Average Annual House Maintenance Costs

[AThirdWay]

So if somebody said to you that renting is more expensive than buying, then you would not argue with them. You would therefore agree that renting is more expensive than buying.

Savvy?

Yeah, but that only works when you say it! When said (typed) about ones OWN opinions, it is correct, savvy?

Anyhoo, stop arguing semantics, we seem to agree on the point, what's your opinion of my decision to pay the extra cash (although the rent/buy divide is far less pronounced in my area than yours it would seem) to keep a level of control of my living enviroment?

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

You can't say anything about maintenance costs because it varies so much from house to house.

Even small houses can have high maintenance charges. I know someone who lives at the end of a small house with a massive drive that costs, ohhh, a fair few quid to tarmac. I can imagine that if you live in an area of susbsidence underpinning walls is not cheap.

Similarly if we're on the dad discussion my dad has spent f*** all on maintenance over the last 10 years as well and the house is OK.

So the answer is it varies, it depends what quality of life you want (if indeed having new windows is the kind of thing that enhances your quality of life) and whether you can be bothered to do the job yourself or not.

[Lepista]

Yeah, but that only works when you say it! When said (typed) about ones OWN opinions, it is correct, savvy?

Anyhoo, stop arguing semantics, we seem to agree on the point,

Thanks for the apology.

...what's your opinion of my decision to pay the extra cash (although the rent/buy divide is far less pronounced in my area than yours it would seem) to keep a level of control of my living enviroment?

Just think it's irrelevant. You pay for the maintenance on the house, whether you carry it out regularly (in direct cost) or when the time comes to sell (in effect deferring payment), in lost sale price potential (or, if you're lucky, the buyer doesn't spot the additional costs, and gives you higher. The new seller then pays, so it's still, on average, the owners cost). To make it simpler, consider a house that never changes owners. Ownership is irrelevant, really.

MAINTENANCE is the key word - it implies maintaining the house at its original standard. After a certain amount of maintenance, the item in question will need replacing. Obviously the boundary as to when an item needs repaired / replaced is grey.

Things wear out, break, corrode, generally fall to bits. You can delay that by maintenance, but it won't ever stop it - there is therefore a minimum spend on such maintenance issues, as there is with a lifespan before things need replaced. spend less on the maintenance, and the replacement period will drop.

[gimble]

You can't say anything about maintenance costs because it varies so much from house to house.

This discussion is about averages, is it not?

[Ash4781]

Not read the thread but there must be so many variables. Suppose you'd have to make a provision for it (I dunno percentage of x), and see what it's like at the end of a year. You might need to take the house to bits and estimate individual maintenance.

[davidg]

Number from a hat: 1% of value pa

Less on a brand new place perhaps, which may justify a premium

Probably a good a guestimate as any. Whether new or not what we are talking about is the long term. In the long term you will need to

i. replace roof every 100 years if tile, slate etc

ii. replace windows every 50 years (some buildings have window frames of oak that are several hundred years old, but some new builds from the 1990s already needed new windows due to kiln drying and rot).

iii. bathroom every 20 years

iv. kitchen every 15 years

v. boiler every 15 years

vi. rewire every 50 years

vii. carpets or flooring every 15 years

viii. repoint once a century

v. redecorate every 5 years

Your 1% basically means that every 100 years you pretty much replace the house, this seems vaguely reasonable based on the above; maybe 15% of the annual rental value would be another estimate.

[numpty]

As I see it, there are at several lots of house maintenance costs to consider if you are going to compare renting with buying.

1. There's the major items house delapidation - eventually, the doors, windows, wiring, roof, etc. will need replaced;

2. Major household fitting, such as carpets, decoration, bathrooms, kitchens, etc.

3. There's also "true" maintenance costs - such as getting someone in to blast the driveway each year, clean the guttering, external painting, etc.

4. There's the "included items" that must be repaired / replaced, such as boilers, fridge / freezers, ovens, etc.

5. There are other costs that could become quite major, but are quite dependent on the original build quality of the structure, and might be insurable against: subsidence, flood, fire, poor quality workmanship (remember that house the other week where the new owners found it was made of 125 year old concrete that had all the qualities of soft mud?);

6. Which leads to: Insurance costs!

I appreciate that there will be many people who come on here and dismiss some of the costs as trivial, and owners who come on and say that they've not spent a penny on their mansion in the last 100 years, however these are either (1) lying; or (2) been very lucky, or (3) in denial, or (4)

You might argue that a new kitchen / bathroom is not relevant for the upkeep of a house, and I'd agree. However, when it comes to sale time, buyers certainly will factor in the cost of replacement of these, so if you have a good one in then it can help maintain the sale price of a house. I would therefore argue that a modern, up to date kitchen / bathroom affaects house price, and must be factored in when considering overall maintenance costs.

I wouldn't be surprised if the long term maintenance cost is in the region of £2,000 - £5,000 per annum.

A surveyor friend of mine reckons the long term maintenance costs is around 2.5% to 3% of the rebuilding costs asuming you are not going to do it yourself.

If you look at carpets and curtains and decoration then the cost could easily bring the total to around 5% of the rebuilding costs

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

This discussion is about averages, is it not?

Yes, I didn't see that in the thread title - I stand corrected.

However, as an individual I would add that the average value means little to me, unless I was a landlord owning a large property portfolio.

In a debate over costs with a property bull, for me maintenance costs are as difficult to pin down as capital appreciation/depreciation.

I do agree will some posters that these costs are insidious and likely to be underestimated by many property owners over time.

[Tonkers]

They also ignore interest payments...

Good thread. Think this is one important thing a lot of people forget about. When people talk about buying or selling their house and 'How much they have made [lost] on it' - they completely ignore all of these costs.

A cost that would not be incurred if you were renting = a cost that has to be included in any calculation.

Simple as that.

[libspero]

Interesting thread..

I've not thought about it particularly, but since renting this place (4 years now), the landlord is on the hook for:

New boiler

New fridge

Painting and decorating throughout (nothing serious, but the cheap skate used some kind of one-coat wonder paint which has faded to reveal writing (?!?!?!) underneath)

Window repair (pane slipped inside frame causing it to jam open)

Toilet repair (ruptured seal between cistern and toilet due to over-tightening during initial installation)

Two replacement hobs (two out of four elements burned out - also discovered at this point that the whole cooker is wired into a 13amp plug socket instead of hard wired )

Insurance

If I tot those up they probably cover a years worth of rent on their own.

That said, if it was my own house I probably would have done a decent job in the first place.

[council dweller]

That seems like a more reasonable estimate.

So, a £300,000 house is going to cost in the region of £3k in maintenance. Or in the order of £250 per month (long term, of course).

...and here in the cheap seats we have have a two bedroom council bungalow coming in at 2,500 over 7 years.

[chronyx]

Two replacement hobs (two out of four elements burned out - also discovered at this point that the whole cooker is wired into a 13amp plug socket instead of hard wired )

If that ring main is not sound (Still a ring and not two radials coming from one breaker), that leg of the ring will have been carrying far too much current, assuming you mean an actual cooker and not just hobs.

Get it checked over by a sparks. An insulation resistance check at least.

[cartimandua51]

As an ex- BTL landlord for 10 years, was always advised 2% of capital value pa. If you have several houses you know that you're in for

a new boiler every other year because the damn twitchy new hyper-efficient boilers only last 7 years;

a couple of new radiators a year because of beds being pushed up against them and, er, used enthusiastically

the tiling's going to fall off the bathroom because the tenants have been drilling holes in it to put up additional shelves (which usually collapse, chipping the bath / washbasin en route down),

the kitchen unit doors are going to come off & you won't be able to replace them because they're no longer in production ..etc etc.

and of, course the odd new roof / double glazing replacement

Admittedly this was student lets; you might get away with less with family tenancies; but then they want a higher standard. Students at least understand that if they don't make a fuss about blu-tack marks on the walls they won't be billed if there are a few more at the end. (Wish the same could be said of their Mummies and Daddies!)

Edited July 6, 2011 by cartimandua51

[libspero]

If that ring main is not sound (Still a ring and not two radials coming from one breaker), that leg of the ring will have been carrying far too much current, assuming you mean an actual cooker and not just hobs.

Get it checked over by a sparks. An insulation resistance check at least.

Thanks for your concern. Just had a look and actually I fibbed.. it's the 4 hobs wired into the socket (the oven is properly hard wired). Perhaps that's allowed.. I'm certainly no sparky but I always thought these high-current units were hard wired.

[chronyx]

Thanks for your concern. Just had a look and actually I fibbed.. it's the 4 hobs wired into the socket (the oven is properly hard wired). Perhaps that's allowed.. I'm certainly no sparky but I always thought these high-current units were hard wired.

Newly qualified so still idealistic and hate cowboys!

[frenchy]

My house is about 70 years old and has it's original roof. Aside from having a bit of moss on it i can't see it needing replacing before i die of old age.

In the time we've been there (5 or 6 years) the only 2 things i can think of which were essential maintenance were

hot water cylinder replaced (leak) = £270 plumber

soffits and fascias repainted + 2x chimneys repointing = £750 builder

fixed some dodgy drainage related to an extension the previous owner installed = £250

= about £250/yr so far

everything else we've done/spent has been adding to or significantly altering the house/garden/outbuildings and was entirely voluntary.

Obviously we have treated exterior doors, painted internal walls and whatnot but that adds maybe another £50 a year, and perhaps another £50 for treating fences and putting petrol in the 30 year old lawn mower i bought on ebay for less than the cost of a new belt for the almost new Flymo i threw in a skip.

Having said that it will probably be struck by an asteroid now.

I think you illustrate the problem very well in your post. You think you have only spent £250 /year maintenance on your house, then you think a little harder and it becomes £350 but then you explain that the money you have spent in the garden/house and outbuildings doesn't count. The thing is it does. Would you have done all this alterations to your house/garden/outbuilding if you were a tenant rather than owner? Unless your alterations increase the value of your house then it is a cost attributed to home ownership and needs to be factored in.

Let me share my experience with you. I rent a house in the UK, in 5 years the landlord has done essentially nothing (apart from a washing machine, a freezer and an electric shower) so he must be thinking that all this rent he is receiving is great BUT the house needs:

a new bathroom,

a new kitchen,

new windows throughout,

a loft insulation,

new internal doors throughout,

a completely new garage,

new paving in garden,

repairs to wall on drive.

I don't care, it is not my house and the rent is cheap but sooner or later he will have to do all the above plus obviously new carpet and paints throughout. My estimation is that the house needs at least £20k but probably £30k if you want to do a good job. If I came to see the house with the intention of buying I would factor this all in and if I already was the owner I would not tolerate living in it.

So from the landlords perspective the house isn't costing him anything until the day of reckoning...

[OnlyMe]

I think you illustrate the problem very well in your post. You think you have only spent £250 /year maintenance on your house, then you think a little harder and it becomes £350 but then you explain that the money you have spent in the garden/house and outbuildings doesn't count. The thing is it does. Would you have done all this alterations to your house/garden/outbuilding if you were a tenant rather than owner? Unless your alterations increase the value of your house then it is a cost attributed to home ownership and needs to be factored in.

Let me share my experience with you. I rent a house in the UK, in 5 years the landlord has done essentially nothing (apart from a washing machine, a freezer and an electric shower) so he must be thinking that all this rent he is receiving is great BUT the house needs:

a new bathroom,

a new kitchen,

new windows throughout,

a loft insulation,

new internal doors throughout,

a completely new garage,

new paving in garden,

repairs to wall on drive.

I don't care, it is not my house and the rent is cheap but sooner or later he will have to do all the above plus obviously new carpet and paints throughout. My estimation is that the house needs at least £20k but probably £30k if you want to do a good job. If I came to see the house with the intention of buying I would factor this all in and if I already was the owner I would not tolerate living in it.

So from the landlords perspective the house isn't costing him anything until the day of reckoning...

Many landlords never expect there to be a day of reckoning - they have no intention of putting a single additional penny into the property other than is required to keep the renter from moving out (or avoiding voids).

Also the renters themselves have no reason to improve (with short term tenancies) and they won'd want to spend much on furnishings on temporary accommodation either.

Total kryptonite to the superman consumer economy.

Edited July 6, 2011 by OnlyMe

[council dweller]

a new boiler every other year because the damn twitchy new hyper-efficient boilers only last 7 years;

Does anyone know if there's a make of boiler that will last 25 to 30 years and still be hyper-efficient?

I'm afraid the council will still replace mine even though it's working well and has done for 25 years.

[pilchardthecat]

I think you illustrate the problem very well in your post. You think you have only spent £250 /year maintenance on your house, then you think a little harder and it becomes £350 but then you explain that the money you have spent in the garden/house and outbuildings doesn't count. The thing is it does. Would you have done all this alterations to your house/garden/outbuilding if you were a tenant rather than owner? Unless your alterations increase the value of your house then it is a cost attributed to home ownership and needs to be factored in.

Let me share my experience with you. I rent a house in the UK, in 5 years the landlord has done essentially nothing (apart from a washing machine, a freezer and an electric shower) so he must be thinking that all this rent he is receiving is great BUT the house needs:

a new bathroom,

a new kitchen,

new windows throughout,

a loft insulation,

new internal doors throughout,

a completely new garage,

new paving in garden,

repairs to wall on drive.

I don't care, it is not my house and the rent is cheap but sooner or later he will have to do all the above plus obviously new carpet and paints throughout. My estimation is that the house needs at least £20k but probably £30k if you want to do a good job. If I came to see the house with the intention of buying I would factor this all in and if I already was the owner I would not tolerate living in it.

So from the landlords perspective the house isn't costing him anything until the day of reckoning...

Your rented house probably needs those things because it has been neglected

All of the things i have done (beyond the actual maintenance/preventative maintenance i mentioned previously) have been improvements that i would not be allowed to make to a rented property, and which if i decided i wanted them would have no grounds to make the landlord provide them (such as a wooden den/treehousething for the kids, and a large new outbuilding for tools etc, lots of new planting in the garden) none of which were even remotely necessary and if anything would add to the value of the house.

I'm sure there are some good reasons to remain in rented accommodation (flexibility, etc) but the notion that home ownership is some sort of horrible costly time-bomb isn't one of them. It might make you feel better thinking that it is, but my experience tells me otherwise. And as i mentioned previously, having the flexibility and independence to change things without having to move and to carry out work to a decent standard at a convenient time etc is prefereble to me.

My prior experience of rented accommodation was similar to your i suppose - everything was cheap and shoddy and had been mistreated by various previous occupiers. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned an analogy with car ownership - well a rented house is the equivalent of a Hertz hire car

[ccc]

I dunno - most of the really big bills come about because people fail to pay the little bills (missing tile on roof = rotten timbers in roof etc)

In 20 years of home/debt ownership i've not yet had a really scary bill

Of course - but you do appreciate it could happen tomorrow ? And factoring that in makes sense IMO.

They also ignore interest payments...

Ah yes. But then it is not real debt is it...

[Optobear]

Need I go on? 1% p.a. (average, long term) is actually looking a little low to me.

Excellent, I'm paying my landlord about 2.8% of the market price in annual rent. If 1% of that goes on the long term cost, then he is letting me live here at 1.8% pa! Very good, factor in the 3% annualised fall, and I'm well ahead.

[phead]

...So, what do you think happens to those houses that *do* need their roof replacing in the near future? Or do all houses never need roofs replacing?

Sigh, sometimes it's like pulling teeth.

That depends on the type of roof, a flat roof will fail just by someone looking at it, a heavy tile on a modern truss frame roof will outlast its owner. Most spending is simply not maintenance, its style changes.

Every landlord I have ever had has tried to steal the deposit, therefore I should include losing the deposit in the average cost of renting?

[Ethel]

Example: lets say a new kitchen & bathroom every 5 years, at a cost of say £10k each.

WHAAAAAT??? I've just had a new kitchen put in and I'm not planning on changing it again for at least 10 years. Come to think of it, out of all my family and friends I can't think of anyone who's had their kitchen re-done within the last 5 years. My parents have just refurbed one of their 2 bathrooms, but then again it's the first time they've done that particular bathroom in a home they've owned for 25 years!

Probably a good a guestimate as any. Whether new or not what we are talking about is the long term. In the long term you will need to

i. replace roof every 100 years if tile, slate etc

ii. replace windows every 50 years (some buildings have window frames of oak that are several hundred years old, but some new builds from the 1990s already needed new windows due to kiln drying and rot).

iii. bathroom every 20 years

iv. kitchen every 15 years

v. boiler every 15 years

vi. rewire every 50 years

vii. carpets or flooring every 15 years

viii. repoint once a century

v. redecorate every 5 years

Your 1% basically means that every 100 years you pretty much replace the house, this seems vaguely reasonable based on the above; maybe 15% of the annual rental value would be another estimate.

Aha, this sounds like a more reasonable timescale for kitchens, bathrooms and everything else.

So if we go with the 1% figure that means it's going to cost me about £2k a year (on average) on my home. Wow, it sounds like a lot when you say it like that.

[Lepista]

WHAAAAAT??? I've just had a new kitchen put in and I'm not planning on changing it again for at least 10 years. Come to think of it, out of all my family and friends I can't think of anyone who's had their kitchen re-done within the last 5 years. My parents have just refurbed one of their 2 bathrooms, but then again it's the first time they've done that particular bathroom in a home they've owned for 25 years!

Aha, this sounds like a more reasonable timescale for kitchens, bathrooms and everything else.

So if we go with the 1% figure that means it's going to cost me about £2k a year (on average) on my home. Wow, it sounds like a lot when you say it like that.

Of course that is not the norm - I was replying to allfiredup, with his suggestion that thee top end mainenance cost would be around £5k, if you replaced your kitchen /bathroom every few years. Clearly, the upper end long term annual mainenance cost is much much greater than the £50 he suggested, likewise the upper end is much much greater than the £5k he was suggesting. Here's a fuller extract of the quote you pasted above, this time not taken out of context:

Of course it does. Some people need a new kitchen every few years some people dont bother for 30 years... or more.

Some like expensive kitchens and some are not bothered.

Ok move my bottom figure up a bit if you like but its still a massive range inbetween.

What you're suggesting is more likely to push the higher end up massively, not push the lower end down.

Example: lets say a new kitchen & bathroom every 5 years, at a cost of say £10k each.

[mitchbux]

Thanks for your concern. Just had a look and actually I fibbed.. it's the 4 hobs wired into the socket (the oven is properly hard wired). Perhaps that's allowed.. I'm certainly no sparky but I always thought these high-current units were hard wired.

Having spent far too much time shopping for ovens last year...

Virtually all built-in single ovens have a 13 amp plug and go straight into a socket. Built in DOUBLE ovens require hard-wiring.

Anyway, back to the figure. We've been spending 5% pa for the last three years, and I can't see it dropping much below 1% avg from now on, despite all that work.