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MrB

Forced To Take A Paycut

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Hello all,

Wife works as a teaching assistant, helping kids with disabilities and learning difficulties and is employed by the local council.

Yesterday she recieved a letter saying that due to 'single status' i.e. all jobs accross the council being re-evaluated, her pay will be cut (from c16k to 13k).

Questions for legal minded HPCers:

1. Can the coucil legally just say from X date your pay will be cut by c20%?

2. What course of action should we consider, possibly thinking of getting an employment solicitor (provided there is some reasonable chance their move is not legal)?

3. Her trade union rep is a ******ng retard, and hasn't helped 1 bit

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts........

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1. Can the coucil legally just say from X date your pay will be cut by c20%?

Is this the result of that legal case a while back requiring women in council work to be paid the same as men?

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Is this the result of that legal case a while back requiring women in council work to be paid the same as men?

Yes, it's part of the fall-out of this. They seem to think that a refuse collector is being disciminated against as he doesnt get teachers holdiay. That aside, I not sure what the hell to do?

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1.Is your wife a permanent employee or on some kind of fixed term contract?

2.Has your wife, assuming she is a permanent employee, been working there for more than 24 months with no breaks in employment other than holidays, etc?

3. Is this pay cut only affecting your wife or others in her department or in the Council generally? In other words, are other teaching assistants in the Council suffering an identical pay cut?

4. What does the 'single status' mean - any idea?

The problem when TSHTF is that union reps often look after just one person - themselves. I have yet to hear of anyone talk highly of their union reps when mass pay or job cuts are underway.

As I understand it UK employment law means that people can't have their salaries reduced. This is why we have been reading lots of reports of public sector workers being asked to vote for staff cuts or wage cuts. Has your wife and other staff been asked to vote on staff cuts or wage cuts?

Usually, to get around the above rules an organisation will fire someone by making the post obsolete, then they create a new job title doing the same work and hire the same person back but on less money.

So, to answer your question - no, they should nt be allowed to do this, as I understand it, via the above employment laws.

Sorry to hear that this is happening to you both. It is cr*p

Ah, reading the below article it appears that this single status is where Councils are lumping in similar jobs so that they share the same salary in the hope that it will avoid people on lower salaries suing. So, instead of raising the salaries of the lower paid workers they are lowering the higher paid ones.

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/anger-as-cumbria-teaching-assistants-pay-cuts-ruling-ignored-1.858382?referrerPath=news/1.121194

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It looks like every teaching assistant who appealed in Kendle had their appeal turned down

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/9102971.Teaching_assistants__pay___appeals_process__flawed__claim/

Local MP in Cumbria saying that the Council could face thousands of employment tribunals resulting in millions of pounds in claims.

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/9108230.Teaching_assistants_row___Cumbria_council_leader_hits_back_at_MPs/

Get your MP on board would be a good idea. Write and let him/her know what is going on.

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Normally a union would negotiate this so that the lowest pay would not have the same cut. I think they have to consult!

I think you missed the point; the government said that men and women working for the council have to be paid the same amount of money for similar work. The council would be breaking the law if they paid a woman more money than a man for doing similar work.

The unions probably thought that all the women would get a pay rise, but a quick Google search shows lots of women complaining that their pay was cut, by over 10,000 pounds in some cases.

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I think you missed the point; the government said that men and women working for the council have to be paid the same amount of money for similar work. The council would be breaking the law if they paid a woman more money than a man for doing similar work.

The unions probably thought that all the women would get a pay rise, but a quick Google search shows lots of women complaining that their pay was cut, by over 10,000 pounds in some cases.

From what I have just googled the 'single status' is not about gender pay differences but about someone saying that they basically do a similar job to someone else but that person gets paid more money.

So, instead of raising the lower paid worker they have opted to cut the salary of the higher paid worker.

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I shall ask my unison rep tomorrow, he sits next to me and is not too bad.

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1.Is your wife a permanent employee or on some kind of fixed term contract?

2.Has your wife, assuming she is a permanent employee, been working there for more than 24 months with no breaks in employment other than holidays, etc?

3. Is this pay cut only affecting your wife or others in her department or in the Council generally? In other words, are other teaching assistants in the Council suffering an identical pay cut?

4. What does the 'single status' mean - any idea?

The problem when TSHTF is that union reps often look after just one person - themselves. I have yet to hear of anyone talk highly of their union reps when mass pay or job cuts are underway.

As I understand it UK employment law means that people can't have their salaries reduced. This is why we have been reading lots of reports of public sector workers being asked to vote for staff cuts or wage cuts. Has your wife and other staff been asked to vote on staff cuts or wage cuts?

Usually, to get around the above rules an organisation will fire someone by making the post obsolete, then they create a new job title doing the same work and hire the same person back but on less money.

So, to answer your question - no, they should nt be allowed to do this, as I understand it, via the above employment laws.

Sorry to hear that this is happening to you both. It is cr*p

Ah, reading the below article it appears that this single status is where Councils are lumping in similar jobs so that they share the same salary in the hope that it will avoid people on lower salaries suing. So, instead of raising the salaries of the lower paid workers they are lowering the higher paid ones.

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/anger-as-cumbria-teaching-assistants-pay-cuts-ruling-ignored-1.858382?referrerPath=news/1.121194

Wife's permanent and been there for over 10 years.

It's affecting anyone with the same job, there will likely be hundreds across the region.

The single status thing is about similar jobs accross the council being grouped together on the same band, and does involve some gender discrimination 'removal' from both angles (e.g. teaching assistants wont get paid for holdiays, but refuse collectors won't get bonuses etc)

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Usually, to get around the above rules an organisation will fire someone by making the post obsolete, then they create a new job title doing the same work and hire the same person back but on less money.

Or do what was done in Southampton, and tell staff that if they fail to sign a new and inferior contract, they will be deemed to have resigned from their posts. Even from what little I know about employment law, this has to be fishy. Surely resigning from a job is only something you can do actively, not by an act of omission? If Southampton Council try to push that through, they'll surely be looking at thousands of compensation claims.

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Guest sillybear2

Yes, it's part of the fall-out of this. They seem to think that a refuse collector is being disciminated against as he doesnt get teachers holdiay. That aside, I not sure what the hell to do?

Leave.

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Or do what was done in Southampton, and tell staff that if they fail to sign a new and inferior contract, they will be deemed to have resigned from their posts. Even from what little I know about employment law, this has to be fishy. Surely resigning from a job is only something you can do actively, not by an act of omission? If Southampton Council try to push that through, they'll surely be looking at thousands of compensation claims.

I think they are trying the same in Shropshire - something along the lines of anyone who (this being the whole LA workforce) refuses a 5% pay cut will be redundant. Clearly if the Southampton LA is successful in ding this (and Shropshire if I am correct in thinking this) than a great many, if not all, Local Authorities will follow suit - wage deflation picking up in pace.

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So, instead of raising the lower paid worker they have opted to cut the salary of the higher paid worker.

Same as when they tried to get pension equality - they did it the way that will cost less.

Anyone who thinks its worth fighting tooth and nail for more money clearly hasn't read all the reports about top dogs hanging on to their salaries at the expense of lower paid jobs.

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Hello all,

Wife works as a teaching assistant, helping kids with disabilities and learning difficulties and is employed by the local council.

Yesterday she recieved a letter saying that due to 'single status' i.e. all jobs accross the council being re-evaluated, her pay will be cut (from c16k to 13k).

Questions for legal minded HPCers:

1. Can the coucil legally just say from X date your pay will be cut by c20%?

2. What course of action should we consider, possibly thinking of getting an employment solicitor (provided there is some reasonable chance their move is not legal)?

3. Her trade union rep is a ******ng retard, and hasn't helped 1 b

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts........

It's all part of Dave's redistribution of wealth plan.Console yourself with the thought that the recipient will most likely have a jolly good time at royal Ascot next year on your money.

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I believe, although I'm no employment lawyer, that an employer has to give 3 months notice to change terms of employment unless agreed to by the employee. Apart from that, you just have to suck it up I'm afraid.

Don't take this as gospel though.....

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I think they are trying the same in Shropshire - something along the lines of anyone who (this being the whole LA workforce) refuses a 5% pay cut will be redundant.

That is possibly legal, though not if they promptly create another post with the same duties but for less money. Redundancy is a job disappearing, i.e. the employer doesn't need that job doing any more. There is a crucial difference between redundancy and being deemed to resign. If you are made redundant, you are entitled to redundancy pay and to claim benefits afterwards. If you voluntarily resign from a job, no redundancy pay and no unemployment benefit. I suspect the former reason is why Southampton are trying this 'if you don't sign the new contract you will be deemed to have resigned' stunt, and I'm sure it must be illegal.

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That is possibly legal, though not if they promptly create another post with the same duties but for less money. Redundancy is a job disappearing, i.e. the employer doesn't need that job doing any more. There is a crucial difference between redundancy and being deemed to resign. If you are made redundant, you are entitled to redundancy pay and to claim benefits afterwards. If you voluntarily resign from a job, no redundancy pay and no unemployment benefit. I suspect the former reason is why Southampton are trying this 'if you don't sign the new contract you will be deemed to have resigned' stunt, and I'm sure it must be illegal.

Thanks, very interesting.

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It's all part of Dave's redistribution of wealth plan.Console yourself with the thought that the recipient will most likely have a jolly good time at royal Ascot next year on your money.

The irony is that it was Harriet Harman's equality bill that caused these issues, and the council is Labour controlled. There is more than a whiff of the council looking after their managers at the expense of services (and of course this propagates the kind of Tory bashing which some revel in).

I suspect any savings will be lost in litigation and there will be many costs associated with this reorganisation.

Since the cut is so big I will try and find a solicitor specialising in employment law. I think the risk/reward balance is probably in our favour.

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The irony is that it was Harriet Harman's equality bill that caused these issues, and the council is Labour controlled. There is more than a whiff of the council looking after their managers at the expense of services (and of course this propagates the kind of Tory bashing which some revel in).

I suspect any savings will be lost in litigation and there will be many costs associated with this reorganisation.

Since the cut is so big I will try and find a solicitor specialising in employment law. I think the risk/reward balance is probably in our favour.

Phone ACAS. I have always found them very helpful when it comes to employment law.

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It's all part of Dave's redistribution of wealth plan.Console yourself with the thought that the recipient will most likely have a jolly good time at royal Ascot next year on your money.

No need, Tony and Gordon did all the leg work for him.

Make no mistake, whether your flag is blue or red they truly don't give the tiniest amount of 5hit about any of us.

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Guest sillybear2

That is possibly legal, though not if they promptly create another post with the same duties but for less money. Redundancy is a job disappearing, i.e. the employer doesn't need that job doing any more. There is a crucial difference between redundancy and being deemed to resign. If you are made redundant, you are entitled to redundancy pay and to claim benefits afterwards. If you voluntarily resign from a job, no redundancy pay and no unemployment benefit. I suspect the former reason is why Southampton are trying this 'if you don't sign the new contract you will be deemed to have resigned' stunt, and I'm sure it must be illegal.

That's dodgy innit, aside from the govt f****g about with statute; one party cannot unilaterally amend or impose new terms without prior notice or agreement of the other party, otherwise the whole concept of contract law will descend into a steaming pile of sh1t. Look how the vulture funds pursue sovereign debtors for full payment of their defaulted IOU's, the courts uphold these contracts no matter how odious. Mind you, those amoral a$$holes can afford good lawyers.

Don't sign anything, if you face an impasse just let them make you redundant and use it as an opportunity to find something better. B)

Make sure you keep a nice record of their letters, threats etc in case they try and play dirty with trumped up gross misconduct or something. The unions are of limited use, these dinosaurs are often in bed with the management when it comes to this sort of thing, they've probably already agreed to their plans. Try and avoid these types of employers if you can, unless you like to be treated like cattle or graded like hens eggs.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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