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The Masked Tulip

Women & Ivf

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The Heaven & Earth show on the BBC this morning had an item about women in their 30s and 40s using IVF and talked about the whole issue of whether women should have babies when they are younger, career, etc, and, IMPO, had the usual femminist 'We want it all, we are better than men, etc, etc,' nonsense that has destroyed so much in this country BUT...

...towards the end it briefly moved on to HPs and that one reason why women put off having children is that they cannot afford to have them due to the high HPs in the UK. Someone emailed in and said this very thing...

They also had an item about the two male 'gay' penguins who had tried to hatch a rock in New York zoo - the irony seemed to be lost on the girlies on the programme.

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I think that high house prices are having a huge impact on young couples wanting to have children in this country. Economically it is unfortunate but many women have to work just to pay the bills, even when they have children. I am sure that loads of women would love to have children younger but when you can't provide a decent life for your family it puts people off. The only other option which appears to be the most taken route is that of single parent families who live off the government. Who else can afford to have families in todays economic climate?

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I think that high house prices are having a huge impact on young couples wanting to have children in this country. Economically it is unfortunate but many women have to work just to pay the bills, even when they have children. I am sure that loads of women would love to have children younger but when you can't provide a decent life for your family it puts people off. The only other option which appears to be the most taken route is that of single parent families who live off the government. Who else can afford to have families in todays economic climate?

that and they go out thurs/fri/sat buying cfashions, taking drugs, drinking and lending/spending massive amounts of money while earning very little.

theres a lot of women bought into the line of being simply consumers and having no children is the hidden price they will end up having to pay. look at football now being marketed to women ? footie chicks ? whatever - smoking in women is up. drinking is up. drugs are up. stds are up. depression is up. suicide is up. health is down.

mothers and home cookers are out of fashion and have been since mid 80s.

femeinists forgot - they like children too.

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I am quite simply stunned.

As a female, I'm don't see any real difference between the sexes when it comes to consumerism. In fact, a lot of men I meet I consider to be part of the football, fast car, designer label flock. Where are these terrifyingly materialistic women (outside men's imaginations)?

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Hello Izzy!

I agree - why are the guys on this post appearing so anti-women! Consumerism, greed etc isn't something that isn't specific to women. It is part of our current society as a whole. Men overspend just as much as women. People are people at the end of the day and blaming certain ills on women wanting to have it all is just unhelpful and unfair.

Family values are important and I think many women acknowledge that.

Yvonne

Correcting myself I meant that consumerism, greed etc isn't something that is specific to women.

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I am quite simply stunned.

As a female, I'm don't see any real difference between the sexes when it comes to consumerism. In fact, a lot of men I meet I consider to be part of the football, fast car, designer label flock. Where are these terrifyingly materialistic women (outside men's imaginations)?

it wasnt always the case.

granted, there have always been very strong professional women. but the majority were mothers and i suppose homemakers. since this is now out of fashion they get encouraged to be laddettes by modern media.

after 5-10 years no one wants them as they are middle aged and they are childless and often lonely.

the real career women knew this and accepted it, but the laddettes were not told this in advertisements.

look at how even just foods are marketed.

HP sauce 2005

laddette, boozy britain attitude. oi music.

OXO 1986

family life around a table.

you pick what you want with your life, but dont expect sympathy and taxes when you miss the other choice.

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Guest Charlie The Tramp
OXO 1986

family life around a table.

Ah yes, Katie, she was the lad`s pin up girl, they all wanted to marry a Katie. <_<

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...towards the end it briefly moved on to HPs and that one reason why women put off having children is that they cannot afford to have them due to the high HPs in the UK. Someone emailed in and said this very thing...

Going completely off topic but another significant reason is that women often get really poor service by the NHS for their births. There is a huge shortage of midwives, nurses, cleaners etc giving rise to many problems such as being rushed and bad hygiene. Quite a few women don't want to go through the experience a second time.

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c'mon sisters and feminists...me and dr bubb are taking you on....

fisrt forum discussion diss'ing, then mud wrestling.

no prisoners and no holes barred...

**sorry, i meant holds.

Ah yes, Katie, she was the lad`s pin up girl, they all wanted to marry a Katie.

more like a MILF for me !!!

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Do the women posting here agree: that most advertising (on TV atleast) is geared towards women?

How do you think it influences our beahviour and values?

What do you think of the idea of women taking IVF treatment to become single moms?

Yes, I agree most of the ads are aimed at women, but most of the ads are for cleaning products, food or beauty stuff, not lager.

Everything influences our behaviour and standards, the greatest being family and peers.

Whats so bad about choosing to be a single parent, compared to those (men and women here) who planned to have 2 parents bringing up the child only for one to bugger off sometime down the line?

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Going completely off topic but another significant reason is that women often get really poor service by the NHS for their births. There is a huge shortage of midwives, nurses, cleaners etc giving rise to many problems such as being rushed and bad hygiene. Quite a few women don't want to go through the experience a second time.

Sort of true (though I don't think this would occur to anyone who was planning to get pregnant), but it's not the law that you HAVE to give birth in a hospital.

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Do the women posting here agree: that most advertising (on TV atleast) is geared towards women?

How do you think it influences our beahviour and values?

What do you think of the idea of women taking IVF treatment to become single moms?

Yes, most advertising is aimed at women, but think about it. In many families, the woman takes on most of the responsibility for looking after the family. This means going out, getting the food and washing powder in, new clothes for the kids, new socks for the husband etc. This is changing, but this was the 'traditional' role.

Ofcourse advertising influences us, no use in doing it otherwise. Really we have no need for about 75% os the cr@p we purchase, we just want it. Why do we want it, because everyone else has it and it's hard to be different.

I am not keen on the concept of IVF in any circumstance. I don't think it has been proven without doubt not to impare the health of the offspring created; it damages the woman's body with high dose hormones and it might be viewed as a huge indulgence in a world where unwanted children die of neglect everyday.

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Yes, I agree most of the ads are aimed at women, but most of the ads are for cleaning products, food or beauty stuff, not lager.

what about flash.

in fact, im struggling to pick a cleaning product geared at a single woman.

nowadays they shoot them at the kids usually. todays ads are not the old shake and vac ads....

btw: heres the new 2005 glade tester:

and action !!

-pan to laddette on sofa with can of glade shake and vac blossom in hand, hoover by side.

"irritating men always demanding fidelity and not racking up my cc cards ?"

"smelly knickers laying on the bathroom/living room/bedroom floor ?"

well shake and vac from glade is here......

[cue sound...]

[rolling drum roll]

"...its all you have to do.....

[hi hat]

do the shake and vac....

you put some in your crack...

use some shake and vac

when you bring a fella back....

..if your knickers smells fresh.

your room does to..

everytime you get pissed

-remember what to do...

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Sort of true (though I don't think this would occur to anyone who was planning to get pregnant), but it's not the law that you HAVE to give birth in a hospital.

Thats why I specifically said that it is women getting put off from getting pregnant a second time.

It is true that home births are potentially available but then again midwives are few and far between to service them. I should have added that house prices must be a big reason for the staff shortages as they cant afford to pay mortages etc with their salaries.

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+ A lot of society's problems can be traced back to juveniles raised by single mothers who found it impossible to raise a child properly on tehoir own,

You want this both ways. I don't know if anyone has ever explained the biology of making a baby to you Bubb, but generally a man has to be involved at some point. What about the role of the 'father'? What kind of example did he set by abandoning his offspring? Also, there are still plenty of problem juveniles with father figures around, perhaps men are just as fallible as women.

:rolleyes:

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Dear Dr Bubb and Right Freds Dead,

I don't mean to be personal but you are coming across as women hating men.

I don't know if women are the main consumers. Women may spend more than men. I don't know. However you can't tar women with being to blame for the current situation with high house prices, consumerism etc. Consumerism and greed is something general to both women and men. Yes, women out there have made mistakes, but so have men.

Yes, some women are mass consumers and spend more than they earn - so do men. I would imagine that men tend to spend more on status symbols like fast cars and expensive watches than women. Women have more pressure on them by society to look good and are judged more on their appearances hence more advertising seems to be targeted on them in this area. It is better if people can as far as possible be happy with themselves and not be pulled in to this consumer society which isn't the be all and end all in life. Families and communities and strong social ties are very important too and perhaps this to a degree has been lost of sight of....women though are not to blame for this.

And there is nothing wrong with women wanting careers and lives of their own.

Also I find your attitude quite condescending like women are fools and men aren't and that women don't earn that much money. Plenty women earn good salaries and look after themselves. Personally I'd love to be looked after but it's not a reality with most men and most men can't provide this. And I personally wouldn't go out just looking for a man with money as this isn't the only thing and other things are far more important. I have to say that I believe in a woman building her own security financially as far as possible as in these times it isn't really possible to rely on a man to provide as this isn't possible and isn't desirable and a woman has to look after herself.

Women aren’t better than men, men aren’t better than women. Women and men are just the same in many ways but different in others. Women will always need men and men will always need women. Respect to both sexes and please stop being condescending towards women!

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Advertisers have been disrespectful towards women since the year dot. It has been so much part of common currency that apparently some think it is the normal state of things and hardly worth remarking on.

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Thats why I specifically said that it is women getting put off from getting pregnant a second time.

It is true that home births are potentially available but then again midwives are few and far between to service them. I should have added that house prices must be a big reason for the staff shortages as they cant afford to pay mortages etc with their salaries.

Isn't the average number of kids still 2 point something? It's dropped from 2.4 now hasn't it?

I only had one because I figured out how it happened the first tme ;):D

Theres a shortage of new nurses due to not enough Uni places, each place has at least 4 people apply for it. Also, living on the bursary is near impossible(especially if you're a mature student with a family -like me), with little chance of supplementing your income, as you'll be on shiftwork. Saying all this, I'm applying for it and hoping to start next September.

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yvonnechristina

i dont dislike women. i do dislike women who want it both ways.

i just dont like binge drinking society - women or men.

i just feel that since existance there was a need for a parnership in reproduction, and to see new women abandoning that in favour of hunting the meat and having a cometitive run on men means theres a void somewhere. - which ever way you cut it.

and i think we are paying it in the breakdown in social society.

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what about flash.

in fact, im struggling to pick a cleaning product geared at a single woman.

nowadays they shoot them at the kids usually. todays ads are not the old shake and vac ads....

btw: heres the new 2005 glade tester:

and action !!

-pan to laddette on sofa with can of glade shake and vac blossom in hand, hoover by side.

"irritating men always demanding fidelity and not racking up my cc cards ?"

"smelly knickers laying on the bathroom/living room/bedroom floor ?"

well shake and vac from glade is here......

[cue sound...]

[rolling drum roll]

"...its all you have to do.....

[hi hat]

do the shake and vac....

you put some in your crack...

use some shake and vac

when you bring a fella back....

..if your knickers smells fresh.

your room does to..

everytime you get pissed

-remember what to do...

LMAO :lol:

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Izzy,

Your:

"I don't know if anyone has ever explained the biology of making a baby to you Bubb, but generally a man has to be involved at some point."

Have a look at the title of the thread: IVF. Do you really not know what that means?

(I once met the Doctor who devised the first IVF treatment. His 65th birthday cake had a sperm stencilled in sugar traveling across it)

Yes, but unless I've missed something, men still have to supply the sperm. And I think the number of women raiding the local sperm bank (how many are there in the county?) are a tiny, tiny minority. Hardly a threat to every neighbourhood in country.

If you want to trade sexist steriotypes, men are only too happy to give their sprem away for free, with v little forethought. (or fore anything else) :D

There is a Greek saying which, translated, goes, 'You should be careful where you put your willy and your signature'. Young men ought to be made to ponder that.

Izzy,

Your:

"I don't know if anyone has ever explained the biology of making a baby to you Bubb, but generally a man has to be involved at some point."

Have a look at the title of the thread: IVF. Do you really not know what that means?

IVF stands for In Vitro Fertilisation. In Vivo Fertilisation would be the normal way in which the ovum is fertilised by the sperm within the fallopian tube, forming the zygote.

Do I pass the science test Sir?

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I don't think that UK women are being particularly selfish, naive in some quarters maybe, but no more selfish than blokes.

Most blokes don't want to commit. Even if they did, we don't have a shared understanding of what marriage, commitment, or family is all about. People are now more materialistic, and have relationships like they have their career, i.e. it's something that is stimulating and exciting, and then when it gets too tough you ditch it for something more stimulating and exciting. Living for your family or society is less high up people's priorities.

Of course, house prices don't help matters at all, but even then many people would be more prepared to spend time on doing their house up or buy more designer f*cking sofas than chill out with their kids and read with them etc.

Harsh?

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Thank you RichM, for a sensible non sexist input.

Finding a man with family values is pretty hard nowadays and women aren't to blame for all of this.

Selfishness and excess consumerism and a throw away society are general problems with todays society , not something specific to women.

Promotion of family values would be a good thing for all concerned. However Labour's policies just erode family values further.

I don't actually agree with IVF being funded on the NHS. I think there are bigger priorities.

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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