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Universities To Reveal Job Prospects

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/radical-british-uni-reforms-unveiled-053148053.html

Plans to force universities to reveal the job prospects associated with particular courses will make them "raise their game", the Universities Minister has told Sky News.

David Willetts said it was "crucial" potential students were given information in advance on how likely they were to gain employment at the end of their studies.

As part of a radical shake-up of the system, institutions will also be forced to reveal details about the quality of teaching, the services and facilities on offer and the views of current students.

"They are entitled to expect better information about the employment prospects from particular courses or particular universities," Mr Willetts said.

Do you want fries with that will be a popular description

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Jump the queue and guess that everything outside of engineering, medicine, and law has very poor job prospects?

And in that order too.

Even law has very poor job prospects if you went to the University of Northampton and its ilk.

Also, there's off-shoring and Tesco-isation to consider.

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MacGyver

Jump the queue and guess that everything outside of engineering, medicine, and law has very poor job prospects?

And in that order too.

I'd agree. Not sure why, given that we no longer make anything in the UK, but engineers seem to be the most employable (he said speaking as an Electrical and Information Systems Engineering Graduate).

But on the face of it, If you were stuck in a large warehouse containing a variety of mechanical and electrical parts and surrounded by bad guys with guns, who would you rather have BA Baracus and MacGyver or Ben Bernake and Alan Greespan.

(BTW, all four are fictional heros, though only 2 of them are fictional).

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/radical-british-uni-reforms-unveiled-053148053.html

Do you want fries with that will be a popular description

Well at least they're admitting it now. Some of us have known for a while, now it's official. University is no longer a place where people learn for the greater common good, or for its own sake . It is now a utilitarian diploma mill. I'd been wondering for a while, why so few question what's going on around them these days.

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http://uk.news.yahoo.com/radical-british-uni-reforms-unveiled-053148053.html

Do you want fries with that will be a popular description

In general, I like the idea, but it needs to be done right to be effective. The business school where I got my degree publishes post graduation job stats, but it only includes data from the half the class that responds to the survey. If only the half that got good jobs responds, then that's not a very good survey... Also, the survey doesn't capture sufficient detail to determine whether the job is relevant to the degree earned. If one Business grad lands a job managing a restaurant while another takes a waitress job out of desperation, they're both lumped in the same category, even though there's a big difference between the two.

Of course, even if the data were perfect, many students would choose to ignore it. However, even if it makes a difference for a handful of students, then it's worth it IMHO.

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I can see most university prospectuses being rewritten hastily to tone down the promises most make.

'This highly-regarded degree provides the ideal preparation for entry into the publishing/journalism/media/communications etc industry..'

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Will be interesting to see the results for each course and how many courses dissappear overnight! :lol:

I wonder how many Mickey Mouse degrees are being flogged in this country?

Today's teenagers will be making their careers in an age of labour scarcity - a grey economy,

Very very few commentators have any idea what structural shifts that implies and what it means for higher education.

So much looking in the rear view mirror on this forum (and in the mainstream and alternative media generally) and so little actual thinking.

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Gosh, everyone in academia has seen the "customer-student" evolving for a long time, it's why I got out and into the much more congenial "private sector":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7191924/University-admissions-Labours-student-drive-that-backfired.html

This old story in theTelegraph illustrates the ideological turning of the tide of the idea that as many school-leavers as possible should go into Higher Ed. in order that we should be a better-educated society. Since the drive began in the 1990s, most involved have now found out that allowing more and more kids to go on to Higher Ed by increasing the number of institutions (the biggest factor in which was converting the old Polys and HE colleges) has not resulted in a new, dynamic Euro-workforce. Most undergraduate degrees were never designed to provide training for jobs, unless specifically or implicitly vocational, e.g. medicine, law, engineering etc. and even with these degrees much training goes on after the degree is ended. It was OK for undergrads to study Classics, Liberal Arts and Eng Lit when the university population was a small, distinct “elite” in order simply to be better-educated citizens, but if you are a (typically) working-to-lower-middle class kid coming out of a "non-prestigious" HE institution with an arts and humanities degree, you are just 3-4 years older and deeper in debt. You will not get a "graduate" job, since that's merely the description of the jobs the old university “elite” could be expected to get (and would actually be trained to do on the job). You will do jobs that no-one used to need a degree to get and unless you have done one of a small number of specific subjects, you will not increase your lifetime earnings. It doesn't matter whether you have opened up new space in your brain and matured and socialised yourself, that's not why you were allowed to attend HE, wake up kids. As government and employers belatedly realise they're not getting a "better workforce" and as students realise they are entering a world of non-"graduate" work with debts of around £20,000 + but have no "added value" to show, the ground for retrenchment is prepared, as has in fact been long intended:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10278662

Much longer than this government actually, since the die was cast as soon as the Polys were allowed to become universities, the Vice Chancellors of the old sacred halls gathered together one midnight and as they passed the port, the beast that would become the “Russell Group” began to grow in the Chamber of Secrets beneath.The current "Universities Minister" is simply continuing a narrative adopted since 1992 but now the latest explanation that New Labour made a big, expensive mistake in expanding HE and financial attrition must now follow It's clear that the new university population will either have to pay the cost of sending themselves there or not go any more, either will suit government for now although there will be increasing penalties for going to university unless you study something which demonstrably qualifies you for work.

Expect much talk soon of vocational learning, apprenticeships, fast-tracking, reskilling and so forth in the new HE education policy. Soon, there will be financial incentives for non- “Russell” (a corporate branding exercise whic neans bugger all) HE institutions to offer more courses which are specifically vocational and maybe not called “degrees” any longer. These courses will be offered in “sandwiches” with work experience and placements, delivered online at a time to suit you and paid for in installments. The more predatory Vice-chancellors will soon be offering to hand in their own gold-braided job titles for more funding and some institutions will doubtless advertise their new status by changing their names. What will these new institutions be called? Community Universities? City Universities? Technical Universities? University Colleges? The only thing they can't call them is Polytechnics because that would cause branding problems.

The university system in the United Kingdom is based on and run by moneyed privilege and intellectual snobbery but at the same time is funded by politicians who know little about education except what sells short-term to the electorate. They want their own children to go to “good” schools and “proper” universities and they want all voter-parents to think their children will too despite the principle of distinction and exclusion on which "good" schools and "proper" universities operate. Many of these same politicians have not read a book - except airport thrillers and policy documents - since they graduated. They cherish the idea, however, that having “gone to university” was a product of their own special cleverness and that became deeply embedded in their sense of who they are, which is a much more powerful thing than rational argument.

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Today's teenagers will be making their careers in an age of labour scarcity - a grey economy,

Very very few commentators have any idea what structural shifts that implies and what it means for higher education.

So much looking in the rear view mirror on this forum (and in the mainstream and alternative media generally) and so little actual thinking.

On "our" little patch of sod yes, but not globally.

A smaller working population yes but manacled and burdened with the promises made by and to their forebears.

What point a decent salary if it is taxed into grit to pay for geriatric largesse?

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I'd agree. Not sure why, given that we no longer make anything in the UK, but engineers seem to be the most employable (he said speaking as an Electrical and Information Systems Engineering Graduate).

Don't confuse Engineering with Manufacturing. Engineering employment is available across all sectors, not just in manufacturing companies.

Engineering is all about problem solving with technology and these skills are highly transferable.

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Jump the queue and guess that everything outside of engineering, medicine, and law has very poor job prospects?

Anything that focusses towards a job should be OK - accountancy, physiotherapy, dentistry, actuarial science etc etc.

Given the shortage of Maths and Science teachers, those subjects also have at least one potential job at the end (and Maths can also lead into financial jobs).

Also frankly everyone from Oxford and Cambridge should be fine whatever their degree subject.

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Somebody I know is doing..... history and religion! Honestly don't know what they'll do after that (doesn't have higher English!). To be honest, he's there for the parties...

Don't understand all this 'university experience' and comments like 'I learned so many other things at uni'.... I learned little more than what I already knew other than the (excellent!) engineering education which I got. To be honest, all I did for 5 years was solid, hard work!

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Anything that focusses towards a job should be OK - accountancy, physiotherapy, dentistry, actuarial science etc etc.

Given the shortage of Maths and Science teachers, those subjects also have at least one potential job at the end (and Maths can also lead into financial jobs).

Also frankly everyone from Oxford and Cambridge should be fine whatever their degree subject.

If the oxbridge caveat holds, iit's because it's more who you know after emerging from those places that gets you a job rather than just having the degree. For instance, anecdotal uff uff uff, I know a PhD in biological sciences from oxford, came from a standard middle-class background, very bright, but not having an 'in' now works at at £25,000 level job for a local council

The old polys might do better out of this than you'd think, because they still tend to teach vocational degrees targeted at jobs and many do year-long placements as part of their courses. Not many teach the more "degree for the sake of it" subjects like classics or languages that used to get chinless wonders into the civil service

Edited by noodle doodle

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Gosh, everyone in academia has seen the "customer-student" evolving for a long time, it's why I got out and into the much more congenial "private sector":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7191924/University-admissions-Labours-student-drive-that-backfired.html

This old story in theTelegraph illustrates the ideological turning of the tide of the idea that as many school-leavers as possible should go into Higher Ed. in order that we should be a better-educated society. Since the drive began in the 1990s, most involved have now found out that allowing more and more kids to go on to Higher Ed by increasing the number of institutions (the biggest factor in which was converting the old Polys and HE colleges) has not resulted in a new, dynamic Euro-workforce. Most undergraduate degrees were never designed to provide training for jobs, unless specifically or implicitly vocational, e.g. medicine, law, engineering etc. and even with these degrees much training goes on after the degree is ended. It was OK for undergrads to study Classics, Liberal Arts and Eng Lit when the university population was a small, distinct “elite” in order simply to be better-educated citizens, but if you are a (typically) working-to-lower-middle class kid coming out of a "non-prestigious" HE institution with an arts and humanities degree, you are just 3-4 years older and deeper in debt. You will not get a "graduate" job, since that's merely the description of the jobs the old university “elite” could be expected to get (and would actually be trained to do on the job). You will do jobs that no-one used to need a degree to get and unless you have done one of a small number of specific subjects, you will not increase your lifetime earnings. It doesn't matter whether you have opened up new space in your brain and matured and socialised yourself, that's not why you were allowed to attend HE, wake up kids. As government and employers belatedly realise they're not getting a "better workforce" and as students realise they are entering a world of non-"graduate" work with debts of around £20,000 + but have no "added value" to show, the ground for retrenchment is prepared, as has in fact been long intended:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10278662

Much longer than this government actually, since the die was cast as soon as the Polys were allowed to become universities, the Vice Chancellors of the old sacred halls gathered together one midnight and as they passed the port, the beast that would become the “Russell Group” began to grow in the Chamber of Secrets beneath.The current "Universities Minister" is simply continuing a narrative adopted since 1992 but now the latest explanation that New Labour made a big, expensive mistake in expanding HE and financial attrition must now follow It's clear that the new university population will either have to pay the cost of sending themselves there or not go any more, either will suit government for now although there will be increasing penalties for going to university unless you study something which demonstrably qualifies you for work.

Expect much talk soon of vocational learning, apprenticeships, fast-tracking, reskilling and so forth in the new HE education policy. Soon, there will be financial incentives for non- “Russell” (a corporate branding exercise whic neans bugger all) HE institutions to offer more courses which are specifically vocational and maybe not called “degrees” any longer. These courses will be offered in “sandwiches” with work experience and placements, delivered online at a time to suit you and paid for in installments. The more predatory Vice-chancellors will soon be offering to hand in their own gold-braided job titles for more funding and some institutions will doubtless advertise their new status by changing their names. What will these new institutions be called? Community Universities? City Universities? Technical Universities? University Colleges? The only thing they can't call them is Polytechnics because that would cause branding problems.

The university system in the United Kingdom is based on and run by moneyed privilege and intellectual snobbery but at the same time is funded by politicians who know little about education except what sells short-term to the electorate. They want their own children to go to “good” schools and “proper” universities and they want all voter-parents to think their children will too despite the principle of distinction and exclusion on which "good" schools and "proper" universities operate. Many of these same politicians have not read a book - except airport thrillers and policy documents - since they graduated. They cherish the idea, however, that having “gone to university” was a product of their own special cleverness and that became deeply embedded in their sense of who they are, which is a much more powerful thing than rational argument.

+1

Ask an academic what the point of higher education is and typically they are very clear on the matter; it's there to give them a job. Ask why anyone else should want it or pay for it and that laser-like clarity of vision suddenly becomes a lot more diffuse.

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+1

Ask an academic what the point of higher education is and typically they are very clear on the matter; it's there to give them a job. Ask why anyone else should want it or pay for it and that laser-like clarity of vision suddenly becomes a lot more diffuse.

Yes - refreshing to see that in "print".

For me another problem in HE is that whilst we have been spending more on HE, which although this has offered diminishing returns it has increased the absolute number of quality graduates who can contribute to our country and therefore enrich everyone. However, an increasing proportion of the very best have then gone to work in banking. This then fails to produce a lasting benefit to the population as our best math graduates (and many of the best math grads from all over the world) are working on how to exploit equities market price changes.

I agree HE needs severely limiting, maybe back to the 70s levels, but even if we did this we need to look at where our brightest and best are going. I feel now the best go to banking and the rest go to the civil service fast track scheme. The civil service have the potential to influence the path of our country for the good (and, if staffed by dullards, for the bad).

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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