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Gold strategy in the current economy


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2018 could be the year for gold https://www.goldmoney.com/research/goldmoney-insights/popular/2141-2018-could-be-the-year-for-gold

Always my experience as well, so I second your recommendation.

It's entirely  dependant on what you are comfortable with. And obviously how much you would need on hand in the effect of something seriously drastic happening.

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I invested in gold and Bitcoin around 2013, when both were low in price (this was just by chance as I am a believer in sound money). I was sure that the stock market would collapse even back then and I was not really expecting gold to take off until around 2021 and Bitcoin even later (or, rather, gradual increase over time).

 

I am now in the strange situation that I have a lot more "money" than I thought I would at this stage, but I have mainly lived abroad and I am not sure how I go about "realising" it. I know I will need to pay CGI in the UK if I sell out, but what is the first step you take? Talk to a bank (because you will need to inform them if you are going to be suddenly sending 10x1000s into your account) or find an adviser to do it for you?

 

I know there are websites which align you with financial advisers, but they all seem to take fright if you as much as mention bullion or Bitcoin. They all seem to think everyone is grubbing about for ISAs, pensions, etc., cannot get their head around people who have lived abroad and saved without the need for the investment "industry". If you say you have made money by investing in "non-traditional" things, it is like confessing you have been selling fake medicine or beer to children.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I just want to sell off as much bullion as I need right now to acquire a property, I want to keep the rest in gold and digital for now. When I have spoken in some banks about this, it is like I am talking in a foreign language.

 

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6 hours ago, GlasgowLondoner said:

I am now in the strange situation that I have a lot more "money" than I thought I would at this stage, but I have mainly lived abroad and I am not sure how I go about "realising" it. I know I will need to pay CGI in the UK if I sell out, but what is the first step you take? Talk to a bank (because you will need to inform them if you are going to be suddenly sending 10x1000s into your account) or find an adviser to do it for you?

I know there are websites which align you with financial advisers, but they all seem to take fright if you as much as mention bullion or Bitcoin. They all seem to think everyone is grubbing about for ISAs, pensions, etc., cannot get their head around people who have lived abroad and saved without the need for the investment "industry". If you say you have made money by investing in "non-traditional" things, it is like confessing you have been selling fake medicine or beer to children.

The worry of having too much money! ?

If you wish to seek taxation advice then you would want to contact a tax accountant, not a financial advisor.  There are also specialist tax accountants who deal with ex-pats and international matters.

Here is information on CGT allowances and declaring CGT profits, minus what you paid etc.  For 2020-21 the CGT tax-free allowance is £12,300.

https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax

If your gold is in UK soverigns or Britannias then it is CGT exempt.

I am not an expert. The bank may ask where the money come from ie, income, savings, inheritance, selling of property or an asset etc.. However,  it is not unusual as there are big figures being paid in all the time into accounts. All your payments are going to be electronic transfers and you are not going to be turning up at your local branch with a suitcase full of £50 notes.

Edited by Take Me Back To London!
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6 hours ago, GlasgowLondoner said:

I invested in gold and Bitcoin around 2013, when both were low in price (this was just by chance as I am a believer in sound money). I was sure that the stock market would collapse even back then and I was not really expecting gold to take off until around 2021 and Bitcoin even later (or, rather, gradual increase over time).

 

I am now in the strange situation that I have a lot more "money" than I thought I would at this stage, but I have mainly lived abroad and I am not sure how I go about "realising" it. I know I will need to pay CGI in the UK if I sell out, but what is the first step you take? Talk to a bank (because you will need to inform them if you are going to be suddenly sending 10x1000s into your account) or find an adviser to do it for you?

 

I know there are websites which align you with financial advisers, but they all seem to take fright if you as much as mention bullion or Bitcoin. They all seem to think everyone is grubbing about for ISAs, pensions, etc., cannot get their head around people who have lived abroad and saved without the need for the investment "industry". If you say you have made money by investing in "non-traditional" things, it is like confessing you have been selling fake medicine or beer to children.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I just want to sell off as much bullion as I need right now to acquire a property, I want to keep the rest in gold and digital for now. When I have spoken in some banks about this, it is like I am talking in a foreign language.

 

Are you serious???!!!

THIS is NOT the time to realise!

Sell for a rebuy but not finish the trade. Hilarious!

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7 hours ago, GlasgowLondoner said:

I invested in gold and Bitcoin around 2013, when both were low in price (this was just by chance as I am a believer in sound money). I was sure that the stock market would collapse even back then and I was not really expecting gold to take off until around 2021 and Bitcoin even later (or, rather, gradual increase over time).

 

I am now in the strange situation that I have a lot more "money" than I thought I would at this stage, but I have mainly lived abroad and I am not sure how I go about "realising" it. I know I will need to pay CGI in the UK if I sell out, but what is the first step you take? Talk to a bank (because you will need to inform them if you are going to be suddenly sending 10x1000s into your account) or find an adviser to do it for you?

 

I know there are websites which align you with financial advisers, but they all seem to take fright if you as much as mention bullion or Bitcoin. They all seem to think everyone is grubbing about for ISAs, pensions, etc., cannot get their head around people who have lived abroad and saved without the need for the investment "industry". If you say you have made money by investing in "non-traditional" things, it is like confessing you have been selling fake medicine or beer to children.

 

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I just want to sell off as much bullion as I need right now to acquire a property, I want to keep the rest in gold and digital for now. When I have spoken in some banks about this, it is like I am talking in a foreign language.

 

of course you are speaking a foreign language to them.

they are taught from birth that the way to make money is to diversify your assets,and property is the most important one to have.

 

the reality is more like farming.you rotate crops from season to season so you dont deplete all the resources, then when said seaonal period has expired you allow the land to lie fallow for a while to recharge.

 

as for gold/bitcoin and so on this is ultimately a battle of ideas.both have their merits,both have their drawbacks, so it depends which outcome you think fits the circumstances.

 

gold= stability,thousands of years track record as real money, tried and tested

crypto/fintech=  time is money, ability to transact faster...much like going from writing letters to emails.

it doesn't mean letter writing or the means of transmission is dead(see ebay and the massive parcel boom),but the application will change.

 

but are we now entering an era where a return to stability over the virtual takes hold????that's the billion dollar question.

if we enter a cyber war of somekind where communications ae distrupted/cut, then stability is king, if it goes the other way then speed is of the essence

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1 hour ago, LetsBuild said:

Erm.. has Trump just basically said income tax is deferred (i.e. don't worry we will print all the money)? That cant be right?!

He has cut payroll taxes (their version of employer NI) until end of year, extended unemployment benefits ($400/week!) and put a halt on evictions  and also deferred student loan repayments.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Warlord said:

He has cut payroll taxes (their version of employer NI) until end of year, extended unemployment benefits ($400/week!) and put a halt on evictions  and also deferred student loan repayments

 

Ok so, not the employee income tax - but you know that is next. Then income tax rebates.

Will be good to see how gold responds to this.

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Many thanks for this thread it has been enlightening. 

My thoughts on gold used to be that it takes 5 men to dig it up and then we spend as much time, effort and cost locking it away again?

I like to understand things in their simplest terms. My view has changed and whilst I still feel Gold is not an investment it is a the stable rock (well metal) on which to rest. 

Comparisons to the Dow and how well stocks have performed are interesting but to me it’s like comparing the water in the river that passes by against the rock which has sat in the river for 50 years. 

One is a loan to a business on which there are expectations that that business does something, adds value more than you could and then pays a reward. Sometimes it does well, sometimes it doesn’t. Debt and costs can reduce these assets to nil or increase them ten fold. An educated gamble if you like. 

Even property investment (considered a physical asset) has an expectation of a yield so can underperform and value can rise and fall. 

I view gold as almost stationary and some investors eg Warren Buffet therefore considers it almost useless.....however times like now if it’s the only thing NOT moving then it becomes absolutely crucial to measure against and offers stability. So Mr B is right it’s is physically useless (well almost) but when everything else is so uncertain then for the first time it will become a rock on which I shall grab. 

I can see gold at a much higher price over the next few years.....and in my mind it will still be the same value only the other things we measure wealth with £, €, $ will have eroded away. 

The only slight reservation will be if gold price starts to build in a premium just because it is gold. ie new jewellery prices 

Probably wrong but it seems to be a reassuring finite measure.  

 

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19 hours ago, Take Me Back To London! said:

The worry of having too much money! ?

If you wish to seek taxation advice then you would want to contact a tax accountant, not a financial advisor.  There are also specialist tax accountants who deal with ex-pats and international matters.

Here is information on CGT allowances and declaring CGT profits, minus what you paid etc.  For 2020-21 the CGT tax-free allowance is £12,300.

https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax

If your gold is in UK soverigns or Britannias then it is CGT exempt.

I am not an expert. The bank may ask where the money come from ie, income, savings, inheritance, selling of property or an asset etc.. However,  it is not unusual as there are big figures being paid in all the time into accounts. All your payments are going to be electronic transfers and you are not going to be turning up at your local branch with a suitcase full of £50 notes.

 

Thanks for the advice about an accountant. What is the best way to find a reliable one? I would say ask through friends/family, but I do not have family and my friends all live abroad!

 

As for not realising now: why not some, if I am in profit? I was actually underwater for a lot of the 2010s. I only want to have my own place and some savings. If I have made a profit (and that is a bit of a fluke), then that is enough for me. Who knows what the future will bring? Personally, I think gold is overbought at the moment. I am surprised it has jumped so much right now, because the market does not follow the fundamentals (in my observation). Naturally, I would only sell out as much as I need, because I would rather be in gold or Bitcoin than cash or anything else (but that is just me).

 

Until you realise, you have not made any money. I invested in Bitcoin what I reckoned I would want to put aside for my funeral. It has ended up increasing in price to now providing my pension. But that is on paper (it could quite easily vanish overnight).

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1 hour ago, GlasgowLondoner said:

Until you realise, you have not made any money. I invested in Bitcoin what I reckoned I would want to put aside for my funeral. It has ended up increasing in price to now providing my pension. But that is on paper (it could quite easily vanish overnight).

It's fine to lock in profits, diversify e.g. carefully selected medium risk funds with good yield etc. etc.  There are a few Precious Metal obsessed people on here who dismiss all other assets as worthless now or later & only really care about stacking.

Listen to their commentary on Gold & Silver, ignore most everything else.

If you have north of £100k you should get an IFA, preferably via a trusted recommendation.  A lot more than that you should have an investment manager too.  The fees are a leap of faith, my pension is well up post Covid correction & no way would I have matched the growth & income my IM has achieved net of fees.

Her decisions are regularly reviewed by my IFA. I don't know why so many on here self manage big pots (or claim to).  Its work & I already have a job, not to mention hobbies, family etc.  If I did manage my money own money I'd save about £4k a year for maybe 500 hours a year of work.  No spank you!!

And I'd f*** up eventually.

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3 hours ago, GlasgowLondoner said:

 

Thanks for the advice about an accountant. What is the best way to find a reliable one? I would say ask through friends/family, but I do not have family and my friends all live abroad!

 

As for not realising now: why not some, if I am in profit? I was actually underwater for a lot of the 2010s. I only want to have my own place and some savings. If I have made a profit (and that is a bit of a fluke), then that is enough for me. Who knows what the future will bring? Personally, I think gold is overbought at the moment. I am surprised it has jumped so much right now, because the market does not follow the fundamentals (in my observation). Naturally, I would only sell out as much as I need, because I would rather be in gold or Bitcoin than cash or anything else (but that is just me).

 

Until you realise, you have not made any money. I invested in Bitcoin what I reckoned I would want to put aside for my funeral. It has ended up increasing in price to now providing my pension. But that is on paper (it could quite easily vanish overnight).

Regarding a tax accountant for advice, to make sure you don't over pay tax, to deal with the HMRI on your behalf etc., instead of doing it all yourself, here is an article by the Which Magazine on the subject with what you should check & look for and what to expect from an accountant.

https://trustedtraders.which.co.uk/for-traders/articles/how-to-find-an-accountant

Regarding the paper price being realised/it possibly vanishing overnight is true.  Another variable in the mix is being house prices with the current situation. All needs careful personal consideration.

It is great to hear about your investment story, gold opinion and your wish to buy a home and to have some money left over, which sounds very nice.  I wish you the very best and if you can keep us updated.

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4 hours ago, GlasgowLondoner said:

 

Until you realise, you have not made any money. I invested in Bitcoin what I reckoned I would want to put aside for my funeral. It has ended up increasing in price to now providing my pension. But that is on paper (it could quite easily vanish overnight).

If your Bitcoin CGT liability for cashing out will be a £ six figure sum, and you like living abroad, you should seriously consider domiciling to a county that has zero CGT or taxes on Crypto and cash out while living as a resident there. That is one of my plans if I ever have CGT liability of £200k+. Do what the rich do, move to somewhere more tax favourable to sell in FIAT.

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On 08/08/2020 at 09:25, Will! said:

FT Alphaville: What’s with gold backwardation? (Registration but not subscription required.)

Good article -

Quote

If and when regular money rates become negative, however, gold’s zero yielding quality is no longer construed as a vice but rather a feature. In such circumstances, holding cash becomes costly while holding gold becomes the opportunity. And it’s this feature which triggers not just demand for new sources of gold, but also a backwardation that incentivises those who have previously stashed gold to sell out at a profit.

What does that indicate about the money market in general?

That central banks are no longer suppressing interest rates but rather battling to prop them up above zero. And, perhaps more pertinently, that cash itself may be an eroding store of value relative to precious metals like gold. At least in the scenario where negative interest rates become the norm.

 

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22 hours ago, markyh said:

If your Bitcoin CGT liability for cashing out will be a £ six figure sum, and you like living abroad, you should seriously consider domiciling to a county that has zero CGT or taxes on Crypto and cash out while living as a resident there. That is one of my plans if I ever have CGT liability of £200k+. Do what the rich do, move to somewhere more tax favourable to sell in FIAT.

Succient advice. Interesting to see Bitcoin now touching $12,000 as Grayscale release first Bitcoin ads today:

 

Edited by MonsieurCopperCrutch
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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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