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jaydee

Safe Haven Savings Advice Sought

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Can anyone please help out with advice on the subject issue?

The premise I'm adopting here is that Sterling, the Euro and the US dollar is doomed - and if so what best to do?

Thought of buying gold/silver - but fear that it's too late - and if not too late - I will not be quick enough off the mark to sell before it eventually re-adjusts.

So considered the possibility of buying Norwegian Kroner and possibly the Australian dollar or swiss franc - if this reasoning is sound - the question becomes 'how best to do it' ? Trying to get full information on offshore bank accounts from the web is not too helpful - they generally want your details up front to apply - without fully disclosing if a particular currency is available and what interest rate would be earned and what the fees/commisons/spreads or other conditions would be.

Forex trading is attractive because it seems easier to implement - but I would wish to avoid buying on margin - to avoid the downside of leverage and to hopefully avoid any costs such as interest on borrowing while holding a currency for an extended period. But - I have no experience with forex trading and that might be a negative. If though it is a preferred choice - what would be a recommended company? - I understand different trading platforms are available and that some are easier to use than others and that charges vary.

Also - if the US dollar or Euro crashes it may cause a flight from even perceived safe currencies into commodities or hard assets of one sort or another - thus defeating the objective.

And if commodities are the way to go - which would be best and what vehicle would be best to purchase/sell them? Physical holding - except for precious metals would be impractical - but hands on the stuff does appeal if things really get out of hand - which I feel they might.

While there are many unknowns - any thoughts/comments would be very welcome.

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I would suggest British gold bullion sovereigns and high-end artwork.

sov5.jpg

sothebys1.jpg

Thank you for the suggestions. Is there a benefit in choosing sovereigns over other coins such as Krugerands? I take it you feel that gold has some way to run.

On high end art - sadly I would have no clue on values. Thanks again.

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My parents are in a similar position. They have finally listened to me although they missed the boat when I suggested CHF or gold a few years back.

So far they have transferred 20% of their liquid assets into NOK although it is a HSBC account bearing no interest, they have 40% in shares (mostly defensive stocks anyway) and rather worryingly 40% (£160k) sitting in sterling - I am going to look at anything Germany as a safe haven for this 40% unless there are better suggestions on this thread?

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Thank you for the suggestions. Is there a benefit in choosing sovereigns over other coins such as Krugerands? I take it you feel that gold has some way to run.

On high end art - sadly I would have no clue on values. Thanks again.

Yes, there are advantages by buying gold bullion sovereigns over krugerrands

I have some krugerrands, however I much prefer sovereigns for their size, history and for us in the U.K. they are exempt from Capital Gains Tax (CGT) when you come to sell. The CGT rules also cover Britannia gold and silver coins.

Here is a 2008 article from MoneyWeek which explains the benefits of buying sovereigns.

http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/precious-metals-and-gems/why-you-should-buy-british-gold-sovereigns-16088

Also I would like to mention when buying gold coins that you want to be buying bullion coins which are close to the spot price and not proof or numismatic coins, which are for collectors.

For values, here are some respected bullion dealers where you can see competitive prices online.

http://www.goldline.co.uk/bullionCoinsPage.page

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/

http://www.hattongardenmetals.com/buy-gold.aspx

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Can anyone please help out with advice on the subject issue?

The premise I'm adopting here is that Sterling, the Euro and the US dollar is doomed - and if so what best to do?

Thought of buying gold/silver - but fear that it's too late - and if not too late - I will not be quick enough off the mark to sell before it eventually re-adjusts.

So considered the possibility of buying Norwegian Kroner and possibly the Australian dollar or swiss franc - if this reasoning is sound - the question becomes 'how best to do it' ? Trying to get full information on offshore bank accounts from the web is not too helpful - they generally want your details up front to apply - without fully disclosing if a particular currency is available and what interest rate would be earned and what the fees/commisons/spreads or other conditions would be.

Forex trading is attractive because it seems easier to implement - but I would wish to avoid buying on margin - to avoid the downside of leverage and to hopefully avoid any costs such as interest on borrowing while holding a currency for an extended period. But - I have no experience with forex trading and that might be a negative. If though it is a preferred choice - what would be a recommended company? - I understand different trading platforms are available and that some are easier to use than others and that charges vary.

Also - if the US dollar or Euro crashes it may cause a flight from even perceived safe currencies into commodities or hard assets of one sort or another - thus defeating the objective.

And if commodities are the way to go - which would be best and what vehicle would be best to purchase/sell them? Physical holding - except for precious metals would be impractical - but hands on the stuff does appeal if things really get out of hand - which I feel they might.

While there are many unknowns - any thoughts/comments would be very welcome.

I believe the USD and the euro are doomed, but I have faith that the pound will come back. I am an American and I live in the US so maybe I see things from a different perspective, or maybe I am just hoping that the UK will survive this mess because I like the UK so much. After all, the UK was smart enough to stay out of the euro, so at least it has that going for it.

Forget forex trading for two reasons. First, you do not understand it, and any great investor (Warren Buffet, Peter Lynch and hundreds of others) will tell you not to invest in things you do not understand. The same advice applies to buying art. Second, you say you want to buy currencies without margin to reduce risk and costs if you decide to hold for an extended period of time. In that case, don't do forex; forex is for fast speculation.

If you want to invest in a currency or two, either buy and hold the currency itself in a bank/brokerage account, or buy an ETF on a major stock exchange for that currency. On the NYSE there are ETF's for the USD, the Euro, etc. that mimic the movements in their respective currencies.

As far as purchasing metals such as gold, one may purchase gold in a certificate form in a stockbrokerage account. If you decide on gold coins or bullion, you will need to rent a safe deposit box for storage. Here is a place in Vienna, Austria you might be interested in: www.dassafe.com Physical holding is impractical for anything valuable. Did you read about the man in Canada who recently had his entire life savings of about $750,000 in gold stolen from his house?

One poster in this thread said he was going to buy anything in Germany. Personally, I like that idea because I am bullish on Germany, and Germany, like the UK and other western countries, is a safe place to buy real estate. However, be careful in buying any foreign real estate. In the best case scenario you will never get the yield promised by the realtor, and in the worst case scenario you will get scammed and receive nothing for your money.

Good luck.

Edited by james7

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My parents are in a similar position. They have finally listened to me although they missed the boat when I suggested CHF or gold a few years back.

So far they have transferred 20% of their liquid assets into NOK although it is a HSBC account bearing no interest, they have 40% in shares (mostly defensive stocks anyway) and rather worryingly 40% (£160k) sitting in sterling - I am going to look at anything Germany as a safe haven for this 40% unless there are better suggestions on this thread?

Thanks for that. HSBC seems the most transparent and straightforward for currency accounts.

Also looked into the Renminbi via a UK bank of China account - this is increasingly attractive with Chinas move to set up a Pan Asian Gold Exchange (PAGE) - encouraging its citizens to buy gold against which they may withdraw paper Renminbi - some seem to think this is a very significant step - in effect introducing the seed of a gold standard and perhaps in time establishing the Renminbi as the new global reserve currency. Many argue that China is on the hook of US consumption - while others contend that Chinas exports only account for 10% of GDP - the other 90% occurring in their home markets.

In all the 'standard' savings account scenarios though there is the seemingly unavoidable high commission spread - which wouldn't be the case with forex - but of course there are other risks to contend with in that case. There is no interest available on the CHf , the Renminbi or the NKr - but 4.5% is available on an HSBC Australian dollar account. The other more drastic option I have been toying with to access foreign currency - is property (Norway) - to hopefully take advantage of any sterling depreciation against the Kroner and at the same time have a hard - if illiquid - asset - but local taxes may be a sting in the tail.

The other UK possibility is agricultural land - but many consider it over priced at around £10K/acre - but I doubt very much that it would ever be taxed - given the UK class structure. My feeling on stocks is that they are due for another crash - the gains since the slump of 2008 are based more on institutions looking for a home for central bank money printing than on underlying performance - though the defensives you speak of may be spared. Your thoughts on Germany are interesting - it is the brightest eurozone light. Thanks again.

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Yes, there are advantages by buying gold bullion sovereigns over krugerrands

I have some krugerrands, however I much prefer sovereigns for their size, history and for us in the U.K. they are exempt from Capital Gains Tax (CGT) when you come to sell. The CGT rules also cover Britannia gold and silver coins.

Here is a 2008 article from MoneyWeek which explains the benefits of buying sovereigns.

http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/precious-metals-and-gems/why-you-should-buy-british-gold-sovereigns-16088

Also I would like to mention when buying gold coins that you want to be buying bullion coins which are close to the spot price and not proof or numismatic coins, which are for collectors.

For values, here are some respected bullion dealers where you can see competitive prices online.

http://www.goldline.co.uk/bullionCoinsPage.page

http://www.coininvestdirect.com/

http://www.hattongardenmetals.com/buy-gold.aspx

Thanks very much for the helpful advice and links. Heard on TV yesterday that the 'right' price for gold at this time is $2,500/Oz - and - as the economic circumstances continue to degrade the only way is up. Also - that the central banks are not coming clean on what their physical reserves are - ie they have a lot less than they pretend - the implication being that they will be unable to resist the upward price trend by selling. Given that central banks are signalling no increase in interest rates for years (2013 for the UK) and demonstrate a preference for more than modest inflation - it may be safe to buy - even at $1,630/Oz - but as we know they are collective strangers to the truth - as the BoE's false commitment to a 2% infation target shows. Thanks again.

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I believe the USD and the euro are doomed, but I have faith that the pound will come back. I am an American and I live in the US so maybe I see things from a different perspective, or maybe I am just hoping that the UK will survive this mess because I like the UK so much. After all, the UK was smart enough to stay out of the euro, so at least it has that going for it.

Forget forex trading for two reasons. First, you do not understand it, and any great investor (Warren Buffet, Peter Lynch and hundreds of others) will tell you not to invest in things you do not understand. The same advice applies to buying art. Second, you say you want to buy currencies without margin to reduce risk and costs if you decide to hold for an extended period of time. In that case, don't do forex; forex is for fast speculation.

If you want to invest in a currency or two, either buy and hold the currency itself in a bank/brokerage account, or buy an ETF on a major stock exchange for that currency. On the NYSE there are ETF's for the USD, the Euro, etc. that mimic the movements in their respective currencies.

As far as purchasing metals such as gold, one may purchase gold in a certificate form in a stockbrokerage account. If you decide on gold coins or bullion, you will need to rent a safe deposit box for storage. Here is a place in Vienna, Austria you might be interested in: www.dassafe.com Physical holding is impractical for anything valuable. Did you read about the man in Canada who recently had his entire life savings of about $750,000 in gold stolen from his house?

One poster in this thread said he was going to buy anything in Germany. Personally, I like that idea because I am bullish on Germany, and Germany, like the UK and other western countries, is a safe place to buy real estate. However, be careful in buying any foreign real estate. In the best case scenario you will never get the yield promised by the realtor, and in the worst case scenario you will get scammed and receive nothing for your money.

Good luck.

Thanks for your perspective James - interesting to see how the UK is viewed from 'across the pond'. The UK was described today by a eurozone commentator as being in a worse state than the US and the eurozone - and - as the 'canary in the coal mine'. Our previous great leader sold off the UK's reserves of gold at $250/ Oz - after pre-announcing it of course - the only sensible thing to do!! No - I didn't hear about the canadian that was robbed - a very sobering story - there seems always to be a balance of risk. I once knew a jewellery maker - who worked from home and kept his gold there - quite openly told me - "no one knows where I keep it" - scary these days with the escalation in crime and the lengths robbers may go to get what they want. I've thought about the gold certificate option - but after listening to the excellent 'Keiser Report' decided it was too risky - apparently the certificate/gold ratio is leveraged at around a 100 times - ie they do not have the physical stuff to back it up - only holding 1 Oz for every 100 Oz's issued in paper. So I think the physical holding is better in case of a major crash - storage issues aside of course; the sovereigns suggested earlier look a good option. On property - some US locations have really tanked - and to my eyes seem excellent value - especially compared to the UK - read that foreign buyers are snapping up bargains in parts of Florida - sad though for the poor souls that were evicted or forced to walk away.

Looks like all options these days are either a 'rock or a hard place' - plusses and minuses abound - it seems the old adage 'it's the early bird that catches the worm' applies in spades - especially with regard to gold - counterbalanced somewhat by 'better late than never'. Take care over there!

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I notice HSBC offshore don't seem to pay interest on savings accounts in exotic currencies like Swiss Francs. Is there an offshore bank that does, or is that expecting too much?

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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