, does Vince mean that we'll all be getting rebate cheques in election year as an imaginative form of QE? Seems like the only hope he's got of keeping his job. Wasn't Clegg proposing giving everyone RBS shares a few weeks back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Cable should direct the next round of QE at small exporting manufacturing businesses. This is the sector we need to target if we are to grow our way out of trouble. Indeed, but one wonders how you could stuff, say, £100bn into small exporting manufacturing businesses. Equity stakes? export credits? capital incentives? I think it's correct that the BoE ought to influence banks lending in any event, as they used to do prior to the 80s but it'll take forever if they start now, and we don't have forever. Perhaps they can at least start, as others have said, and get the bigger money into infrastructure spending. Social housing program, trams, more efficient transport, energy etc. Anything but private BTL and 2bed exec flats. But the political point point here is Cable straying into monetary policy making on the hoof. Naughty boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Wasn't Clegg proposing giving everyone RBS shares a few weeks back? Where's the fun in that, what we need is election fever Nick, is what Vince may say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drac Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 September 2007................... Barclays capital had around £25 billion and there assets books were £1300-£1400 billion. RBS had around the same £25 billion and there asset books were £2000 billion. Northern Rock before it went down had £250 million and the asset books were £100 billion. QE..............Says it all really.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 "We they just haven't got a clue what to do". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Indeed, but one wonders how you could stuff, say, £100bn into small exporting manufacturing businesses. Equity stakes? export credits? capital incentives? I think it's correct that the BoE ought to influence banks lending in any event, as they used to do prior to the 80s but it'll take forever if they start now, and we don't have forever. Perhaps they can at least start, as others have said, and get the bigger money into infrastructure spending. Social housing program, trams, more efficient transport, energy etc. Anything but private BTL and 2bed exec flats. But the political point point here is Cable straying into monetary policy making on the hoof. Naughty boy. The problems would be firstly making sure that it didn't contravene any government support rules (not that it seems to stop anyone else) and secondly stopping every paper pusher and his dog managing to re-organise their businesses so their paper pushing qualifies as some sort of export manufacturing business. Probably do something retrospective, like every business that can produce international shipping invoices for >50% of their sales for FY 2009/10 gets their tax back on that year or for the next three years. Retrospective benefit is the way to beat the cheats. Otherwise as usual I could see the usual fanatastic schemes emerging such as companies shipping container loads of stuff round the world to their subsidaries so that they could claim they were exporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord D'arcy Pew Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) Deleted see below. Edited July 25, 2011 by Lord D'arcy Pew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord D'arcy Pew Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 FORD: How can you have money if none of you actually produce anything? It doesn’t grow on trees you know! MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT: You know If you would allow me to continue! CAPTAIN: Yes let him to continue. MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT: Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt leaves as legal tender, we have, of course all become immensely rich. FORD: No really? Really? CROWD MEMBERS: Yes, very good move… MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT: But, we have also run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability. Which means that I gather the current going rate has something like three major deciduous forests buying one ship’s peanut. So, um, in order to obviate this problem and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on an extensive defoliation campaign, and um, burn down all the forests. I think that’s a sensible move don’t you? MARKETING GIRL: That makes economic sense. [Murmurs of agreement from crowd] FORD: [Yells] You’re absolutely barmy! You’ve a bunch of raving nutters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappycocco Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) I just don't see how theft from savers and higher taxes to fund an unsustainable public sector will kick start sustainable growth. Labour's idea of increasing spending on the public sector to boost growth is to me similar to giving each person £100 cash, once they've spent it they're back to where we were. Edited July 25, 2011 by scrappycocco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drac Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Growth>Debt expansion>We are at peak debt>Either debt gets paid back or defaulted on>So more debt>So an increase in basemoney to buy back old debt so to create more debt>No growth, just all gone Japanese the pioneers of where we are heading! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyMe Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 If the bankprupt of england are going quantative shitting again better tighten my belt more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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