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My First Purchases Arrived This Week

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Well, my first purchases arrived this week and i thought i would post an update.

Firstly, many thanks for those who gave me advice on my 'Newbie' thread and just general advice given out on this forum, it has proven invaluable.

As my first ever purchase of PMs, I've gone for physical Gold in the form of 10 * 2011 Sovereigns and 2 * 2011 Britannias. The former came from Gold Line (Bairds) and the latter came from Coin Invest Direct. Both very prompt and happy with my experience.

It was a big moment for me hitting that 'Buy' button but i know the reasons and regardless of any drops in the price, i'm in it for the long haul. Since my purchase last week, based on the price right now, the price of the gold in my possession has gone up about £90. I'm not so delusional to think that i could sell back those coins and make that profit, but in terms of the price per ounce, that's the value.

I'm very soon going to go for my second purchase, i'm tempted to just go for the same again i.e. 10 * 2011 Sovereigns and 2 * 2011 Britannias, possibly from the same dealers but will shop around. But I would appreciate any advice on this. Soon i'll be at about 20% of my savings in Gold, i'm not sure what to do after this, part of me is thinking i may go as far as 50% in but i realise this is a risky play, but i don't see how cash could be less risk?! I'll probably stick the rest in a NS&I bond once my current ISA period runs out...

Also a curious question, why does the colour of the Sovereigns look different to the colour of the Britannia? The latter is more like the yellow gold we know. Presumably it's something to do with the mix in the coin but just couldn't find the exact reason online.

Thanks again

BigRon

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Also a curious question, why does the colour of the Sovereigns look different to the colour of the Britannia? The latter is more like the yellow gold we know. Presumably it's something to do with the mix in the coin but just couldn't find the exact reason online.

Thanks again

BigRon

Sovereigns are 22/24 gold and 2/24 copper

Britannias are 22/24 gold and 2/24 silver

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Sovereigns are 22/24 gold and 2/24 copper

Britannias are 22/24 gold and 2/24 silver

Just to add to that, there are some early Britannias which are a gold copper alloy/red gold (1987 to 1989).

1987 Britannia

1987britrm.jpg

1990 Britannia

1292330976-1990_Britannia_One_Hundred_Pound_Gold_Proof_Coin_PCGS_PR69_R.jpg

Also some sovereigns, early Australian minted coins and 1887 London sovs with added silver, which are yellow.

!CFbgZhQ!2k~$(KGrHqJ,!iQE1NFm81wBBNVDhGtkyw~~_35.JPG

Edited by Take Me Back To London!

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I doubt that you gents need it but just a word of warning, dont be too eager to buy slabbed coins, not just on feebay but anywhere.

The chinese are knocking out pretty perfect copies of coins but cant get the weight perfect. What they are getting almost perfect is pcgs packaging and holograms.

If you see a slab then you can check the pcgs number to see that it is genuine and hasnt been listed as knowingly copied but there is still the risk that the number is genuine but the item is a fake.

I wouldnt touch anything that you cant handle and put on scales.

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I doubt that you gents need it but just a word of warning, dont be too eager to buy slabbed coins, not just on feebay but anywhere.

Tell you what I do need, though - a good explanation of why Sovereigns weigh 0.2354oz or whatever it is. Through trial and error* I've worked out that the gold content of a four sovereign set, i.e. half + sov + double + five is 2.0000 TrOz. But why on Earth would they do that? It was 1816, and the guys at the Royal Mint said what, "I know, let's make a gold coin out of 22K gold that has exactly 4/17 TrOz gold content"? It was another 6 years before the double and 10 years before the five sov rocked up, so it's not even as if the Minters were smoking something and decided that all transactions had to be performed as a multiple of 0.5+1+2+5 sovs. Why not make it 1/4 or 4/18 TrOz? Both much better numbers for mental arithmetic.

Just plain weird. Answers on a postcard, please.

*with a calculator, not with a set of scales and some mixed sovs that I picked out of loose change!

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Tell you what I do need, though - a good explanation of why Sovereigns weigh 0.2354oz or whatever it is. Through trial and error* I've worked out that the gold content of a four sovereign set, i.e. half + sov + double + five is 2.0000 TrOz. But why on Earth would they do that? It was 1816, and the guys at the Royal Mint said what, "I know, let's make a gold coin out of 22K gold that has exactly 4/17 TrOz gold content"? It was another 6 years before the double and 10 years before the five sov rocked up, so it's not even as if the Minters were smoking something and decided that all transactions had to be performed as a multiple of 0.5+1+2+5 sovs. Why not make it 1/4 or 4/18 TrOz? Both much better numbers for mental arithmetic.

Just plain weird. Answers on a postcard, please.

*with a calculator, not with a set of scales and some mixed sovs that I picked out of loose change!

.....as usual the answer is inflation, war and inflation.

The sov used to be 240 grains but by the end of the napoleonic wars was just over 110ish?

The pound has been debased since it was worth more than 240 grains of gold over 400 years ago to a lump of cupro nikel now.

It doesnt answer your question directly but it should give some food for thought about what to do with all of your cupro nikel coins.

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The "modern" sovereign came about by an act of parliament in 1816 whereby the lawmakers decided on a gold pound coin to replace the guinea which was deemed to be one pound and one shilling (21 shillings).

The weight therefore had to be twenty twenty-firsts the weight of the guinea (123.274 grains).

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The "modern" sovereign came about by an act of parliament in 1816 whereby the lawmakers decided on a gold pound coin to replace the guinea which was deemed to be one pound and one shilling (21 shillings).

The weight therefore had to be twenty twenty-firsts the weight of the guinea (123.274 grains).

Yes, but why does that make the gold content of a set of sovereigns 2.0000 ozt? I do not believe that as the guinea evolved over time that someone decided to make it contain 21/20*4/17 ozt of bullion just so that 200 years later it could be shrunk to a sovereign containing 4/17 so that another 10 years later a full 8 1/2 sovereign set contains a nice round number of gold by weight.

There is a reason that is eluding me. Hypothetically I can imagine a 1/16th VAT or similar transactional tax might cause a weird weight to evolve - for every 4 sov purchase you would need another 1/4 sov to put in a pot for the tax man, and was defined to total 1.0000 ozt gold. There was no 1/4 sov and this seems to be where the crown would fit in. But I can find no reference to such a system.

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I can't answer the question about the weight of a sovereign, but many currencies' names derive from a weight of some kind, like:

pound / lira from a troy pound (12 ozt) of sterling silver,

a pennyweight is 1/240 of a troy pound

a mark is half a pound / 8 oz

peso just means weight

etc

All the old European currency units represented a certain amount of gold /silver up til the end of the gold standard, which is why the coins were all of similar sizes (except maybe the lira) even when made of cu-ni and their values had inflated away at different rates. 1 franc = 1 lira = 1 mark = 1 guilder = 1 shilling

I have always wondered where the Euro got its value for one unit from. Why DM 1.95583 = €1? Why not 1 or 2? Where did the number come from?

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Does the modern sovereign really have 4/17 ozt of gold (AGW), or is is 113 grains = 113/480 ozt? If it's 113 grains, 8.5 of them would be 960.5 grains, or 2 ozt + 0.5 grain.

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Does the modern sovereign really have 4/17 ozt of gold (AGW), or is is 113 grains = 113/480 ozt? If it's 113 grains, 8.5 of them would be 960.5 grains, or 2 ozt + 0.5 grain.

The RoyalMint site says 7.988g of 22K, and calculating by 8.5 gives 2.001ozt. That 0.001ozt falls within the precision of the initial 7.988g and I'm happy to round it exactly to 2ozt.

Royal Mint specs

calculation

If someone convinced me it's just a coincidence, I suppose I could stop worrying about it and move on with my life.

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Well, my first purchases arrived this week and i thought i would post an update.

Firstly, many thanks for those who gave me advice on my 'Newbie' thread and just general advice given out on this forum, it has proven invaluable.

As my first ever purchase of PMs, I've gone for physical Gold in the form of 10 * 2011 Sovereigns and 2 * 2011 Britannias. The former came from Gold Line (Bairds) and the latter came from Coin Invest Direct. Both very prompt and happy with my experience.

It was a big moment for me hitting that 'Buy' button but i know the reasons and regardless of any drops in the price, i'm in it for the long haul. Since my purchase last week, based on the price right now, the price of the gold in my possession has gone up about £90. I'm not so delusional to think that i could sell back those coins and make that profit, but in terms of the price per ounce, that's the value.

I'm very soon going to go for my second purchase, i'm tempted to just go for the same again i.e. 10 * 2011 Sovereigns and 2 * 2011 Britannias, possibly from the same dealers but will shop around. But I would appreciate any advice on this. Soon i'll be at about 20% of my savings in Gold, i'm not sure what to do after this, part of me is thinking i may go as far as 50% in but i realise this is a risky play, but i don't see how cash could be less risk?! I'll probably stick the rest in a NS&I bond once my current ISA period runs out...

Also a curious question, why does the colour of the Sovereigns look different to the colour of the Britannia? The latter is more like the yellow gold we know. Presumably it's something to do with the mix in the coin but just couldn't find the exact reason online.

Thanks again

BigRon

I see Gold has corrected since i posted this. It's just above the level that i bought at almost 2 weeks ago. I think this is a healthy correction as it's gone up very fast in a short period of time, plus Europe's problems are solved based on the news yesterday! :D

Any advice/thoughts on my original post, much appreciated.

BigRon

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You seem to have made excellent buys there, and best of luck. I would suggest some silver to add to the mix before the price re-tests the previous high. I bought a 4 Troy pounds of Sterling Sheet during this price dip, and they will make excellent coasters until I sell them (I wanted to see what a Pound Sterling looked like). Silver is still going to be valuable due to the amount of industrial use, regardless of the investment value. Ignore anyone who says silver or gold are in bubble territory, they are talking rubbish. The only recent sign of frenzy was the sudden price rise in silver but that hasn't gone anywhere near the historic ratio of gold to silver (1:16) so we are still due to see big rises in the price of silver.

There will be another beat-down if the economy tanks, and I'll buy some more then, but silver pops back up like a cork; I almost lost the beaten-down price for my silver disks.

http://www.cooksongold.com/mp/history_chart.jsp?metal=AG&period=2&chart=3

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You seem to have made excellent buys there, and best of luck. I would suggest some silver to add to the mix before the price re-tests the previous high. I bought a 4 Troy pounds of Sterling Sheet during this price dip, and they will make excellent coasters until I sell them (I wanted to see what a Pound Sterling looked like). Silver is still going to be valuable due to the amount of industrial use, regardless of the investment value. Ignore anyone who says silver or gold are in bubble territory, they are talking rubbish. The only recent sign of frenzy was the sudden price rise in silver but that hasn't gone anywhere near the historic ratio of gold to silver (1:16) so we are still due to see big rises in the price of silver.

There will be another beat-down if the economy tanks, and I'll buy some more then, but silver pops back up like a cork; I almost lost the beaten-down price for my silver disks.

http://www.cooksongold.com/mp/history_chart.jsp?metal=AG&period=2&chart=3

Thanks. I do plan to diversify into silver but initially i'm buying gold to build that up first, then will look at silver.

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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