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'2,000 Jobs Set To Go' As Train Making Hits End Of Line In Britain

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Let the service sector take the strain.

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2010629/2-000-jobs-set-train-making-hits-end-line-Britain.html#ixzz1R33aUo6n

'2,000 jobs set to go' as train making hits end of line in Britain

By Tom Mcghie

Last updated at 2:10 PM on 3rd July 2011

The death-knell of train building in Britain is expected to be announced on Tuesday when the Canadian engineering company Bombardier tells its 3,000 workers at its Derby factory their fate.

There are growing fears that the workforce will be told that as many as 2,000 of them are to lose their jobs as a result of the Government's decision last month to award a £1.4billion contract for 1,200 carriages for Thameslink to Siemens in Germany.

Desperate attempts by the firm to bring more work to the historic Derby plant are believed to have failed. And as a result 150 years of train making in the city will come to an end.

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2010629/2-000-jobs-set-train-making-hits-end-line-Britain.html#ixzz1R33npC7K

Edited by OnlyMe

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My grandfather and father both worked at this factory in the past.

Still , who needs train manufacturing when you can just move paper about in London? :(

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I got the chop from Bombarier in a wave of redundances about 4 years ago. A big problem with the place was getting the old British Rail workers to adapt to change. It could also have given the public sector a run for it's money in terms of waste and layers of unnecessary management, making any quick decisions an impossibility.

Decent canteen though.

Derby is really copping for it currently though, what with this, the problems with Toyota, Thorntons who manufacture there and Egg.

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It's a crying shame so much of this is going on, short termism in the extreme, to have a functioning economy you need people both earning money and just as importantly spending it.

When nothing is made in Britain anymore, when everything is offshored/onshored and more and more people are put on benefits the closer we come to economic collapse.

Britain's problems in the main seem to stem from poor management both by politicians and businesses for whom everything boils down to the bottom line in an Excel spreadsheet, in France or Germany these industries would be supported locally and there would be an outcry if they weren't.

People can blame unions for our manufacturing decline but look at Germany where unions and management work much more closely, if British managers could stop acting like Lord of the Manor and actually speak with their employees almost as equal partners there would be far fewer industrial relations worries

Edited by madpenguin

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The problem is that making and selling trains is pretty much a state run business in most of the world so that while Siemens can flog its trains into the British market Bombardier would struggle to win a contract with the German, French or Italian railways. Add in the fact that the UK government failed to factor in social and redundancy costs into its calculations of which bid was most cost effective and you can see why British carriage makers were doomed. To be fair this lamentable piece of short term decision making was made under Nu Lab. The Coalition has just been left holding the baby.

Edited by stormymonday_2011

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Let the service sector take the strain.

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2010629/2-000-jobs-set-train-making-hits-end-line-Britain.html#ixzz1R33aUo6n

'2,000 jobs set to go' as train making hits end of line in Britain

By Tom Mcghie

Last updated at 2:10 PM on 3rd July 2011

The death-knell of train building in Britain is expected to be announced on Tuesday when the Canadian engineering company Bombardier tells its 3,000 workers at its Derby factory their fate.

There are growing fears that the workforce will be told that as many as 2,000 of them are to lose their jobs as a result of the Government's decision last month to award a £1.4billion contract for 1,200 carriages for Thameslink to Siemens in Germany.

Desperate attempts by the firm to bring more work to the historic Derby plant are believed to have failed. And as a result 150 years of train making in the city will come to an end.

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2010629/2-000-jobs-set-train-making-hits-end-line-Britain.html#ixzz1R33npC7K

My first question is this: how did the Germans put in a better bid than the UK factory after the pound has fallen from 1.5 euros to 1.1? My second question is this - why doesn't the government factor in the taxes to be paid by the native manufacturer and its employees, and the unemployment benefits otherwise not paid by those workers who keep their jobs, should they win the contract. Surely spending 1 billion in the UK will see several hundred million pounds returned to the government in taxation that wouldn't be seen if the money is spent abroad. I'd have thought those factors would have compelled the government to ensure the contract stays at home.

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Presumably they're being bought overseas because the buyer feels that they're getting a better deal. If they bought less good, more expensive stuff for the sole purpose of paying the money to British citizens, we'd end up with the likes of the hideously overpriced Eurofighter.

Bear in mind that the German seller will probably want paying in Euros. Someone with Sterling will have to buy those Euros, and the seller of those Euros will then have a shedload of Sterling that is useless for anything except buying stuff from the people who want paying in Sterling (i.e. the Brits).

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<br />My first question is this: how did the Germans put in a better bid than the UK factory after the pound has fallen from 1.5 euros to 1.1? My second question is this - why doesn't the government factor in the taxes to be paid by the native manufacturer and its employees, and the unemployment benefits otherwise not paid by those workers who keep their jobs, should they win the contract. Surely spending 1 billion in the UK will see several hundred million pounds returned to the government in taxation that wouldn't be seen if the money is spent abroad. I'd have thought those factors would have <i>compelled</i> the government to ensure the contract stays at home.<br />

They can afford to 'undercut' the Derby firm - cos German Govt "subsidises" Siemans

"Last year the government subsidized employers, including Siemens (SI)"

Can't post a proper link cos I is being blocked from this website

Edited by erranta

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The problem is that making and selling trains is pretty much a state run business in most of the world so that while Siemens can flog its trains into the British market Bombardier would struggle to win a contract with the German, French or Italian railways. Add in the fact that the UK government failed to factor in social and redundancy costs into its calculations of which bid was most cost effective and you can see why British carriage makers were doomed. To be fair this lamentable piece of short term decision making was made under Nu Lab. The Coalition has just been left holding the baby.

The problem is once it's gone, it's gone, in industry terms it joins yet one more thing "we don't do anymore", there are other countries that could well be sold trains, countries like India and the far east spring to mind, however lack of investment, training and research the perennial British diseases have now killed this industry, all future trains will be non British

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They can afford to 'undercut' the Derby firm - cos German Govt "subsidises" Siemans

So the German taxpayer is subsidising trains for us? Kaching.

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<br />The problem is once it's gone, it's gone, in industry terms it joins yet one more thing "we don't do anymore", there are other countries that could well be sold trains, countries like India and the far east spring to mind, however lack of investment, training and research the perennial British diseases have now killed this industry, all future trains will be non British<br />

Yes - Blitish engineering skills deliberately being demolished (all scap metals & machinery exported abroad)

- so we can't defend ourselves from a deliberate invasion or trojan uprising?

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<br />So the German taxpayer is subsidising trains for us? Kaching.<br />

Pennies

They get to 'train' the next generations on their machinery to pass on skills, keep people/skills/knowledge from wasting away on the dole etc

Have our youfs got skilled jobs to look forward to going into?

This is a deliberate dumbing down and de-skilling/loss of knowledge by the UK elites.

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Yes - Blitish engineering skills deliberately being demolished (all scap metals & machinery exported abroad)

- so we can't defend ourselves from a deliberate invasion or trojan uprising?

Depends who's doing the invading, if it's Germany I'd quite welcome it having worked there, same for the Dutch and probably the French too.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

They all enforce the working time directive (40 hour week, was quite a shock to have a German manager ask me "why are you still here?, can you go home if it's not urgent please"), and most infrastucture is pretty good (Dusseldorf to Cologne about €10, Gatwick to my home, roughly the same distance £55.00! :angry: ) and the beer is good too! :)

Edited by madpenguin

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It's a crying shame so much of this is going on, short termism in the extreme, to have a functioning economy you need people both earning money and just as importantly spending it.

When nothing is made in Britain anymore, when everything is offshored/onshored and more and more people are put on benefits the closer we come to economic collapse.

Britain's problems in the main seem to stem from poor management both by politicians and businesses for whom everything boils down to the bottom line in an Excel spreadsheet, in France or Germany these industries would be supported locally and there would be an outcry if they weren't.

People can blame unions for our manufacturing decline but look at Germany where unions and management work much more closely, if British managers could stop acting like Lord of the Manor and actually speak with their employees almost as equal partners there would be far fewer industrial relations worries

+1

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People can blame unions for our manufacturing decline but look at Germany where unions and management work much more closely, if British managers could stop acting like Lord of the Manor and actually speak with their employees almost as equal partners there would be far fewer industrial relations worries

At least the railway workers union are getting on OK with their bosses

A "groundbreaking" pay deal has been agreed for thousands of Network Rail workers.

It includes a 10% rise over two years, a £500 lump sum for those working on projects linked to next year's Olympics and an agreement which unions said means that no-one can be dismissed during the Games.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union said the package of pay and rewards recognised the important role transport workers will play during the event in London, which opens at the end of July 2012.

Signallers, engineers, customer service staff and other NR employees will receive a 5.2% pay rise this year, backdated to January, and a further rise of RPI inflation plus 0.5% from next January, which the RMT said totalled more than 10%.

In addition, NR employees working on contracts affecting the Olympic Games will receive an additional £500.

The RMT said there had also been an agreement on a disputes procedure for the period of the Olympics which meant no union member can be dismissed, although recognising their right to withdraw their labour.

RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: "This is a groundbreaking offer that gives Network Rail staff more than 10% on the basic between now and next year and which also puts a further £500 in their pockets for working shifts during the Olympics. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/groundbreaking-pay-deal-for-rail-workers-2281787.html

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We all know the future of the economy is in the service sector.

Reminds me of a documentary I saw regarding the closure of a UK car plant, they were interviewing 2 laid off workers, and one of them said "So what now?, I get a job in McDonalds and he works at Burger King, and we both eat at each others restaurants every day?, is that the way the economies going to work now?"

:angry:

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Tis a shame as this slightly hits our business... I understand here is a back story with profits that turned out to be losses due to a mistake...

Edited by AteMoose

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There are growing fears that the workforce will be told that as many as 2,000 of them are to lose their jobs as a result of the Government's decision last month to award a £1.4billion contract for 1,200 carriages for Thameslink to Siemens in Germany.

So with a low pound the TPTB tell us we can export our way into prosperity, but yet at the same time by rubber stamping this deal they are saying we are not even competitive enough to make stuff for ourselves.

Almost as if the cost of living on Treasure Island is too high making our workforce uncompetitive - no, surely not :ph34r:

Still I'm sure another print run will sort it all out...

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I understand here is a back story with profits that turned out to be losses due to a mistake...

can you flesh this out a bit, not that im calling you a liar but i do find it hard to believe that it could happen in the uk

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<br />We all know the future of the economy is in the service sector.<br />

"Service Sector" 'SS'

So after Thatcher, Tebbit and successive Govts destroy the UK Industrial Base we have to bring in foreigners who still have the skills

(destruction of power of the unions (peoples last voice against fascistic Govt leaders who present the illusion of democracy) which is why most are all losing at least 10% or more wage loss p.a. as we go thru this 'inflation' - which is pure theft by the Elites/Govt)

Under EU law it is illegal for the government or employers to discriminate against workers from EU countries.

David Frost, director general of the British Chambers of Commerce, said businesses in the U.K. need to have a highly skilled workforce, and for many firms that means employing migrants.

"Highly skilled foreign workers are important to our economy, and it is vital that they are allowed to enter the country so businesses can hire the workers they need."

He said many young Britons lack the basic skills needed in the workplace—such as reading, writing and communication.

"Getting more young people into work in this country doesn't rely upon stemming the flow of skilled migrants coming to the U.K.," he added.

Carberry, director for employment at the Confederation of British Industry, said "employers should be able to choose the best person for the job, and that the challenge for the government was to ensure more young Britons were in a position to be the best candidate."

Andrew Clark, for The Observer on Saturday 14th May 2011 23.04 UTC

"But let’s remember that boardroom pay at Britain’s top 350 companies jumped 45% last year"

As the graph shows, once you exclude the ups and downs of bankers’ bonuses, earnings are flatlining. Average annual pay growth in the economy dropped from 2.3% in January to 2% in February – well below the rate of inflation, which is 4%. The Institute for Fiscal Studies forecasts a 2.2% fall in median incomes between 2009 and 2011. Living standards are in a vice-like squeeze.

But the old arguments between unions and employers are as entrenched as ever. Barber, under questioning, defended his movement’s enfants terribles, including bellicose RMT provocateur Bob Crow. And the view from the floor at the Institute of Directors to Barber’s call for higher wages bordered on scornful.

“The world is full of dreamers,” said one delegate, Sohail Amer, chairman of a hi-tech lighting manufacturer, McGeoch Technology. “But there’s a difference between dreaming of something and actually going out and doing, achieving something.”

Amer bluntly blamed “dinosaur unions” for the loss of Britain’s coal and motor industry. And, for good measure, he took a pop at education: “I have to employ graduates who can’t even read or write English.”

The prospect of pay rises got similarly short shrift from Andrew Rodda, whose Cornish dairy, AE Rodda, is famous for its clotted cream. He pays “slightly above” the minimum wage but reckons staff can be unduly spendthrift. “We’re all told you must go on holiday all the time and do all these other things,” he complained. “There’s more to be gained from teaching employees how to manage their money more effectively than giving them more money to mismanage.”

Ahem

“The fact is that wage levels in Cornwall are notoriously low while living costs are on the rise. Mr Rodda should concern himself less with this patronising and outdated thinking and more with paying the 100 staff who ensure his profits a fair share of the cream.

“It also seems hypocritical for a man who once gave his hobbies as motocross, endurance quad biking, water skiing and snow skiing twice a year to lecture others on spending too much on holidays.

“There is already talk of a boycott of Rodda products

And Philip Higgins, managing director of an engineering recruitment firm, Rullion, reckoned it made little sense to raise wages in the middle of a period of austerity: “In a climate where costs are being tightly controlled and in many cases reduced, raising salary levels seems a simplistic viewpoint.”

So pay rises? Not likely, despite evidence that many workers are struggling to make ends meet. A report from London mayor Boris Johnson’s economic unit last week concluded that one in six employees in London are earning below the £8.30-an-hour “living wage” needed to make ends meet in the capital – a figure which has been described by the mayor, hardly a leftie, as “morally right”.

The IoD’s director general reckons Britain’s employers are too often characterised as heartless mill owners. Templeman said: “The idea that companies are exploiting their employees, or exploiting their customers, is no longer true – if it ever was.”

Maybe. But let’s remember that boardroom pay at Britain’s top 350 companies jumped 45% last year, as a revival in bonuses heralded a return to the good times. The High Pay Commission will produce figures tomorrow suggesting that the proportion of pay going to Britain’s highest earners is reaching a level unseen since Victorian days, tilting us dangerously towards a “trickle up” economy.

Britain’s directors are foolish to dismiss these concerns. During the good times, every multinational boss loves to waffle that talented staff are a company’s most valuable asset. Loyalty works both ways – companies will ultimately benefit if they stand by their people in the depths of a downturn, too.

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"Service Sector" 'SS'

So after Thatcher, Tebbit and successive Govts destroy the UK Industrial Base we have to bring in foreigners who still have the skills

(destruction of power of the unions (peoples last voice against fascistic Govt leaders who present the illusion of democracy) which is why most are all losing at least 10% or more wage loss p.a. as we go thru this 'inflation' - which is pure theft by the Elites/Govt)

Oh but they are so much more intelligent, motivated and better qualified than us lazy dole scrounging Brits, I mean the British have only been responsible for many of the major technological developments of the 20th century, whereas the majority of the immigrants countries have developed err, err, err wheres wikipedia? :lol:

Edited by madpenguin

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This doesn't surprise me, because UK manufacturing has been in decline for over a decade. Successive governments have relied on the greedy financial services sector to make up for the complete lack of useful jobs.

As for the UK rail industry, why should I have to pay £4000 per year for "standing room only"? It has got to be one of the most expensive rail networks to travel on.

The UK doesn't employ enough people to reduce the gargantuan number of welfare claimants. How many people in the UK claim benefits? JSA, Tax credits, income support, et al .... all of which are masking the ridiculous cost of living in the UK. Instead of building useful things, the UK continues to increase its deficit, all to keep an imbalanced and terminally declining society going ..... for a while.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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