The Disappearing Middle Class

[Trampa501]

Did anyone see this feature on Channel 4 news just now ? Scary, but probably close to the real situation out there.

I must admit I admired that woman who could no longer find HR/office work, and has resorted to cleaning homes for a living. But in her position I'd just get the bills paid by the government. She can't be much better off by doing this work, and it would probably work against her if she tried to get similar work to what she's done in the past - probably better to do some study and/or OU stuff.She's worked hard for enough years and paid enough into the system. Why should some chav who's never worked get payments and not her?

Edited July 14, 2011 by Trampa501

[pl1]

Did anyone see this feature on Channel 4 news just now ? Scary, but probably close to the real situation out there.

I must admit I admired that woman who could no longer find HR/office work, and has resorted to cleaning homes for a living. But in her position I'd just get the bills paid by the government. She can't be much better off by doing this work, and it would probably work against her if she tried to get similar work to what she's done in the past - probably better to do some study and/or OU stuff.She's worked hard for enough years and paid enough into the system. Why should some chav who's never worked get payments and not her?

I find myself agreeeing with this point of view more and more. It's a good way for her to get a debt-free university education. If she's young enough, a bun in the oven could be her ticket to this. Sorry, but that's the way I see things today.

[wonderpup]

This quote from the comments makes a few good points:

Once this country deindustrialised in the late seventies and concentrated on services and what were euphemistically called “financial services” (read: money spivvery) the system leaders were always going to come calling with an acid grin and an invoice. Well, here it is. Cough up, middle classes.

Those who bought the propaganda and thought themselves “middle class” are now about to be ripped off as were the industrial working class. My suggestion is they shuffle into the dole queue the same way as their predecessors and don’t complain. Otherwise they will be dubbed “scroungers” by the Murdochs and/or their successors.

Mind you, they were warned of this at the outset of deindustrialisation and paid no attention. So maybe they are getting what they deserve. After all, they joined in with all the Daily Mail-type media jeering.

I wonder if Cameron ever followed up on his thought about reindustrialising, that slipped out during the India visit? Or did someone tap him on the shoulder and advise him to shut up about things he obviously wasn’t aware of?……Just a thought.

[Butthead]

Did anyone see this feature on Channel 4 news just now ? Scary, but probably close to the real situation out there.

I must admit I admired that woman who could no longer find HR/office work, and has resorted to cleaning homes for a living. But in her position I'd just get the bills paid by the government. She can't be much better off by doing this work, and it would probably work against her if she tried to get similar work to what she's done in the past - probably better to do some study and/or OU stuff.She's worked hard for enough years and paid enough into the system. Why should some chav who's never worked get payments and not her?

Some points:

Being on the dole for anything other than a short period is likely to count against her more than her cleaning job.

HR/Office work is not exactly a productive career. Financial Services may be about money spivvery, but it's spivvery that can be sold abroad. HR is just about ticking boxes in this country.

How do you know she's worked hard for years? Perhaps she wasn't very good at HR/Office work, hence why she can't find employment now. Perhaps she was HR/Office for a local authority or something and is only really suited to unskilled labour.

[Sour Mash]

I suspect that the people who had taken low-end jobs had no other financial choice.

If I found myself in the position of being unemployed, I would most definitely just scrounge as many benefits as possible and try to get more education/training. I've paid plenty of tax and NI so why continue to generate income for the government whilst a bunch of career dole-ees and economic refugees get all the benefit? The whole system is unsustainable and will crash sooner or later so might as well get something out of it whilst it's still paying out.

Of course, since I stupidly lived within my means and saved money I wouldn't be eligible for dole after the first six months. Another good reason to get the remaining cash portion of my savings into assets ASAP as apparently the authorities don't care how much wealth you have as assets even though any sort of reasonable cash balance will get you disqualified from benefits.

[pl1]

I suspect that the people who had taken low-end jobs had no other financial choice.

If I found myself in the position of being unemployed, I would most definitely just scrounge as many benefits as possible and try to get more education/training. I've paid plenty of tax and NI so why continue to generate income for the government whilst a bunch of career dole-ees and economic refugees get all the benefit? The whole system is unsustainable and will crash sooner or later so might as well get something out of it whilst it's still paying out.

Of course, since I stupidly lived within my means and saved money I wouldn't be eligible for dole after the first six months. Another good reason to get the remaining cash portion of my savings into assets ASAP as apparently the authorities don't care how much wealth you have as assets even though any sort of reasonable cash balance will get you disqualified from benefits.

Agreed, the most ridiculous law in the UK that should be changed pronto. How is it that savings in a bank = no benefits of any kind; wealth tied up in property = pork away and get your house paid for?

[Si1]

Of course, since I stupidly lived within my means and saved money I wouldn't be eligible for dole after the first six months. Another good reason to get the remaining cash portion of my savings into assets ASAP as apparently the authorities don't care how much wealth you have as assets even though any sort of reasonable cash balance will get you disqualified from benefits.

or just pay it into a pension wrapper...

[Trampa501]

or just pay it into a pension wrapper...

I think I'd sooner buy a load of premium bonds.

[Number79]

Did anyone see this feature on Channel 4 news just now ? Scary, but probably close to the real situation out there.

I must admit I admired that woman who could no longer find HR/office work, and has resorted to cleaning homes for a living. But in her position I'd just get the bills paid by the government. She can't be much better off by doing this work, and it would probably work against her if she tried to get similar work to what she's done in the past - probably better to do some study and/or OU stuff.She's worked hard for enough years and paid enough into the system. Why should some chav who's never worked get payments and not her?

I agree but the fact is that it is money that we dont have and if it doesnt kill the uk then it will certainly kill the future prospects of our children.

Wifeys friend just lost a chunk of her work, something like £9k a year but it is money that she needs. She is now at the point of saying 'bolox' and can sit back and let the taxpayer pick up the tab for her rent and kids. I could write a whole essay about the damage that the welfare system has caused and why it is a self perpetuating loop of destruction but I think that we can all see it.

I cant blame her just as I cant blame foreigners coming here for better wages, if the system is that daft then it begs to be played and it would be rude not to.

There is no quick fix, there is no easy fix, so there is no way that anyone needing votes will attempt any real fix. I really cant see anything but a massive bust coming tbh especially in a country that has little industry, dwindling supplies of fuel and increasing ownership by foreign interests.

[OnlyMe]

[Trampa501]

I agree but the fact is that it is money that we dont have and if it doesnt kill the uk then it will certainly kill the future prospects of our children.

Wifeys friend just lost a chunk of her work, something like £9k a year but it is money that she needs. She is now at the point of saying 'bolox' and can sit back and let the taxpayer pick up the tab for her rent and kids. I could write a whole essay about the damage that the welfare system has caused and why it is a self perpetuating loop of destruction but I think that we can all see it.

I cant blame her just as I cant blame foreigners coming here for better wages, if the system is that daft then it begs to be played and it would be rude not to.

There is no quick fix, there is no easy fix, so there is no way that anyone needing votes will attempt any real fix. I really cant see anything but a massive bust coming tbh especially in a country that has little industry, dwindling supplies of fuel and increasing ownership by foreign interests.

The other point is you can bust a gut building up a new small business whether it be house-cleaning, taking in washing, painting and decorating or whatever. Then there's a surge of legal European workers who come in and flood the market leading to either cuts in already mediocre earnings or no work at all. The woman in the news item may escape this, as she's based in Guildford, but it's become a show-stopper in some cities.

[Trampa501]

Thanks for the link to the clip!

[TheCountOfNowhere]

or just pay it into a pension wrapper...

Did you mean Crapper

[bendy]

the current middle classes need to be wiped out imo.

their skillset is next to nothing other than attending meeting after meeting after meeting to talk about some theoretical BS that they'll achieve by getting their lower paid team to do the actual work.

they never seem to want to improve on their skills or knowledge, happy that they'll sit in their position until happy retirement (which they probably will).

the upper classes do at least hold some (all) power.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Not unique to the uk

http://www.businessinsider.com/22-statistics-that-prove-the-middle-class-is-being-systematically-wiped-out-of-existence-in-america-2010-7?op=1

[Si1]

I think I'd sooner buy a load of premium bonds.

I don't mean to be difficult, but you simply don't understand what I said there, you can have your money in a pension wrapper invested in cash, if you want

[Number79]

I think I'd sooner buy a load of premium bonds.

I never imagined that anyone here would say something like that tbh.

We talk about 'dead money' when arguing about renting but I cant think of anything deader than premium bonds.

[123Jim]

Job movement, that's all.

No room for marketing managers selling timeshares to financial services salesmen selling employment insurance to estate agents selling BTL to marketing managers.

Bring on the real jobs. Bring on making Dennis Sabres again in Guildford.

[miko]

the current middle classes need to be wiped out imo.

their skillset is next to nothing other than attending meeting after meeting after meeting to talk about some theoretical BS that they'll achieve by getting their lower paid team to do the actual work.

they never seem to want to improve on their skills or knowledge, happy that they'll sit in their position until happy retirement (which they probably will).

the upper classes do at least hold some (all) power.

I think you have mixed up the middle classes with middle managment . The middle classes are made up from people doing all kinds of jobs. Any society that wipes out its middle class wipes itself out in the end.

[TwoWolves]

I think you have mixed up the middle classes with middle managment . The middle classes are made up from people doing all kinds of jobs. Any society that wipes out its middle class wipes itself out in the end.

+1 Somebody gets it at last.

[cybernoid]

I think you have mixed up the middle classes with middle managment . The middle classes are made up from people doing all kinds of jobs. Any society that wipes out its middle class wipes itself out in the end.

I wonder what channel 4 news meant by middle class. The hr woman is performing a more useful function now as a cleaner. Pointless middle management company Audi people are just going back to where they would always have been had it not been for the last 10 years free money. All of those types thought of themselves as getting on in life and now middle class, it was an illusion, they weren't doing anything useful. Cleaning, now that's useful.

[ken_ichikawa]

I think you have mixed up the middle classes with middle managment . The middle classes are made up from people doing all kinds of jobs. Any society that wipes out its middle class wipes itself out in the end.

Taiwan?

They became M shaped at the end of the 1990s.

They for the 3rd year running have the lowest birth rate in the world.

[ken_ichikawa]

I wonder what channel 4 news meant by middle class. The hr woman is performing a more useful function now as a cleaner. Pointless middle management company Audi people are just going back to where they would always have been had it not been for the last 10 years free money. All of those types thought of themselves as getting on in life and now middle class, it was an illusion, they weren't doing anything useful. Cleaning, now that's useful.

Well I for one would have liked at least a bite of the biscuit like they did.

[eric pebble]

I wonder what channel 4 news meant by middle class. The hr woman is performing a more useful function now as a cleaner. Pointless middle management company Audi people are just going back to where they would always have been had it not been for the last 10 years free money. All of those types thought of themselves as getting on in life and now middle class, it was an illusion, they weren't doing anything useful. Cleaning, now that's useful.

I'm afraid I agree with you on this ENTIRELY. The last 10+ years - of Niue Labia - was a decade+ of UTTER DELUSION, MASSIVE FRAUD, MASS HYSTERIA & INSANITY IMHO...... I thought this at the time - e.g. watching all those numpties driving around in their 4x4's bought on HP, watching and listening to the MASS DELUSION of "house prices always go up" & all that F*CKING PROPERTY PORN on tv - which - incidentally - STILL SEEMS TO BE WITH US!!?!??!? : :angry: :angry: :angry: WHY CAN'T WE BE RID OF TV PWOPERTY PORN, FOR ONCE & FOR ALL TIME??? :angry: :angry: :angry: [etc etc.]

- At the time - I was just so P1SSED OFF with how STUPID & DELUDED people were...........

Of course - I was labelled a Cassandra - and I felt like Socrates.... Sometimes wish I had taken the hemlock tbh... :angry:

Edited July 14, 2011 by eric pebble

[ken_ichikawa]

Of course, since I stupidly lived within my means and saved money I wouldn't be eligible for dole after the first six months. Another good reason to get the remaining cash portion of my savings into assets ASAP as apparently the authorities don't care how much wealth you have as assets even though any sort of reasonable cash balance will get you disqualified from benefits.

I am ineligible for JSA, thus I feel no guilt at dodgying, yes dodging not avoiding, as many taxes as possible.