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Independent: Treasury Poised To Levy 'land Tax' To Ease Blight Of Derelictsites.

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'Treasury poised to levy 'land tax' to ease blight of derelict sites':

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/new...ticle316501.ece

The plan would be for tax to be paid when planning permission is received for a scheme. A valuation would be made on the increase in value of a property created by the planning change, and tax paid on the uplift.

A recent study for the Government found that the value of farm land shot up when it was deemed suitable for housing development. An acre of land in south-east England leapt from £9,000 a hectare to £2.7m, and in the north-east it jumped from £7,500 to £1.2m.

Mr Morley said the new tax would prevent properties lying empty for years. "You only have to look at some of the tower blocks alongside the motorway to Heathrow that have been empty for years and years," he said. "I think a land tax is a very good way of dealing with some of those problems." He added that Gordon Brown was not "afraid to introduce some smart green taxes".

Edited by Jeff Ross

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It is one of the fundamental beliefs of totalitarians everywhere that somewhere, out there, there is a tax that will make the world a better place.

I should never question my betters from the government but sometimes I wonder why they don't make more taxes to do even greater things. How about a tax to defy gravity, that would make transport more efficient. How about a tax to cure some disease.

On the other hand maybe they are just conceited, arrogant, self serving government garbage with too much power.

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No doubt this would be eventually extended to private residential properties in the form of an annual land or wealth tax, forget council tax, this is when the fun would start.

Surely a residential land tax, proportional to the land value of each property, would help prevent housing bubbles? If it helped replace council tax, what would the problem be? If the government is going to restrict land supply via the planning system, then a tax to incentivise better use of existing residential land could only be fair. Sounds harsh, but what's wrong with giving the 5 bedroom "empty nesters" a bit more incentive to move on?

Tax is more than just a government money-grab, it is a means for redistribution of wealth, funding of universal services and management of resource use (including land!). The electorate demands perceived low taxes however, so we end up with regressive "stealth" taxes such as stamp duty (a drag on mobility), instead of progressive ones (capital gains tax on owner-occupied property anyone?).

T&T

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'Treasury poised to levy 'land tax' to ease blight of derelict sites':

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/new...ticle316501.ece

It's a good idea, but they don't need a new tax at all. They just need to bring forward the date at which council tax becomes payable, so that as soon as planning permission is granted for twelve houses on a piece of land, the land owner has to start paying council tax for those twelve houses. Should be a good incentive to get the houses built and sold as quickly as possible.

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Is it not the case that you should tax something that you don't want to happen? So if you want to reduce carbon pollution you can tax carbon fuel. If you want to reduce traffic congestion you can tax cars. I've never understood why there are taxes on things you want to encourage, like working and wealth creation for example.

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I notice that they are talking a nw tax, rather than a tax cut.

Overspending-Brown is seeking revenue in his experiment in keeping the economy growing by padding the public payroll. This is further harming the efficient economy he inherited.

Blair will resign, making way from Brown, when it is clear what a mess he UK economy has become

Yes, I think it's the usual hints to guage public reaction. If the public don't like it and they introduce it anyway, it will be at a slightly lower rate than at first thought. That way Joe Public will think, "Ahhh, it wasn't so bad".

And from the Potemkin article in The Business;

Yet Mr Brown’s public-sector recruitment binge shows no sign of waning and he has done his best to block any real reform of the public services, much to Mr Blair’s dismay.

Tony & Cherie have an intense dislike of Brown and they fully want him to get fingered for the mess he has created.

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Surely a residential land tax, proportional to the land value of each property, would help prevent housing bubbles? If it helped replace council tax, what would the problem be?

Because it assumes that those who are asset rich are cash rich, this is surprisingly rare as Blair should know on his own abode.

What about the old dear who has lived in her house for 50 years and it now happens to be worth £400k, quite common in London I should imagine, there was an article about an old couple who were selling their Edwardian house and the agents priced it at £2.4m, I think they paid about £25k in the 60's.

So, how do we expect an old dear to find 1.5% of £400k each and every year? It makes VAT on consumption look remarkably reasonable, doesn't it?

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Land tax is a great idea. It should replace council tax as it would lessen the profitablity in hoarding property.

Hopefully the idea won't be tainted by some NuLabour desperate lunge for cash.

Ever wondered why half our country houses were brought down or had their roofs removed and left for dereliction in the 60's? That was thanks to the ambitions actions of a certain government back in the day. Generally tax isn't a good idea if it leads to the destruction of assets and value in the process and is consequently never collected.

I think they should do it though, purely for selfish reasons, it would be like the poll tax on acid and the pensioners would love it, forget Mrs Hardy and her £53.71 arrears, we'd have Miss Doodle and her £7000 annual land tax for her quaint old cottage, I can see the headlines now. Speaking of pensioners, there's more of 'em than young people and they're twice as likely to vote, it would be a real kick in the teeth for Labour's middle ground and would deflate their 'big tent' somewhat when the middle classes finally realise what a bunch of muppets they've been taken for :lol:

There is a petition we can sign supporting the introduction of this tax? ;)

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Ever wondered why half our country houses were brought down or had their roofs removed and left for dereliction in the 60's? That was thanks to the ambitions actions of a certain government back in the day. Generally tax isn't a good idea if it leads to the destruction of assets and value in the process and is consequently never collected.

That's why you should tax the developed value of property, rather than its current value. There's not much incentive to let a property become derelict if you still have to pay tax as though it was in pristine condition.

So, how do we expect an old dear to find 1.5% of £400k each and every year? It makes VAT on consumption look remarkably reasonable, doesn't it?

Let the old dears roll up a tax liability to be paid out of the proceeds when the property is eventually sold. If they have lots of equity, then it's not a problem, and if they don't have lots of equity then they don't have much tax to pay.

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That's why you should tax the developed value of property, rather than its current value. There's not much incentive to let a property become derelict if you still have to pay tax as though it was in pristine condition.

No, you just ensure it's not property anymore on any level, you presume the positive that these places will be done up, if market forces and a whopping property boom didn't do that already then there's obviously a serious problem with the site or property.

In many of these cases they may be in such a state that the opposite is true, there will be more value or less liability by simply leveling the place, as per the country homes. Reducing it to rumble and making it into an urban nature reserve may be the answer, if they still want to tax the land to death despite that then it raises other issues, like every house or garden being taxed for the full developed value the plot would have if it were a block of flats (we need more apartments and flats!!) and the fact no green space would be left anywhere in a city when it could be developed, there literally wouldn't be a tree in sight, nobody could afford it.

It's like the current daft speculative market being applied to tax, a big company buys a plot 1/2 mile down the road so the value of the land your house sits on now jumps 400%, great but no development or intention of development goes ahead so you're just taxed on a speculative bubble that you haven't gained from in the slightest.

Let the old dears roll up a tax liability to be paid out of the proceeds when the property is eventually sold. If they have lots of equity, then it's not a problem, and if they don't have lots of equity then they don't have much tax to pay.

Problem is in the future the equity will be increasingly used as a pension for many people and the government already extracts money from the sale of the home to pay for nursing care and probably medical care in general in a few decades, since the NHS will be technically bankrupt under future demand.

I must say it makes the former definition of private ownership in the USSR look good!

Edited by BuyingBear

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The PEOPLE'S RIGHTS and

LAND PRICE AS A CAUSE OF POVERTY

By the Right Hon.

Winston Spencer Churchill, M.P.

President of the Board of Trade

1909

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/chrchl.htm

Unfortunately the big landowners punched well above their weight and he was defeated.

Today’s big landowners are mainly still the same families (The Royal Family, Lord and Lady Half-Barmy and their aristocratic chums) plus the big building companies and they still punch just as hard - so, don't expect any major reforms that actually work

:(

Edited by ILBB

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  • 302 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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