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In Defence Of The 'sheeple'


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On the 'poor sheeple' point ; they have to suffer as a consequence of their actions. Personal responsibility.

Interesting concept this 'Personal responsibility' idea. Is it a bit like when a banker drives his bank into the ground and then gets a bonus and a fat pension?

Or is 'personal responsibility', like taxes, only for the 'little people'?

The evidence suggests that 'personal responsibility' is just another one of those 'values' that are jettisoned by the people in charge if they become inconvenient- this being so why should the 'poor sheeple' not follow their example?

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The evidence suggests that 'personal responsibility' is just another one of those 'values' that are jettisoned by the people in charge if they become inconvenient- this being so why should the 'poor sheeple' not follow their example?

You post proves the point perfectly.

People are sheeple. If we weren't we would have voted in a brand new government and a brand new type of leadership.

We don't, because in contrast to your greedy banker analogy, we are fearful of change. We vote for what we know over what we want even though we have the power to live however we like.

That is what makes us sheeple.

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Interesting concept this 'Personal responsibility' idea. Is it a bit like when a banker drives his bank into the ground and then gets a bonus and a fat pension?

Or is 'personal responsibility', like taxes, only for the 'little people'?

The evidence suggests that 'personal responsibility' is just another one of those 'values' that are jettisoned by the people in charge if they become inconvenient- this being so why should the 'poor sheeple' not follow their example?

...they do because everyone is a sheep, but some sheep are better ( or think they are better) than other sheep,....back to adverts for sheep I don't think I have ever seen so many for insurance as there are at the moment, is this where we have got to?.....selling of fear. ;)

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You post proves the point perfectly.

People are sheeple. If we weren't we would have voted in a brand new government and a brand new type of leadership.

We don't, because in contrast to your greedy banker analogy, we are fearful of change. We vote for what we know over what we want even though we have the power to live however we like.

That is what makes us sheeple.

Which box should I have picked for that?

... is this where we have got to?.....selling of fear. ;)

I think we have been there for a long time. With regard to house prices it was a fear of never being able to afford the loan on one. Now it is becoming fear of being unable to continue paying pack the loan. I think what we are waiting for here is the time when the fear is "if I don't sell now, how much more will I lose 6 months down the line".

Of course insurance is all about fear of the unexpected, unless it is compulsory, in which case buying it is often due to fear of the consequences of being caught without it.

Keeping up with the neighbours is all about fear too, not wanting to appear dated, unfashionable or poor. It's a shame that trying to avoid the first 2 often leads to the latter.

Some things you have to accept unless you want to fight a battle with high costs, little chance of winning and relatively little reward. Getting over the fear of not buying or doing things which you are not forced to is great for your own contentment.

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You post proves the point perfectly.

People are sheeple. If we weren't we would have voted in a brand new government and a brand new type of leadership.

We don't, because in contrast to your greedy banker analogy, we are fearful of change. We vote for what we know over what we want even though we have the power to live however we like.

That is what makes us sheeple.

No, it doesn't. Where was the choice of this brand new government? Not being willing to take a big risk and vote for someone who might be very different but is also quite probably even worse than the establishment doesn't make people sheep. Simply following everyone else without question is what does. For lots of people to get on with their lives and not try to force change through doesn't make them sheep either.

No individual has the power to live however they would like unless they live in complete, untouched isolation. And if you're not talking individuals then you're saying that people need to act like sheep in order to not be sheep.

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We are a group animal, and we have evolved a fairly sophisticated set of behaviours both to support that tendency and to allow us to be selfish (i.e. we ain't ants). We look for consensus and agreement. At the same time, we have a breaking point.

In other words, I don't think being a 'sheeple' (if by that we merely mean someone who follows consensus as a default) is that bad as long as we recognise and act on the fact that, under certain circumstances, the benefits of consensus may be overtaken by its disadvantages.

Crossing the ocean in a convoy is a good strategy. Sailing into an iceberg in a convoy is a bad one.

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I think we have been there for a long time. With regard to house prices it was a fear of never being able to afford the loan on one. Now it is becoming fear of being unable to continue paying pack the loan. I think what we are waiting for here is the time when the fear is "if I don't sell now, how much more will I lose 6 months down the line".

Of course insurance is all about fear of the unexpected, unless it is compulsory, in which case buying it is often due to fear of the consequences of being caught without it.

Keeping up with the neighbours is all about fear too, not wanting to appear dated, unfashionable or poor. It's a shame that trying to avoid the first 2 often leads to the latter.

Some things you have to accept unless you want to fight a battle with high costs, little chance of winning and relatively little reward. Getting over the fear of not buying or doing things which you are not forced to is great for your own contentment.

...So true.....maybe the answer is to try and be an individual, do things your own way, avoid following the crowd, cease fearing the future, have confidence in yourself and your abilities.....and most importantly not caring to much what others think.......let them think what they like.......have no fear. ;)

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Which box should I have picked for that?

The box for your party

No, it doesn't. Where was the choice of this brand new government? Not being willing to take a big risk and vote for someone who might be very different but is also quite probably even worse than the establishment doesn't make people sheep.

Perhaps it depends on your idea of sheep-like behaviour. You were waiting for someone to give you a new herd to follow.. an independent thinker might form their own party and offer leadership.

People like to follow. We like to be led. We might think independently but we enjoy the comfort of acting in conformity. Like sheep.

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Perhaps it depends on your idea of sheep-like behaviour. You were waiting for someone to give you a new herd to follow.. an independent thinker might form their own party and offer leadership.

Having plenty of other things to do with my life does not make me someone simply waiting for a new herd to follow. I've plenty of things that I'd rather do than, to use your analogy, try to be the biggest sheep in the herd. Being pragmatic, knowing that your talents don't lie in leadership, and the odds of actually being heard by enough, does not make someone a sheep. Sheeple are the ones who simply go ahead with whatever everyone else does without giving it any thought.

People like to follow. We like to be led. We might think independently but we enjoy the comfort of acting in conformity. Like sheep.

No. Some of us like things to not descend into chaos, and to have things running smoothly enough to allow us to get on with whatever we choose to do. Big difference.

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Having plenty of other things to do with my life does not make me someone simply waiting for a new herd to follow. I've plenty of things that I'd rather do than, to use your analogy, try to be the biggest sheep in the herd. Being pragmatic, knowing that your talents don't lie in leadership, and the odds of actually being heard by enough, does not make someone a sheep. Sheeple are the ones who simply go ahead with whatever everyone else does without giving it any thought.

I don't doubt that politics is not your biggest concern.

I suggest that most people follow political herds (Lab/Lib/Con/Gre etc) because it is easier than putting your head above the parapet and proposing a new idea for a party. You say sheeple are people who go with the crowd without giving it any thought. I think our definitions are close. I am not suggesting it is easy to break away from the herd btw, but if we didn't have this herd like thinking there would be a much wider variety of political parties. There aren't because people don't vote for them. They like what they know and are comfortable with. Which is fine.. but if you are happy to be complacent, you have to accept that others will take advantage of it. Just like with economic sheeple.

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I don't doubt that politics is not your biggest concern.

I suggest that most people follow political herds (Lab/Lib/Con/Gre etc) because it is easier than putting your head above the parapet and proposing a new idea for a party. You say sheeple are people who go with the crowd without giving it any thought. I think our definitions are close. I am not suggesting it is easy to break away from the herd btw, but if we didn't have this herd like thinking there would be a much wider variety of political parties. There aren't because people don't vote for them. They like what they know and are comfortable with. Which is fine.. but if you are happy to be complacent, you have to accept that others will take advantage of it. Just like with economic sheeple.

Some things you have to accept unless you want to fight a battle with high costs, little chance of winning and relatively little reward.

Politics is one the cases I was referring to here. Even if you do form your own party, it will be a long, long road before it even has a chance of getting into power. Look at the Lib Dems for example, originally formed from established politicians.

Until your own party establishes significant influence, if it ever does, you will still be forced to live by the same rules as you do now.

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I thought I'd stick in a word of support for the 'sheeple' (or at least the suggestion that it's a demeaning and illogical construct).

I'd also suggest that, by and large, the "sheeple" seem to have done much better out of this than HPC gurus!!

  • Lets face it, most of the population did not buy a house at peak prices - circa 2007.

  • Whilst it was fun to laugh at the haphazadous folk on shows such as Property Ladder, the truth is that they always seemed to make five or even six figure profits.

  • HPC predictions were wrong many times over, those who have been around this board a while will know just how many guranteed predictions backed up by whizzy analysis turned out to be utterly wrong!

  • Owners have done very well out of the low interest rates, my mortgage payments are substantially less than the equivalent rents in my area. Sure these will surely go up but there are some very tasty long term fixes out there now

Meanwhile the wise members of HPC are paying increased rents and seeing their savings lose value.

Who's in the better position? There will of course be winners and losers throughout.

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I don't doubt that politics is not your biggest concern.

I suggest that most people follow political herds (Lab/Lib/Con/Gre etc) because it is easier than putting your head above the parapet and proposing a new idea for a party. You say sheeple are people who go with the crowd without giving it any thought. I think our definitions are close. I am not suggesting it is easy to break away from the herd btw, but if we didn't have this herd like thinking there would be a much wider variety of political parties. There aren't because people don't vote for them. They like what they know and are comfortable with. Which is fine.. but if you are happy to be complacent, you have to accept that others will take advantage of it. Just like with economic sheeple.

The big problem is that your definition of sheeple seems to lie along the lines of "someone who doesn't want to have to engage in politics". There are plenty of people who aren't sheeple, and who don't engage in politics simply because they're busy doing other things. They aren't complacent, they aren't simply following the herd; they're not part of the herd, although they're stuck in the same field as the herd. There are three choices - run with the herd, try to steer the herd, or ignore it as much as possible. The first are definitely sheeple, the second (which it seems that you're arguing for) are a different type of sheeple - they want to be sheep, but the important ones. The last group aren't either.

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Who's in the better position? There will of course be winners and losers throughout.

Who would have guessed in 2006 that the real winners would be the gold bugs.

Personally I'd say it's presently one nil to the contrarians.. but they were braver than me. The sheeple (average Joe) have probably broken about even. If they bought between 2005 and 2011 they are probably sitting somewhere between a small loss and a small profit. Anyone who decided to rent or stay with parents longer has probably saved a small fortune in mortgage interest.

In a fiat world the sheeple, free thinkers and contrarians all win in the end. That is the beautiful deception we live in :)

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The big problem is that your definition of sheeple seems to lie along the lines of "someone who doesn't want to have to engage in politics and still votes for one of the main parties even though they don't really agree fully with their politics". There are plenty of people who aren't sheeple, and who don't engage in politics simply because they're busy doing other things. They aren't complacent, they aren't simply following the herd; they're not part of the herd, although they're stuck in the same field as the herd. There are three choices - run with the herd, try to steer the herd, or ignore it as much as possible. The first are definitely sheeple, the second (which it seems that you're arguing for) are a different type of sheeple - they want to be sheep, but the important ones. The last group aren't either.

Ok. To me if a person engages in something (by way of voting as an example) but never really takes the time to understand it, they are behaving in a herd-like fashion.

If a person fully understands it, opposes it but then follows the herd anyway.. I would argue that is still herd-like behaviour, even if they consciously disagree. We can only judge sheep by their actions (following the herd), we don't really know whether underneath they are thinking independently.

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I'd also suggest that, by and large, the "sheeple" seem to have done much better out of this than HPC gurus!!

  • Lets face it, most of the population did not buy a house at peak prices - circa 2007.
  • Whilst it was fun to laugh at the haphazadous folk on shows such as Property Ladder, the truth is that they always seemed to make five or even six figure profits.
  • HPC predictions were wrong many times over, those who have been around this board a while will know just how many guranteed predictions backed up by whizzy analysis turned out to be utterly wrong!
  • Owners have done very well out of the low interest rates, my mortgage payments are substantially less than the equivalent rents in my area. Sure these will surely go up but there are some very tasty long term fixes out there now

Meanwhile the wise members of HPC are paying increased rents and seeing their savings lose value.

Who's in the better position? There will of course be winners and losers throughout.

How were we going to predict bent Politicians and BOE chiefs would divert Billions ££'s of taxpayer funds into supporting House Prices at any cost.

BOE screwing Sterling, the economy, savers and causing massive inflation in support of house prices

Majority bought houses over the time period on I/O fibbing finance and countless tens of thousands mewed.

Many up to their eyeballs which is why Govt is letting them pay down at artificial low interest rates cos the mass defaults could break the elites banking system again (it's also a secret way of letting the bankers repair their balance sheets - again parasitically supported by the taxpayer in a sneaky way).

By the way - you realise that all the so-called anti-laundering data sharing that goes on between bankers is a 'front' to screw us all even more.

From the 'pooled' data they can work out between themselves the optimum mortgage interest rates to charge homeowners without too many defaulting!

Which is why they stuck lending interest rates up far above base rate and well above the previous decades 'range' above base rate!

Edited by erranta
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Hmmm... Sheeple.

A great description of the mass of humanity.

In psychological experiments, about 2/3rds of people will give a lethal electric shock to a person when they get an answer to a question wrong, if a scientist in a white coat tells them to.

That is the defination of a sheeperson.

They are dangerous, and it is why the Elites control them.

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Hmmm... Sheeple.

A great description of the mass of humanity.

"What do you get for pretending the danger’s not real

Meek and obedient you follow the leader

Down well trodden corridors, into the valley of steel

What a surprise!

A look of terminal shock in your eyes

Now things are really what they seem

No, this is no bad dream"

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