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English Students Facing £9,000 Fees At Scottish Universities

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English university students could be charged up to £9,000 in tuition fees in Scotland to prevent Scottish universities being "swamped" by students fleeing higher charges elsewhere in the UK.

The much higher than expected annual charge was announced by Michael Russell, the Scottish education secretary, after he came under intense pressure from Scottish universities to allow them to keep pace with their wealthier English competitors.

He insisted the new limit – which could allow colleges to charge five times more than the current £1,820 basic fee – was primarily to allow universities such as St Andrews, Edinburgh and Glasgow to close a significant funding gap after the UK government introduced fees of up to £9,000 for English university places.

The proposals were welcomed by university principals but condemned by student leaders, who accused Russell of hypocrisy and said he had mimicked the worst policies being pursued in England by creating a "market" for university education in Scotland.

Scotland's universities have warned current funding levels would leave them at least £202m short next year because Alex Salmond's government refuses to introduce fees for Scottish students, yet has cut funding by £67m next year.

But Russell also admitted the heftier new fees were designed to limit "cross border flow" from English students escaping £9,000 fees. He told the Scottish parliament he had discussed his new proposals in a private call to David Willets, the UK education secretary, before his statement to MSPs.

"We want to maintain cross border flows – they're important to all of us - but none of us should find ourselves in the position of being swamped by others from elsewhere," he said.

About 22,500 English students attend Scottish universities, frequently the most prestigious and now potentially most expensive courses such as medicine, where they currently pay £2,895 a year in fees, and the highest achieving universities such as St Andrew's and Edinburgh.

Russell's proposals – which are certain to be endorsed by Holyrood because of the Scottish National party's overall majority – have been introduced after it emerged that the numbers of students from England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and the EU, have increased sharply.

The announcement was immediately welcomed by Universities Scotland, the umbrella body, which said it would now use this new limit voluntarily for the 2012/13 academic year until it was embedded in new legislation for the following year.

After general assurances from Russell about introducing new legislation to protect places for poor students, Universities Scotland also promised to produce improved bursaries and scholarships for less well-off applicants. It said the new fees for 2012 would be published by September this year.

Professor Ian Diamond, the principal at Aberdeen university, said: "Universities are in no doubt that today's announcement on rest-of-UK fees represents a very difficult choice both for government and for universities. But equally, there is no doubt that change is absolutely necessary.

"Keeping a single flat-rate fee for students from the rest of the UK is no longer an option. It wouldn't work for prospective UK students, who are not a homogenous group, nor would it work for Scotland's universities – who are far from homogenous themselves."

However, the National Union of Students was fiercely critical of the new fees, saying Scotland was now the most expensive place in the UK to study. Because Scottish universities normally run four year courses, against three years usually offered in England, a student could pay £36,000 in fees in Scotland, against £27,000 for a comparable course in England.

Robin Parker, president-elect of NUS Scotland, said: "There's more than an element of hypocrisy here. The SNP rejected a market in tuition fees for Scottish students prior to the election, only to introduce one immediately after for students from the rest of the UK.

"This seems incredibly unfair, especially when the SNP have talked so much about the importance of access to university based on ability not ability to pay.

"And by introducing a market into education in Scotland, we're seeing some of the worst aspects of the proposals down south come to Scotland, directly against our tradition of fair access to university."

Parker's complaint was echoed by Ken MacIntosh, Labour's education spokesman. He said people would be "astonished" that Scottish courses could now potentially be the most expensive.

"There is a real danger that the SNP's plans to over-charge students from the rest of the UK will be counterproductive. At this level, they risk deterring students from studying in Scotland altogether and having the perverse effect of making the funding gap bigger not smaller," he said.

Russell told the Scottish parliament he had decided to allow Scotland's universities the freedom to set their own fees for students from the rest of the UK, setting charges on a course by course basis from £1,800 to £9,000 a year.

He estimated that the average fee would be £6,375, based on figures from a joint Universities Scotland and Scottish government working group, a figure lower than the expected average in England. He added that Scottish taxpayers fully fund places for about 12,000 Scottish students at English colleges.

He also confirmed that he plans at a later stage to introduce new service charges for European Union students from outside the UK, similar to Ireland's model, to prevent Europeans from taking advantage of Scotland's often cheaper charges and fees.

Russell's officials have estimated that EU students "cost" the Scottish taxpayer about £75m a year. Numbers have doubled to nearly 16,000 last year. Under EU law, because Scottish students get free higher education, any student from another member state is entitled to the same privileges.

However, because Scotland is not a member state of the EU, a loophole in European law means the same requirement to treat other UK students equally does not apply. As a result, English, Welsh and Northern Irish students have to pay whatever fee the Scottish government and universities choose.

Isn't it about time for my English cousins to the south to start kicking their local politicians and councils collective asses?

Are you lot not sick of being treated like crap, at the expense of the banks, politicians and establishment?

Scotland gets it up the jaxie every day in one way or another, despite what you may think otherwise. I know, I am one, and live here.

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How long do English, Welsh or Northern Irish parents + student need to have been usually resident in Scotland for before they are entitled to a free uni education?

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Isn't it about time for my English cousins to the south to start kicking their local politicians and councils collective asses?

Are you lot not sick of being treated like crap, at the expense of the banks, politicians and establishment?

Scotland gets it up the jaxie every day in one way or another, despite what you may think otherwise. I know, I am one, and live here.

Anyone daft enough to pay £27,000 to study at the universit y of jingsncrivvens when they could instead move north 3 months early, declare a scottish abode as their home address (for about £1000-1500 rent?), and then get free tuition deserves to feel the pain.

http://www.student-support-saas.gov.uk/student_support/residence_conditions.htm

You must also be ordinarily resident in Scotland on the relevant date, unless you are an English, Northern Irish or Welsh domiciled student taking a degree course in one of the Allied Health Professions. In this case, you must be ordinarily resident in your home country at the time you apply for your first years support.

The relevant date

The relevant date depends on when your course starts. The dates for session 2011-2012 are as follows.

* 1 August 2011 for courses that start between 1 August 2011 and 31 December 2011.

* 1 January 2012 for courses that start between 1 January 2012 and 31 March 2012.

* 1 April 2012 for courses that start between 1 April 2012 and 30 June 2012.

* 1 July 2012 for courses that start between 1 July 2012 and 31 July 2012.

Eligibility at the beginning of a course of education determines your eligibility for the duration of that course of education

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How long do English, Welsh or Northern Irish parents + student need to have been usually resident in Scotland for before they are entitled to a free uni education?

I saw on the news a Polish student who received a free Scottish University education whereas a Scottish student had to pay £2k a year.

Someone run it by me how that one works?

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How long do English, Welsh or Northern Irish parents + student need to have been usually resident in Scotland for before they are entitled to a free uni education?

Three years.

FYI: Student Awards Agency for Scotland (SAAS)

One thing to mind:

Ordinarily resident has been defined in the courts as 'habitual and normal residence in one place'. It basically means that you, your parents or your husband, wife or civil partner live in a country year after year by choice throughout a set period, apart from temporary or occasional absences such as holidays or business trips. Living here totally or mainly for the purpose of receiving full-time education does not count as being ordinarily resident.

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Anyone daft enough to pay £27,000 to study at the universit y of jingsncrivvens when they could instead move north 3 months early, declare a scottish abode as their home address (for about £1000-1500 rent?), and then get free tuition deserves to feel the pain.

http://www.student-support-saas.gov.uk/student_support/residence_conditions.htm

You must also be ordinarily resident in Scotland on the relevant date, unless you are an English, Northern Irish or Welsh domiciled student taking a degree course in one of the Allied Health Professions. In this case, you must be ordinarily resident in your home country at the time you apply for your first years support.

The relevant date

The relevant date depends on when your course starts. The dates for session 2011-2012 are as follows.

* 1 August 2011 for courses that start between 1 August 2011 and 31 December 2011.

* 1 January 2012 for courses that start between 1 January 2012 and 31 March 2012.

* 1 April 2012 for courses that start between 1 April 2012 and 30 June 2012.

* 1 July 2012 for courses that start between 1 July 2012 and 31 July 2012.

Eligibility at the beginning of a course of education determines your eligibility for the duration of that course of education

Not that easy, see my post.

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I saw on the news a Polish student who received a free Scottish University education whereas a Scottish student had to pay £2k a year.

Someone run it by me how that one works?

Perhaps the [insert nationality here] student won awards based on their academics?

Bright kids get perks such as this within the UK education sector, irregardless of their nationalities.

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Not that easy, see my post.

I don't want to be rude, but you're not reading it right :ph34r:

To meet our residence conditions you must have been ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man for the three years immediately before the first day of the first academic year of your course (the relevant date). For the majority of students who start their course in the autumn term, the relevant date is 1 August.

You must also be ordinarily resident in Scotland on the relevant date, unless you are an English, a Northern Irish or a Welsh domiciled student taking a degree course in one of the Allied Health Professions. In this case, you must be ordinarily resident in your home country at the time you apply for your first year's support.

So 3 years living in the UK, nip up to Scotland for August 1st

They can't do it any other way, or they'd be penalising 14 year olds who moved up to scotland with their parents

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I don't want to be rude, but you're not reading it right :ph34r:

To meet our residence conditions you must have been ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man for the three years immediately before the first day of the first academic year of your course (the relevant date). For the majority of students who start their course in the autumn term, the relevant date is 1 August.

You must also be ordinarily resident in Scotland on the relevant date, unless you are an English, a Northern Irish or a Welsh domiciled student taking a degree course in one of the Allied Health Professions. In this case, you must be ordinarily resident in your home country at the time you apply for your first year's support.

So 3 years living in the UK, nip up to Scotland for August 1st

They can't do it any other way, or they'd be penalising 14 year olds who moved up to scotland with their parents

Maybe I wasn't thorough enough in the cut and paste, it also says:

We will not treat you as being ordinarily resident in Scotland if your main purpose in coming here has been to receive full-time education and that you would have otherwise been living elsewhere.

So 'nipping' across the boarder doesn't cut the mustard.

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Perhaps the [insert nationality here] student won awards based on their academics?

Bright kids get perks such as this within the UK education sector, irregardless of their nationalities.

No I think you're a tad naive and possibly shouting the race card too soon:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jan/13/european-student-numbers-soar-scotland

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Maybe I wasn't thorough enough in the cut and paste, it also says:

So 'nipping' across the boarder doesn't cut the mustard.

You don't nip over, you move there.3 months early. I was here working at the festival guv or just slumming it on the dole, and wouldn't you know it, I saw this university course completely incidentally like. Up to them to prove otherwise innit? 3 months of phone bills with the address on or a benefit claim would probably be enough anyways. Worth a try for £27,000

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No I think you're a tad naive and possibly shouting the race card too soon:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/jan/13/european-student-numbers-soar-scotland

Not playing the race card.

And I hardly consider studying in Scotland a bargain for an EU citizen when you take into account the cost of accommodations, etc.

Scotland is just as much as a ripoff in that regard as is any town UK.

What is going on is the buttfvck emanating from Brussels, of which we are all subservient to within the UK.

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You don't nip over, you move there.3 months early. I was here working at the festival guv or just slumming it on the dole, and wouldn't you know it, I saw this university course completely incidentally like. Up to them to prove otherwise innit? 3 months of phone bills with the address on or a benefit claim would probably be enough anyways. Worth a try for £27,000

Maybe, but for that kind of money it's hardly worth the effort, and the fraud, especially as you will most likely be rejected.

Just cough up the dough and put your kids through school where you want them to go.

Or, get them into some kind of apprenticeship and have their employer pay for the education.

What is wrong with you people? Does everything have to involve some kind of con?

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Maybe, but for that kind of money it's hardly worth the effort, and the fraud, especially as you will most likely be rejected.

Just cough up the dough and put your kids through school where you want them to go.

Or, get them into some kind of apprenticeship and have their employer pay for the education.

What is wrong with you people? Does everything have to involve some kind of con?

It's not a con or a fraud, it's the opposite, it's about trying to adhere to the rules and keep things legal. At most you could call it a 'dodge'. I was ordinarily resident in scotland on that date guv, here's my gas bill.

Even the removal men will do you a cheap rate ;)

http://www.robinsons-intl.com/blog/people-move-to-scotland-and-wales-for-lower-student-fees/

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Not playing the race card.

And I hardly consider studying in Scotland a bargain for an EU citizen when you take into account the cost of accommodations, etc.

Scotland is just as much as a ripoff in that regard as is any town UK.

What is going on is the buttfvck emanating from Brussels, of which we are all subservient to within the UK.

I knew the EU would be involved in it somehow.

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Clearly a mess and a deliberate one at that designed to create animosity and division.

+1 Its also propaganda to make English people vote for regional parliaments just as the EU planned. As soon as the EU gets us into regional parliaments the money will be withdrawn from Scotland and they will be in the same boat as us. Look what happened to Ireland as soon as they voted for the lisbon treaty, as soon as they had them the money dried up.

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I dont get it. £30k (or nearer £50-60k all inclusive) to get a degree. Free to get into the UK from a third world country.

I know what will boost your earnings more.

Cameron, if you want to stop immigration, just slap a £50k entry fee on the UK.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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