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John Lewis Style Public Services .....

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I like the way that John Lewis does business.

If their business model is going to emulated when it comes to the provision of public services, we could all be in for an improvement.

As someone said : You don't have to be smart, you just have to know who to copy.

I also like the idea of withdrawing monopoly powers wherever possible, including those where the state has granted them to themselves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8629350/John-Lewis-style-public-services-to-break-state-monopoly.html

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I like the way that John Lewis does business.

If their business model is going to emulated when it comes to the provision of public services, we could all be in for an improvement.

As someone said : You don't have to be smart, you just have to know who to copy.

I also like the idea of withdrawing monopoly powers wherever possible, including those where the state has granted them to themselves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8629350/John-Lewis-style-public-services-to-break-state-monopoly.html

I agree. That is actually the key.

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I agree. That is actually the key.

Monopoly powers for the state mean that we are paying Harrods Food Hall prices and getting Tesco quality. I would be very happy if both the costs and the quality were both the same as Waitrose.

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Anyone care to give some examples of the types of thing there should be competition in?

It is all very well saying they should be opened up to "John Lewis" style providers (and presumably Tesco and Asda style ones too) but which specific services are we talking about?

I could set up a shop selling similar things to JL but I can't suddenly start offering to do environmental health kitchen inspections or assessing planning applications. I could win a contract to do it but how would that be better than state provision if we have a private sector monopoly.

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I could set up a shop selling similar things to JL but I can't suddenly start offering to do environmental health kitchen inspections or assessing planning applications. I could win a contract to do it but how would that be better than state provision if we have a private sector monopoly.

Environmental health needs no inspectors the market will sort it out. So you buy a dodgy kebab, you get violently ill?

You no longer visit this place.... it cleans up or goes out of biz.

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Anyone care to give some examples of the types of thing there should be competition in?

It is all very well saying they should be opened up to "John Lewis" style providers (and presumably Tesco and Asda style ones too) but which specific services are we talking about?

I could set up a shop selling similar things to JL but I can't suddenly start offering to do environmental health kitchen inspections or assessing planning applications. I could win a contract to do it but how would that be better than state provision if we have a private sector monopoly.

I agree that it is completely insane to replace public sector monopolies with private sector monopolies.

An example is rubbish collection. The privatisation of collection to Veolia in my council just means that the monopoly powers have been transferred. Unless there is true competition, assets and services are better off in the hands of the state than in the private sector due to the state's cost of capital advantage.

The same errors were made in things like the privatisation of rail services. All we have now are private monopolies in areas of the country and no competition on any routes.

I also think that it is insane for the state to impose a carbon tax on flights at a level that is 2 to 3 times higher than the cost of private sector provision of carbon neutrality.

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Environmental health needs no inspectors the market will sort it out. So you buy a dodgy kebab, you get violently ill?

You no longer visit this place.... it cleans up or goes out of biz.

That's great, but wouldn't the post-mortem have to be conducted by the public sector? :unsure:

Edited by CrashConnoisseur

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The point is that most of the things in the public sector are either naturally monopolies, or aren't paid for. So not sure where a private company can fit in.

They sold anything they could and in many cases had to create pretend competition to make it work. Phones, Gas, Water, Energy, Trains. Some worked a bit, some are still a mess. Although I'm all for small govt and more competition, I'm not sure if you added up all the costs and benefits any of those really made sense.

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I agree that it is completely insane to replace public sector monopolies with private sector monopolies.

An example is rubbish collection. The privatisation of collection to Veolia in my council just means that the monopoly powers have been transferred. Unless there is true competition, assets and services are better off in the hands of the state than in the private sector due to the state's cost of capital advantage.

The same errors were made in things like the privatisation of rail services. All we have now are private monopolies in areas of the country and no competition on any routes.

I also think that it is insane for the state to impose a carbon tax on flights at a level that is 2 to 3 times higher than the cost of private sector provision of carbon neutrality.

You can privatise services without monopolies. Again, looking at bin collections, we have 2 providers in our area. You pay "per bin lift" and you choose which provider you want to go with on the basis of price, frequency of collections, level of segregation etc.

The key is competition for the consumer instead of competing for business from a council and then gouging the consumer.....

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You can privatise services without monopolies. Again, looking at bin collections, we have 2 providers in our area. You pay "per bin lift" and you choose which provider you want to go with on the basis of price, frequency of collections, level of segregation etc.

The key is competition for the consumer instead of competing for business from a council and then gouging the consumer.....

Whoever thought out the privatisation of rubbish collection in your area thought it through and it is a good system. It would be better if there were 3 or 4 providers than 2 but that is a relatively minor quibble.

There are some publicly funded services that can be structured in a similar fashion and others that can't.

It would be nice to be able to take the 16.37 from London to Reading on Capital Connect or the 16.43 from London to Reading on SW Trains. Unfortunately, that is not a choice that we have .....

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Environmental health needs no inspectors the market will sort it out. So you buy a dodgy kebab, you get violently ill?

You no longer visit this place.... it cleans up or goes out of biz.

Saw a program on environmental health inspectors. Business owners get so much leeway it's stupid. First warning, second warning, third warning, "Oh, ok you've wiped up a bit with a dirty rag, we'll be back in 6 months, but we'll call you first to know when we're coming".

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Environmental health needs no inspectors the market will sort it out. So you buy a dodgy kebab, you get violently ill?

You no longer visit this place.... it cleans up or goes out of biz.

Yeah in a very nice simplistic view this is what happens.

Is it really a good idea to leave something like this to be either totally unregulated?

Taking your example:

1. I buy a dodgey Kebab

2. I get violently ill

3. I end up in hospital. The NHS foots the bill (£££££).

4. I die. Yes, I won't be visiting the kebab shop anymore - because I'm dead.

So in this instance, might it be cheaper and safer to have public food safety officials? Prevention is better than cure and all that.

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Saw a program on environmental health inspectors. Business owners get so much leeway it's stupid. First warning, second warning, third warning, "Oh, ok you've wiped up a bit with a dirty rag, we'll be back in 6 months, but we'll call you first to know when we're coming".

Yep. It's a joke. Most inspectors are driven by the system into a "tick boxes" type of target. I mean, the little boxes themselves becomes their real target, and not the actual cleanliness of the inspected places.

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Environmental health needs no inspectors the market will sort it out. So you buy a dodgy kebab, you get violently ill?

You no longer visit this place.... it cleans up or goes out of biz.

Or your family goes there and takes it's revenge on the owner. An eye for and eye n all that.

It's up to the Big Society cricket bat to sort it, because it's fantasyland thinking to imagine that the 'market'

will fix anything.

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I think there is another aspect to this and that is the extraction of 'rent' by the various players in the land market.

What is needed to improve the quality and quantity of the housing stock is for profits to be reinvested.

As you know, I favour the creation of mutual 'building socieities' that actually build homes to rent to suit a variety of pockets.

(not just the 'affordable' end, the focus on which has the effect of lowering the quality of the housing stock over time).

Sure, I agree. Reducing rent is vital for the whole economy. (See my forum signature, below.)

I was referring to public services "value for money".

And yes, lower property costs would help here as well.

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Yeah in a very nice simplistic view this is what happens.

Is it really a good idea to leave something like this to be either totally unregulated?

Taking your example:

1. I buy a dodgey Kebab

2. I get violently ill

3. I end up in hospital. The NHS foots the bill (£££££).

4. I die. Yes, I won't be visiting the kebab shop anymore - because I'm dead.

So in this instance, might it be cheaper and safer to have public food safety officials? Prevention is better than cure and all that.

You are also presuming that individuals can identify the source / vector easily. Look at the German E.coli cases, I doubt any of the individuals could pin down the source by themselves. OK the EH authorities didn't do well initially, but still....

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The promise of privatisation being so much cheaper and better than public sector services was a complete bunch of crap so I don't really expect any new 'bright' ideas from a grinning Tory living in a parallel universe to be any better. All I want, like most people is for MY taxes to go towards the actual service I am paying for and not on a new guided missile halfway across the globe FFS. The only thing remotely promising is the name John Lewis as I admire their business ethic and only wish that more companies could be like them.

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Royal Mail has one of these so called "John Lewis Schemes" staff were promised a £1,400 share in the business. One year later they were then told the shares were worth ZERO.

It will be interesting if they do the same with Royal Mail shares after privatisation.

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Environmental health needs no inspectors the market will sort it out. So you buy a dodgy kebab, you get violently ill?

You no longer visit this place.... it cleans up or goes out of biz.

My father in law died recently. Procurator fiscal demanded a post mortem because of the possibility that he'd eaten the equivalent of your " dodgy kebab".

Which is why you need inspectors - "violently ill" can sometimes mean dying. Inspectors find out quicker than the market and stop other people possibly dying.

The all-powerful market can undo death, although its certainly true you never eat in the same place again.

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