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JimDiGritz

Eur Vs Gbp - Buying A Property In Ireland

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This thread is really focussed on the macro-economic picture outlook rather than investments/house prices specifically, however mods feel free to move it if you think it should live somewhere else.

Background

We are a young family who STR in 2009 (just got out in time), we have a £70k STR fund with 30% in gold/silver and the balance in ISA's and cash. Our medium term plan has always been to downshift and buy a self-reliant property with minimal bills and then continue working on a part-time basis on a handful of projects via the internet.

The UK...

Whilst I do believe that we will see a return to 1998 house & land prices, I think that the government will delay this for at least another few years. Even then I believe that the relative scarcity of rural property will always keep them out of our reach.

Overseas..

I speak a smattering of French, German and Italian but frankly would struggle to hold a basic conversation let alone live in a foreign country. I believe I am being pragmatic rather than small minded when I discount non-english speaking countries. NZ & Oz are really just too far, and whilst we have family in Canada the immigration criteria have tightened significantly over the past few years, plus their HPC hasn't even started yet.

Ireland...

We started to look at rural property in Ireland (concentrating on the Munster region, Co. Cork specifically) and have found a fair few 3 bed cottages on an acre or two, requiring cosmetic work and/or modernisation reduced from c.€150,000 to €50-60,000. As an example one we have had our eye on was reduced to €50,000 from €160,000 and is just about to be bought from the bank for €40,200.... I expect that spending €20,000 would bring them up to a decent finish with quality insulation and solid fuel heating etc.

So....

The question!

I think that we are seeing the race to the bottom between GBP, USD and the EUR.

If you were in my position would you gamble and wait on the possibility that the EUR/GBP heads in the right direction or even hold off until Ireland reverts to the Punt at a significant devalued ratio? Or would you jump in now?

Thanks!

Jim

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For south of Ireland

Quick answer - check infrastructure - poor broadband coverage. You need medical insurance if not on benefits. Very expensive for car tax - food very expensive - milk costs 99p for 2 litres in UK costs 1.68 down south.

Thanks for that, well worth highlighting.

Broadband is a key issue, I'm struggling to find a foolproof way to check whether a property will get DSL, or even if the local exchange is upgraded to DSL...

Food - our plans have always been to grow some staple foods and keep chickens and maybe a family cow. Of course we would still need to buy groceries, so this is a valid point. My wife grew up on a farm, and we both have spent quite a lot of time with a local organic farmer who has been completely self sufficient for the past decade.

Medical benefits - I didn't know this. I believed that whilst the GP is €50 a visit, A&E is free. If this is the case then we were budgeting to keep our critical illness insurance (legacy of our mortgage days), which is £180pcm - I'm thinking that we could easily switch this to a basic family medical plan...

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If you are keen to go and try it main issues are work and whether the new lifestyle/location suit you. You have a plan for the work, the latter is you won't really know till you do it.

Purchase opportunities will be easier to find and strike a deal if on the ground. If dead keen to try it, go, but rent first - this will get you on the ground to find the best purchase opportunities and find out more about any potential pitfalls and sample the lifestyle. If it suits after a few months, a year, two years, whatever you can take the more permanent plunge. You might find that the country suits but the particular area doesn't for some reason, it shouldn't take that long to find out.

On the money side with the above strategy - split funds 50/50 EUR/GBP to hedge your bets?

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If you are keen to go and try it main issues are work and whether the new lifestyle/location suit you. You have a plan for the work, the latter is you won't really know till you do it.

Purchase opportunities will be easier to find and strike a deal if on the ground. If dead keen to try it, go, but rent first - this will get you on the ground to find the best purchase opportunities and find out more about any potential pitfalls and sample the lifestyle. If it suits after a few months, a year, two years, whatever you can take the more permanent plunge. You might find that the country suits but the particular area doesn't for some reason, it shouldn't take that long to find out.

On the money side with the above strategy - split funds 50/50 EUR/GBP to hedge your bets?

alternatively stay out of currencies and buy FONDUE

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I have also been thinking about Ireland for a while.

There seems to be a good few IT jobs out there + the cheap rural property like you mention above.

I did find a website where you can check broadband of a local area, I will find it again and post back.

The advantages of southern Ireland for me are:

  • Student loans company (if you know what I mean)
  • Rural housing 75% cheaper than the UK
  • IT jobs appear to pay better than the UK
  • Not to far from the UK, with flights to Bristol

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I think that we are seeing the race to the bottom between GBP, USD and the EUR.

Ireland will ultimately default, leave the Euro and your house will be valued in Irish Túsur which will devalue 75% relative to the GBP.

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For anyone wanting to take a closer look:

=c19&s[route_id]=&s[a_id_transport]=0&s[address]=&s[txt]=acre&s[mnb]=&s[mxb]=&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=75000&s[pt_id]=&s[house_type]=&s[sqmn]=&s[sqmx]=&s[mna]=&s[mxa]=&s[npt_id]=5&s[days_old]=&s[new]=&s[agreed]=&search.x=26&search.y=13&more=&tab=&search=1&s[search_type]=sale&s[transport]=&s[advanced]=1&s[price_per_room]=&fr=default"]http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?s[cc_id]=c19&s[route_id]=&s[a_id_transport]=0&s[address]=&s[txt]=acre&s[mnb]=&s[mxb]=&s[mnp]=&s[mxp]=75000&s[pt_id]=&s[house_type]=&s[sqmn]=&s[sqmx]=&s[mna]=&s[mxa]=&s[npt_id]=5&s[days_old]=&s[new]=&s[agreed]=&search.x=26&search.y=13&more=&tab=&search=1&s[search_type]=sale&s[transport]=&s[advanced]=1&s[price_per_room]=&fr=default

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Ireland will ultimately default, leave the Euro and your house will be valued in Irish Túsur which will devalue 75% relative to the GBP.

And you can't hedge this risk by taking out a Euro mortgage which will probably remain denominated in Euros while the house is still just a house for which most buyers will pay in Túsurs.

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If you are keen to go and try it main issues are work and whether the new lifestyle/location suit you. You have a plan for the work, the latter is you won't really know till you do it.

Purchase opportunities will be easier to find and strike a deal if on the ground. If dead keen to try it, go, but rent first - this will get you on the ground to find the best purchase opportunities and find out more about any potential pitfalls and sample the lifestyle. If it suits after a few months, a year, two years, whatever you can take the more permanent plunge. You might find that the country suits but the particular area doesn't for some reason, it shouldn't take that long to find out.

On the money side with the above strategy - split funds 50/50 EUR/GBP to hedge your bets?

That's what I've done. I'm not sure if we'll buy in UK or France, so we split our funds between the two currencies we use.

alternatively stay out of currencies and buy FONDUE

I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket.

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That's what I've done. I'm not sure if we'll buy in UK or France, so we split our funds between the two currencies we use.

I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket.

but You can eat FONDUE

you cant do that with cash (or at least it doesnt taste of much)

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And you can't hedge this risk by taking out a Euro mortgage which will probably remain denominated in Euros while the house is still just a house for which most buyers will pay in Túsurs.

In which case there wouldn't be much point in Ireland leaving the euro.

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That's what I've done. I'm not sure if we'll buy in UK or France, so we split our funds between the two currencies we use.

I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in one basket.

Anecdotal, but form what I've seen the brit purchaser has been replaced by European and Paris buyers. You have the same situation in France as with the UK - money pumped into the capital through financial services sustaining the bubble. The new non-residencec tax laws should (all other things being equal) cause a lot of damage to the second home market. Quite a few brits selling (or trying to sell). Should there be a default in eurozone countries and those defaulting countries devalue investment attention will switch to those for a few years - could be a very big drop in interest in french property and prices with it. Again need to be on the ground, speak some french and visit the notaires and flick through their books and listings - agent pricing and particularly english/uk agent listings at joke prices.

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Cork is the size of Northern Ireland. Of course there will be places like the Beara peninsula where infrastructure will be ropey. However if you get your feet on the ground it'll be easy enough to assess the broadband connection. At 40-60K there's a strong possibility that prices are at long term sustainable rates. Of course price falls could overshoot in the next couple of years, but prices in ROI have been dropping since 2007.

It's in the lap of the gods whether GBP will be stronger/weaker than the Euro in 5 years time. The conservative move is to make sure you earn in the currency you owe. If you can afford your repayments, does it matter which currency you hold? However, if you want to take a gamble, you can always hold a wedge in sterling in the hope that you take advantage of the currency fluctuation.

In my case my mortgage is in Euros and I earn GBP mainly. Every time the pound drops I have sleepless nights. It's not worth the grief.....

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Broadband in the RoI is abysmal. If you buy in a built up big-city area you should be able to get pricey, mid-speed broadband (by UK standards) from a limited number of providers but if you are in a small town outside of a major urban area you get to play the broadband lottery. In the actual countryside - not a chance.

For a country which played so heavily on its image a hub for IT industry, it really is a sad state of affairs.

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My wife's family are from Ireland and they're constantly complaining about how much worse off they have it than folks in the UK.

Unless you're in finance or IT and are near to Dublin, them employment is a complete disaster in Ireland. All the young people are getting out of the country because there is no work of any kind.

I believe that while income tax is lower than the UK, you are hit by more stealth charges (levies on practically everything).

You also have to contend with the fact that Sterling/Euro rate is not in your favour and that the cost of living is about 33% more expensive than the UK.

Not sure why more English folks wouldn't consider the north of England. Property/land prices are much lower and you have all the benefits of countryside, fresh air and a reasonable cost of living.

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Ireland will ultimately default, leave the Euro and your house will be valued in Irish Túsur which will devalue 75% relative to the GBP.

Yeah but..no but...

If Ireland, Greece, spain and Italy devalue then that would leave the Gbp at a high level and only having the Germans (and maybe Dutch and Danes) to sell to.(?)

In that case the Govt. would have no choice but devalue by 25% (or 50% or 75%) too?

Does anyone agree with this?

Surely this is the kind of clusterfck that we're headed for and the Germans have more to fear than anyone..

Edited by council dweller

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Ireland is pretty backward and you should go in with your eyes open. I live in the north, where salaries are half that of the south, and our quality of life is superior. Cars are mental price down there. So if you like your cars, own one for a year before importing it.

But tbh i think your mad. My wife is from the south, and she wouldnt live there - we could get a free site from her dad 40 minutes from dublin, but we havent taken that up. The place is croni-ism in the extreme, and will wind you up. Il take a few chavs throwing stones a couple of weeks a year over that place any time. Besides its good at keeping the immigrants out.

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A friend of mine is in the process of moving from Southern Ireland, all the above is true, he's moving with his young family, back to the UK, be careful what you wish for.

Fair enough. That said friends of ours emigrated to Vancouver. Bought a house and got a well paying job. They couldn't stop bitching and moaning about how it this or that wasn't as good as England. Within 6 months they were back in Blighty and he was back at his old job. Vancouver is a fantastic city with low crime and clean streets, and is regularly voted in the top 3 cities to live in in the world.... Each to their own.

I take peoples points about Ireland having issues. Frankly I'd rather live in a fully paid for house with land and have a few issues than paying rent or borrowing £250,000 for the pleasure of a bunch of different issues here in the UK.

DotBomb. Sadly smallholdings and property with land here in the UK (even in the North) will be in excess of £150k. We would be lucky to buy a double-wide park home on a postage stamp in Cumbria for £50k. I mean even in the shit chav infested, fight at the bus stop every Friday and Saturday night street in Doncaster that my mum lives on they are selling 2 bed terraced houses with no garden for £70k.

****** that noise.

I'm considering this with my eyes open, but the lure of owning something outright is getting strong.

Edited by JimDiGritz

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Fair enough. That said friends of ours emigrated to Vancouver. Bought a house and got a well paying job. They couldn't stop bitching and moaning about how it this or that wasn't as good as England. Within 6 months they were back in Blighty and he was back at his old job. Vancouver is a fantastic city with low crime and clean streets, and is regularly voted in the top 3 cities to live in in the world.... Each to their own.

I take peoples points about Ireland having issues. Frankly I'd rather live in a fully paid for house with land and have a few issues than paying rent or borrowing £250,000 for the pleasure of a bunch of different issues here in the UK.

DotBomb. Sadly smallholdings and property with land here in the UK (even in the North) will be in excess of £150k. We would be lucky to buy a double-wide park home on a postage stamp in Cumbria for £50k. I mean even in the shit chav infested, fight at the bus stop every Friday and Saturday night street in Doncaster that my mum lives on they are selling 2 bed terraced houses with no garden for £70k.

****** that noise.

I'm considering this with my eyes open, but the lure of owning something outright is getting strong.

,

Edited by Mary Cassatt

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I recommend this website - the HPC of Southern Ireland. There is a forum for price drops all over Ireland. It is a valuable source of information.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/

Also this one Irish house hunter which logs falls in prices on the ROI property portal Daft.ie

http://www.irishhousehunter.com/

Just put in the area you are looking at in the search engine and you should get an idea of prices before and after

Great, very useful, thanks!

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With respect, you aren't comparing apples with apples. Ireland against Canada?

(The only issue I'm aware of with Canadians, is they lack a sense of humour).

They've natural resources and they've not nearly as much debt as either the UK or Ireland.

I'd choose Canada anytime, your question was specifically about Ireland though wasn't it?

BTW 1000 Irish a week are leaving Ireland for other shores.

I think you might have missed my OP.

whilst we have family in Canada the immigration criteria have tightened significantly over the past few years, plus their HPC hasn't even started yet.
We can't get in to Canada.

To be fair my point stands, the fact that people could move to Vancouver and decide it wasn't as good as the UK is testament to the fact that some people just can't be pleased.

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For south of Ireland

Quick answer - check infrastructure - poor broadband coverage. You need medical insurance if not on benefits. Very expensive for car tax - food very expensive - milk costs 99p for 2 litres in UK costs 1.68 down south.

Why is this, please?

I thought EU citizen in any other EU country would be entitled to reciprocal healthcare arrangements.

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@OP look in the West instead, county Galway to be specific (yes i am biased :D)

and yes you can get broadband in quite rural locations, im myself on 2mbit symmetrical wireless here (goes up to 5) with lower pings than the shity eircom adsl service

more than perfect to run my online empire and manage shit load of servers remotely :)

the only good broadband provider in country are UPC and cable but thats in only a few of the cities

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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