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Godless Britain

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Britain today has become one of the most godless societies on earth. Its principle religious exports today are thinkers who despise religion. From Richard Dawkins, who has compared religion to child abuse, to my friend Christopher Hitchens, who titled his 2007 book "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything," the British have cornered the market on being anti-God, at least the Christian and Jewish varieties.

While 92% of Americans believe in God, only 35% in Britain do and 43% say they have no religion, according to Britain's National Centre for Social Research. The number of people who affiliate themselves with the Church of England was 23% of the population in 2009 from 40% in 1983. In truth though, if Britain's Christian tradition is dying out, the leaders of the faith have only themselves to blame, for perpetuating the country's highly centralized religious structure.

Europeans are in the habit of making fun of American evangelicals as backward religious knuckle-draggers who believe that Adam and Eve ate apples with a talking snake. But for all this condescension, evangelical Christianity in the United States represents the single largest voting bloc in the world's sole superpower. One out of five Americans describes themselves as a born-again Christian, something inconceivable in Britain. American evangelicals build mega-churches that draw thousands of worshippers, while British churches are empty enough to land jumbo jets. Leading evangelical pastors like Rick Warren and Joel Osteen enjoy vast cultural influence among millions of Americans, while in Britain no religious figure could hope to excite the youth even a fraction as much as William and Kate.

One key difference is that in America there is no official state church. There is no Archbishop of Canterbury, no Chief Rabbi, no official defender of the faith or state religion. Religion lives and dies in America like a commercial enterprise, and is therefore highly entrepreneurial. If pastors excite their congregants with a message that is uplifting and relevant, they can be sure that the pews will be filled next week. If they deliver sermons that send would-be worshipers off into deep comas, their churches will be empty the following week.

My British friends argue that the demise of religion is a good thing, proving sophistication in sharp contrast to the religious hobos of America who speak in tongues and talk to dead people. I beg to differ. In his 1997 book "A History of the American People," historian Paul Johnson makes the case that the remarkable growth of the U.S., from pioneering backwoodsmen to the most powerful and innovative nation on earth, was largely fuelled by religious fervor. From the piety of the pilgrims to the faith-based values of the country's founders, to the belief in manifest destiny and even the marketing of Coca-Cola as "the real thing," Americans tamed the wilderness with the faith that their nation was a new promised land, destined to illuminate the earth with the torch of freedom and the light of human dignity.

British influence in the world has, in contrast, gone off a cliff over the last century. And while there are many factors in this decline, I would argue that the new, militant atheism that is becoming characteristic of Britain is a key reason. Atheism is a philosophy of nihilism in which nothing is sacred and all is an accident. While it has some brief, flashy moments, life is purposeless and meaningless. There is no soul to illuminate and no spirit to enliven—just dead, decadent flesh. Human love is a prank played by our genes ensuring the sexual propagation of the species, and poetry and faith are shallow distractions masking the inevitability of our certain demise. Men are insemination machines incapable of ever being truly faithful and women are genetically programmed to seek out billionaire hedge-fund managers, so much the better to support their offspring.

This decline of faith and optimism may account for why Britain—once the most advanced nation on earth, which gave the world parliamentary democracy and its inimitable centers of higher learning—is today more famous for exporting reality shows like Big Brother and Project Catwalk. For while religion affirms the infinite dignity of the human person, its absence robs life of its sanctity. Exploitation for fame and humiliation for cash are the inevitable outgrowth.

Britain abolished the slave trade in 1807 and ended it completely three decades before the U.S., with Christian abolitionists like William Wilberforce taking the lead against the abomination. But a century later Britain is better known for football hooliganism, the gratuitous depictions of women in its most-circulated publications and the demise of the family with one of the highest out-of-wedlock birthrates in the world.

True, America has many of these same problems and a great deal more of its own. But the spiritual underpinnings of the American republic ensure that values are constantly debated in the public arena and soul-searching is a never-ending element of the American public discourse. It just goes to show how important it is to keep one's faith. Were Britain to rediscover its own, it might rediscover a lost sense of mission and a once-glorious sense of purpose.

Well, for starters, Brits aren't font of paedophiles who plague the many faces of the Christian church. They aren't fond of the Islamic faith because they have all our oil and purport a different social welfare ideology. They aren't fond of Jews, evident back to the Magna Carta and their repeated expulsion from British territory, from the Anglo-Saxon age right through to modern history. They aren't fond of Taoists because they do not understand it. Etc...

Yes, we have country devoid of morality, rife with corruption, with a society that tends away from any of mainstream religions central pillars.

Meh.

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Funny, when you compare crime figures and hear of the shocking crimes committed in the states on an hourly basis you wouldnt think that it was held up as the leading nation of god botherers would you?

You forgot to say that we are not fond of yanks too :D

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Well, for starters, Brits aren't font of paedophiles who plague the many faces of the Christian church. They aren't fond of the Islamic faith because they have all our oil and purport a different social welfare ideology. They aren't fond of Jews, evident back to the Magna Carta and their repeated expulsion from British territory, from the Anglo-Saxon age right through to modern history. They aren't fond of Taoists because they do not understand it. Etc...

Yes, we have country devoid of morality, rife with corruption, with a society that tends away from any of mainstream religions central pillars.

Meh.

But we are owned and controlled by Jews.

Great Britain plc, a division of Rothschild International Jewry ltd.

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The reason people don't go to church anymore is the simple fact that in the modern age there are better forms of entertainment, all religion is is entertainment, and religion are corporate entities. The study of religion is called theology, theo is greek for god, which is where we get the word theatre, because religion is entertainment.

People are also leaving religion because they know in there heart there is something wrong with it " you will know the tree by the fruit it bears" and I think if you look at history you'll see what I mean by that. The more people pray to the god of Abraham the more filthy and degenerate the world becomes because people don't realise that they are praying too the planets [ the old pagan gods] The jews pray on saturday because the god they are worshiping is Saturn, also known as kronos, El, Dagon, Osiris, shabbat, now the to Christian we they also worship Saturn as lord but they also worship The Sun in the form of Jesus also know as Horus, Mithra, Krishna, dionysus, Attis, Tamuz. and what is the day christians pray on? Now here's where it links in to what I said about religion been entertainment. The roots of ancient Greek theater lie in the cult of Dionysus, the god of wine[ he turned water into wine] and fertility, one of the Olympian deities honored in the Greek world. Members of the Dionysiac cult always told of the myths centered around their god by singing and dancing out their stories together as a chorus. Always, that is, until one day ( about 2,500 years ago) in the sixth century BC, when a man named Thespis, a Dionysian priest, stepped out of the chorus and took on the role of an actor. Thespis acted out a Dionysiac myth through spoken dialogue rather than a song, creating Greek tragedy. He is considered to be the first actor and the first playwright. In christianity there is also pagan moon worship under Mary also know as Isis, Diana, artemis, cybele, maya, Europa. Europa, now why do you think the European flag is blue and has 12 stars and it has nothing to do with the founding states of the union. Blue is the colour of the mother goddess [ blue always been associated with girls not boys until as little as a hundred years ago] The stars are the stars one see's around the head of Mary and other mother goddess as seen in art. Another mother goddess was called Circe which is where we get the word kirk and from that church[ Mother Circe= mother church] now the legend of Circe is quiet interesting as Circe was know in mythology to put people under a spell in her layer turn them into animals and feed of them, are we getting the pic of mother church. As you can see I have no time for the corporation that is Religion but I have every respect for spirituality which is personal and between you and your creator, you don't need a go between [ priest of dagon] Mean while the masses are being entertained by the new priests of Dionysus such as Simon Cowel and the like. Choose to be entertained like a child or educated like a adult.

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Funny as it may be the music which the dionysions played had the same structure as rock/pop music. it was designed to trance out the listener and make them suggestable, to do the cults biding. [ the devil has all the best tunes] Religion has it al,l cross dressing, sex , drugs and rock n roll.

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The real issue here is the takeover of the churches by the elite , which is one of the main reasons people have been turned off by them.

Bliar stated he was a Christian yet he has the blood of a million dead Iraqis on his hands.

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The real issue here is the takeover of the churches by the elite , which is one of the main reasons people have been turned off by them.

Bliar stated he was a Christian yet he has the blood of a million dead Iraqis on his hands.

The early church was taken over by a pagan named constantine who was a know worshiper of the sun god sol Inviticus/mithra. When he sezied christianity he exterminated all the original christian founders after the council of Nicea, when all who didn't believe like him was heratics

The original founders the gnostics, new christ was a myth, a myth in which to tell a spiritual story, and because of that they had to die.

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The modern church has nothing to do with your spiritual enlightenment, it has everything to do with power and money, yeah, yeah, yeah, the bibles a holy book, its full of holes.

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The real issue here is the takeover of the churches by the elite , which is one of the main reasons people have been turned off by them.

Bliar stated he was a Christian yet he has the blood of a million dead Iraqis on his hands.

Sacrifice to the Sun god was common throughout history, why would blair change the practice. Come on drink the blood and the body of christ mmmmmmm. :o

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Yes, we have country devoid of morality, rife with corruption, with a society that tends away from any of mainstream religions central pillars.

Are you suggesting that very religious societes do not suffer from corruption? Or from vice?

How quaint.

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Here are the most important cults of the ancient world, Saturn cult, Sun cult, Moon cult, Dionysus cult, Stella cult. The old testament is the story of the corporate merger of the cults of the ancient world. We get the name Israel from three gods ISIS-RA-EL. The jewish religion is not monotheistic its henotheistic, which means the choosing of one god from many, and that god is Shabbat, El, Saturn

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For my sins ( ;) ), I personally believe we are just culturally ahead of many other countries / people.

+1

A millennium or two of religious-inspired wars has made us wary of organised religion. Plus many of our more extreme cultists fled the country to colonies like... er... the USA.

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But for all this condescension, evangelical Christianity in the United States represents the single largest voting bloc in the world's sole superpower.

And that is good.... why?

Leading evangelical pastors like Rick Warren and Joel Osteen enjoy vast cultural influence among millions of Americans

No mention of Jimmy Swaggert (multiple sex scandals involving prostitutes), Jim and Tammy Bakker (fraud, sex scandals and bribery), Mike Warnke (fraud and deceit), W. V. Grant (tax evasion), Bob Moorehead (indecent exposure, allegations of molestation), Douglas Goodman (sexual assault).

And worse, evangelical preachers inspired William Shatner to create the story for Star Trek V!

British influence in the world has, in contrast, gone off a cliff over the last century. And while there are many factors in this decline, I would argue that the new, militant atheism that is becoming characteristic of Britain is a key reason.

Again, why? And why is fundamentalism in Christianity good but "militant" atheism bad?

Atheism is a philosophy of nihilism in which nothing is sacred and all is an accident.

Once again a god botherer fails to understand evolution.

This decline of faith and optimism may account for why Britain—once the most advanced nation on earth, which gave the world parliamentary democracy and its inimitable centers of higher learning—is today more famous for exporting reality shows like Big Brother and Project Catwalk.

Yes, that must be it. :rolleyes:

For while religion affirms the infinite dignity of the human person, its absence robs life of its sanctity.

Surely that's incredibly insulting. Why is religious conviction required for people to respect the sanctity of life? What "infinite dignity" and sanctity of life did the Spanish Inquisition affirm?

Exploitation for fame and humiliation for cash are the inevitable outgrowth.

Are they? Then surely I should love these shows instead of avoiding them at all costs.

Britain abolished the slave trade in 1807 and ended it completely three decades before the U.S., with Christian abolitionists like William Wilberforce taking the lead against the abomination.

What about all the Christians in America, a land built on "religious fervor"? Wasn't slavery practiced primarily in the Bible Belt states?

But a century later Britain is better known for football hooliganism, the gratuitous depictions of women in its most-circulated publications and the demise of the family with one of the highest out-of-wedlock birthrates in the world.

True, America has many of these same problems and a great deal more of its own.

Yes, odd that.

But the spiritual underpinnings of the American republic ensure that values are constantly debated in the public arena.

Evangelical TV shows or "Jeremy Kyle" type shows?

Opinions stated as fact. Don'tcha just love 'em?

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Britain today has become one of the most godless societies on earth. Its principle religious exports today are thinkers who despise religion. From Richard Dawkins, who has compared religion to child abuse, to my friend Christopher Hitchens, who titled his 2007 book "God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything," the British have cornered the market on being anti-God, at least the Christian and Jewish varieties.

While 92% of Americans believe in God, only 35% in Britain do and 43% say they have no religion, according to Britain's National Centre for Social Research. The number of people who affiliate themselves with the Church of England was 23% of the population in 2009 from 40% in 1983. In truth though, if Britain's Christian tradition is dying out, the leaders of the faith have only themselves to blame, for perpetuating the country's highly centralized religious structure.

Europeans are in the habit of making fun of American evangelicals as backward religious knuckle-draggers who believe that Adam and Eve ate apples with a talking snake. But for all this condescension, evangelical Christianity in the United States represents the single largest voting bloc in the world's sole superpower. One out of five Americans describes themselves as a born-again Christian, something inconceivable in Britain. American evangelicals build mega-churches that draw thousands of worshippers, while British churches are empty enough to land jumbo jets. Leading evangelical pastors like Rick Warren and Joel Osteen enjoy vast cultural influence among millions of Americans, while in Britain no religious figure could hope to excite the youth even a fraction as much as William and Kate.

One key difference is that in America there is no official state church. There is no Archbishop of Canterbury, no Chief Rabbi, no official defender of the faith or state religion. Religion lives and dies in America like a commercial enterprise, and is therefore highly entrepreneurial. If pastors excite their congregants with a message that is uplifting and relevant, they can be sure that the pews will be filled next week. If they deliver sermons that send would-be worshipers off into deep comas, their churches will be empty the following week.

My British friends argue that the demise of religion is a good thing, proving sophistication in sharp contrast to the religious hobos of America who speak in tongues and talk to dead people. I beg to differ. In his 1997 book "A History of the American People," historian Paul Johnson makes the case that the remarkable growth of the U.S., from pioneering backwoodsmen to the most powerful and innovative nation on earth, was largely fuelled by religious fervor. From the piety of the pilgrims to the faith-based values of the country's founders, to the belief in manifest destiny and even the marketing of Coca-Cola as "the real thing," Americans tamed the wilderness with the faith that their nation was a new promised land, destined to illuminate the earth with the torch of freedom and the light of human dignity.

British influence in the world has, in contrast, gone off a cliff over the last century. And while there are many factors in this decline, I would argue that the new, militant atheism that is becoming characteristic of Britain is a key reason. Atheism is a philosophy of nihilism in which nothing is sacred and all is an accident. While it has some brief, flashy moments, life is purposeless and meaningless. There is no soul to illuminate and no spirit to enliven—just dead, decadent flesh. Human love is a prank played by our genes ensuring the sexual propagation of the species, and poetry and faith are shallow distractions masking the inevitability of our certain demise. Men are insemination machines incapable of ever being truly faithful and women are genetically programmed to seek out billionaire hedge-fund managers, so much the better to support their offspring.

This decline of faith and optimism may account for why Britain—once the most advanced nation on earth, which gave the world parliamentary democracy and its inimitable centers of higher learning—is today more famous for exporting reality shows like Big Brother and Project Catwalk. For while religion affirms the infinite dignity of the human person, its absence robs life of its sanctity. Exploitation for fame and humiliation for cash are the inevitable outgrowth.

Britain abolished the slave trade in 1807 and ended it completely three decades before the U.S., with Christian abolitionists like William Wilberforce taking the lead against the abomination. But a century later Britain is better known for football hooliganism, the gratuitous depictions of women in its most-circulated publications and the demise of the family with one of the highest out-of-wedlock birthrates in the world.

True, America has many of these same problems and a great deal more of its own. But the spiritual underpinnings of the American republic ensure that values are constantly debated in the public arena and soul-searching is a never-ending element of the American public discourse. It just goes to show how important it is to keep one's faith. Were Britain to rediscover its own, it might rediscover a lost sense of mission and a once-glorious sense of purpose.

Was that all written by athom? :huh:

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There is perhaps an assumption that a society that determines and organises itself around truth will be more successful than one that does not. I contend that this is not so. An army of religious folks will win every battle with an army of atheists. The problem with Atheists is they tend to calculate their best move and act on it. When faced with an aggressive force this is usually run away. I recall a comment about why the Gurkhas make such good troops. They are culturally fatalists. Thus what happens is is what must happen and cannot be changed. When told to run at that machine gun, he can do so with no fear at all. If a bullet is destined to hit him, it will do so, if not, then it will not. This gives him a courage that is lacking in the British soldier. If recklessness leads to destruction, then cowardice leads to capture. I say remove body armour from our troops, it encourages them to hide and that is a poor quality in a soldier.

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Funny as it may be the music which the dionysions played had the same structure as rock/pop music. it was designed to trance out the listener and make them suggestable, to do the cults biding. [ the devil has all the best tunes] Religion has it al,l cross dressing, sex , drugs and rock n roll.

Doesn't the devil having all the best tunes stem from the Reformation, when a new wave of glorious music (most famously Palestrina) became a selling point against the dreariness of Luther's efforts?

Who had the best tunes?

or

Apologies for the ghastliness of the images on that one, but it's hard to find samples of Luther that aren't souped up (OK, sometimes into real music - e.g. Bach's cantata on the theme, or Mendelssohn's Reformation Symphony). But the bottom line is, it was the best part of two centuries after Palestrina before the Lutheran tradition gave us anything so worthwhile in the music of Bach.

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There is perhaps an assumption that a society that determines and organises itself around truth will be more successful than one that does not. I contend that this is not so. An army of religious folks will win every battle with an army of atheists. The problem with Atheists is they tend to calculate their best move and act on it. When faced with an aggressive force this is usually run away. I recall a comment about why the Gurkhas make such good troops. They are culturally fatalists. Thus what happens is is what must happen and cannot be changed. When told to run at that machine gun, he can do so with no fear at all. If a bullet is destined to hit him, it will do so, if not, then it will not. This gives him a courage that is lacking in the British soldier. If recklessness leads to destruction, then cowardice leads to capture. I say remove body armour from our troops, it encourages them to hide and that is a poor quality in a soldier.

LOL. You should be a comedian.

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LOL. You should be a comedian.

Aye, I like to joke.

Still the question remains. We often see people getting attacked or even raped in public without a single person lifting a finger to help. Each of them uses the same logic of the other person has no value to me yet I take a risk by intervention, thus I do should not intervene. Thus the bad guys are able to go about their activities without fear. Every man has been taught to believe that he is special and that his own skin, his own mind, is something to be preserved at all costs. Our forefathers knew death since people died young. They understood that it in not how long you live, but how you live that matters. Death did not matter since there was an afterlife, you only reached it by doing that which was right. The brave man will dominate the coward because he knows the coward will never take the risk of opposing him regardless of the injustice. He will always seek to back away, where he can be safe. Because the brave man knows this too, he need not ever fight and so may take greater liberties that he would otherwise. The question is how to turn a coward into a brave man. This is done by reorienting world view.

Is it better to have a stout heart always and suffer one's share of evils, than to be ever fearing what may happen and never incur a mischance?

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I suppose religion did stop some unpleasant behaviour with its charming "Behave yourself or you'll be in agony forever" message. And it's resulted in some nice art, music, and architecture. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of humanity to achieve that without accepting a ludircous fairy tale as truth.

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LOL. You could alternatively be a preacher, one day you could emulate the Pope and send masses on a Crusade or two. Fabulous.

I guess it is a form of preaching, but then the purpose of preaching to change minds by introducing a new ways of thinking about problems, even problems that you may not be aware of.

Still if one writes the word "LOL" enough, it shows that one is a jovial sort of chap, LOL, LOL, LOL, :) Nothing like content, eh, LOL, LOL, LOL.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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