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It isnt far from a revolution is it?

I think it's fairly safe to say the debt isn't being paid, if nowt else.

Doesn't matter what measures the parliament passes, it's going to be vanishing tax collector time, at the very least permanent low to mid level civil disobedience etc

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Menu by Gorgon Ramsey.

Good Old BBC Pravda writing its own comments too:

MF in Athens emails: I'm Greek but I am now embarassed and saddened at how the world is seeing us. The protesters should realise that their typically Greek passion and hot-headedness is what has caused this crisis.

Why don't they rename their comments to 'Have Our Say'

BBC reporter now referring to the protestors as the 'anarchists'

It is the most slanted reporting on the net.

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At one point about fifty police motorcycles had gathered at one corner of the square. John Sopel, BBC Reporter speculated that this might have been intended to be used to charge at the protestors, then realized it was a motorcade to evacuate the politicians out of the Parliament.

The cavalcade soon evacuated themselves having been surrounded by hundreds of protestors and pelted with missiles.

Still, the rich avoid their taxes and the bankstaz get their bonuses.

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I think it's fairly safe to say the debt isn't being paid, if nowt else.

Doesn't matter what measures the parliament passes, it's going to be vanishing tax collector time, at the very least permanent low to mid level civil disobedience etc

Robert Peston just said that regardless whether Greece passes the austerity measures or not it will still default sooner or later.

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About an hour ago only a thin line of Police were between the Parliament and the protesters - if they had rushed the cops they would have been in the Parliament.

I am sure I remember reading a report in The Times (remember that?) about a journo in Belgrade. I am sure he said that there was a big angry crowd outside the Parliament there, and noticed that there was no one really guarding the entrance. So he went up to have a look out of curiosity. And then he claimed he heard the cry, "Look at him, he's not scared, what are we waiting for?" and then the revolution happened.

Sometimes people dont realise just how close they can be to real power, either that or they chose not to realise.

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While i think exit of the EURO is the right course, the rioters need to understand if they stay in its higher taxes and less spending, if they get the drachma back and devalue, its crushing inflation.

Either way, they lose.

If we're talking about breaking the law, looting as much provisions as you can would be more productive than simply setting fire to buildings and cars and trying to murder cops.

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While i think exit of the EURO is the right course, the rioters need to understand if they stay in its higher taxes and less spending, if they get the drachma back and devalue, its crushing inflation.

Either way, they lose.

If we're talking about breaking the law, looting as much provisions as you can would be more productive than simply setting fire to buildings and cars and trying to murder cops.

Sooner or later they will have to balance the budget, no way around that.

The thing is, do they balance the budget whilst paying interest on debts, or default on those debts, and balance the budget without the interest, pocketing the difference?

If rioting were to achieve that latter, then they would actually be better off rioting to achieve that aim.

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It's interesting how the beeb are trying to make out that the Greeks have got to accept austerity or the country will be ruined however they don't take the same position here in the UK.

Why doesn't anyone there ask why did the banks recklessly lend to the Greeks in the first place. It appears to be like a sovereign version of "liar loans" :huh:

The fact is the banks should just NEVER have lent them the funds in the first place. The Greeks have to now force them to face the inevitable haircut.

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It's interesting how the beeb are trying to make out that the Greeks have got to accept austerity or the country will be ruined however they don't take the same position here in the UK.

Why doesn't anyone there ask why did the banks recklessly lend to the Greeks in the first place. It appears to be like a sovereign version of "liar loans" :huh:

The fact is the banks should just NEVER have lent them the funds in the first place. The Greeks have to now force them to face the inevitable haircut.

...another reason the BBC should be shut down ...it's just a propaganda machine for UK waste including the cost of keeping it.... :rolleyes:

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While i think exit of the EURO is the right course, the rioters need to understand if they stay in its higher taxes and less spending, if they get the drachma back and devalue, its crushing inflation.

Either way, they lose.

If we're talking about breaking the law, looting as much provisions as you can would be more productive than simply setting fire to buildings and cars and trying to murder cops.

Debt slavery for perpetuity, or a debt default followed by some short term inflation?

Iceland had 18% inflation the year following there default, but the dust settled and no longer saddled with onerous debts, the Icelandic economy is now growing again.

Default is no get out of jail free card for the Greeks, but it's preferable to the alternative. It will also lead quite sharply to pay day B)

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...another reason the BBC should be shut down ...it's just a propaganda machine for UK waste including the cost of keeping it.... :rolleyes:

+1

or better still it could be broken up and sold off bit by bit, very, very slowly. They would then have to report on each piece being fed to the asset strippers.

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...another reason the BBC should be shut down ...it's just a propaganda machine for UK waste including the cost of keeping it.... :rolleyes:

Nothing to see here. Some BBC commentator has said the crowd is a 'motley bunch' made up of far-right and far-left and are in no way representative of the average Greek.

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If they do pass this, how much success do you think they will have trying to implement it? And if they are successful, what effect do you think this will have on the Greek economy and therefore its ability to repay all of its debt?

These are SOME of the austerity measures planned (taken from a ZeroHedge article):

TAXATION

* Taxes will increase by 2.32bn euros this year, with additional taxes of 3.38bn euros in 2012, 152m euros in 2013 and 699m euros

in 2014.

* A solidarity levy of between 1% and 5% of income will be levied on households to raise 1.38bn euros.

* The tax-free threshold for income tax will be lowered from 12,000 to 8,000 euros.

* There will be higher property taxes

* VAT rates are to rise: the 19% rate will increase to 23%, 11% becomes 13%, and 5.5% will increase to 6.5%.

* The VAT rate for restaurants and bars will rise to 23% from 13%.

* Luxury levies will be introduced on yachts, pools and cars.

* Some tax exemptions will be scrapped

* Excise taxes on fuel, cigarettes and alcohol will rise by one third.

* Special levies on profitable firms, high-value properties and people with high incomes will be introduced.

PUBLIC SECTOR CUTS

* The public sector wage bill will be cut by 770m euros in 2011, 600m euros in 2012, 448m euros in 2013, 300m euros in 2014 and

71m euros in 2015.

* Nominal public sector wages will be cut by 15%.

* Wages of employees of state-owned enterprises will be cut by 30% and there will be a cap on wages and bonuses.

* All temporary contracts for public sector workers will be terminated.

* Only one in 10 civil servants retiring this year will be replaced and only one in 5 in coming years.

SPENDING CUTS

* Defence spending will be cut by 200m euros in 2012, and by 333m euros each year from 2013 to 2015.

* Health spending will be cut by 310m euros this year and a further 1.81bn euros in 2012-2015, mainly by lowering regulated prices

for drugs.

* Public investment will be cut by 850m euros this year.

* Subsidies for local government will be reduced.

* Education spending will be cut by closing or merging 1,976 schools.

CUTTING BENEFITS

* Social security will be cut by 1.09bn euros this year, 1.28bn euros in 2012, 1.03bn euros in 2013, 1.01bn euros in 2014 and 700m

euros in 2015.

* There will be more means-testing and some benefits will be cut.

* The government hopes to collect more social security contributions by cracking down on evasion and undeclared work.

* The statutory retirement age will be raised to 65, 40 years of work will be needed for a full pension and benefits will be linked more

closely to lifetime contributions.

PRIVATISATION

* The government aims to raise 50bn euros from privatisations by 2015, including:

* Selling stakes this year in the betting monopoly OPAP, the lender Hellenic Postbank, port operators Piraeus Port and Thessaloniki

Port as well as Thessaloniki Water.

* It has agreed to sell 10% of Hellenic Telecom to Deutsche Telekom for about 400m euros.

* Next year, the government plans to sell stakes in Athens Water, refiner Hellenic Petroleum, electricity utility PPC, lender ATEbank as

well as ports, airports, motorway concessions, state land and mining rights.

* It plans further sales to raise 7bn euros in 2013, 13bn euros in 2014 and 15bn euros in 2015.

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I think it's fairly safe to say the debt isn't being paid, if nowt else.

Doesn't matter what measures the parliament passes, it's going to be vanishing tax collector time, at the very least permanent low to mid level civil disobedience etc

Debt as a percentage of GDP is about to go parabolic.

Default has now been assured.

Very, very silly politicians.

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The EU thinks that if they can balance their books then they'll start to pay back the debt. The way a lot of the Greek MPs view it is that if they are able to balance the country's books then they'll be safe to default. Allowing them to just walk away from most of these debts.

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Nothing to see here. Some BBC commentator has said the crowd is a 'motley bunch' made up of far-right and far-left and are in no way representative of the average Greek.

They said the same, of course, about the G20 demo in London - when lots of ordinary peaceful pensioners got kettled in a very nasty way. It is very good at costume drama, however.

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While i think exit of the EURO is the right course, the rioters need to understand if they stay in its higher taxes and less spending, if they get the drachma back and devalue, its crushing inflation.

Either way, they lose.

If we're talking about breaking the law, looting as much provisions as you can would be more productive than simply setting fire to buildings and cars and trying to murder cops.

The Greeks are used to crushing inflation its more apropriate for their economy.

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Max Keiser said there will be big losses if Greece defaults, and Mervyn King is lying when he pretends the losses will be small.

As for the protests, it's the usual nonsense we saw at the G20: basically, it's a bunch of poseurs, all talking the big talk, but they don't actually want to do more than get themselves photographed in a fetching pose. IMO if the Greeks don't overthrow the government today, they'll be debt slaves for years.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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