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New Channel 4 Prog - THE GREAT BRITISH PROPERTY SCANDAL


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Agree 100%, so how about it Tiger Aspect, first episode dedicated to house values being to high in the UK, rather than the bank not lending.

My idea would be a rental cap, linked to council tax.

Council tax @ £1,000 per year x 5 to work out the maximum a landlord could charge a year.

£1000=£5,000 or twelve monthly payments of £416

This would have the added benefit of taxpayers (savings) paying less to landlords through housing benefits.

£416 is still extremely high for anybody on low pay and CT of £1000 is pretty typical of not very good areas. £416 is over 50% of my monthly income some months (though I am not in any long term employment right now just ticking over)

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Fix the planning laws.

Open up land availiability and the potenital for bubbles to blow in the first place will be diminished and sitting on empty property would be costly exercise, empty homes would come back on the market and be shifted.

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Fix the planning laws.

Open up land availiability and the potenital for bubbles to blow in the first place will be diminished and sitting on empty property would be costly exercise, empty homes would come back on the market and be shifted.

Yes, that too.

If we didn't have this planning blockage a credit/house prices bubble would trigger a construction boom, and in a few years this extra supply would bring prices back down to normal levels - and that's exactly what has happened in America, Ireland and Spain. That is why their house price bubbles was short lived, whilst ours is mostly still here.

We need affordable housing. Without it we can't even compete internationally - please see my forum signature, below :

Edited by Tired of Waiting
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£416 is still extremely high for anybody on low pay and CT of £1000 is pretty typical of not very good areas. £416 is over 50% of my monthly income some months (though I am not in any long term employment right now just ticking over)

Ken

The figures I gave was to only demonstrate my system. I have no problem if we had x2, x3 x4. Like you I live in an area of high unemployment, with work being sporadic, through an agency.

How frustrating to have saved and worked hard all my life (28 years) and today while going through this personal blip, not entitled to temporary financial help from the taxpayers through benefits.

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  • 4 months later...

I'm very much looking forward to this new series. Should start on December 5th on Channel 4.

Here's a link on the channel 4 website:

The Great British Property Scandal

Looks like our old friend Phil Spencer will be playing a part in the campaign too. :mellow:

This summer (2011), architect and TV presenter George Clarke began to investigate Britain's housing crisis and set out across the UK to discover why hundreds of thousands of properties were lying empty. George has found streets of houses caught up in red tape in areas where thousands of people are on housing waiting lists. He's met owners of properties that have been empty for years. And he's met people on the sharp end of the housing crisis - ex-soldiers sleeping on sofas, single mothers in overcrowded conditions and families from a professional background forced to give up on the dream of ever owning their own home.

"It's a crying shame that there are 350,000 long-term empty properties in the UK while 2 million families desperately need a home." says George.

"What I have seen has convinced me more than ever that urgent change is needed - and we can't just leave it to the government and councils to sort out our empty homes problem."

Edit: forgot link. :blink:

Edited by MattW
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A little investigation of the Pathfinder scheme, where thousands of renovatable houses have been emptied, still lie empty. The objective seemed to be get the poor people out of there home, let developers build new houses, sell at inflated market prices. Scheme developers happy, bankers rubbing their hands.

In some countries it might be called ethnic cleansing.

Channel 4 did an interesting programme on the cost/benefit option of renovation compared to demolition and rebuilding.

Property prices are simply too high in this county - due to a credit bubble, government interference and media hype.

Edit: spelling mistake

Edited by tinker
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Abolish self-certified mortgages.

Abolish buy-to-let mortgages.

Abolish SMI.

Introduce sensible, affordable repayable and non-fraudulent lending multiples.

Introduce a LVT.

You'll be amazed at how quickly the UK housing market corrects itself.

Abolish self-certified mortgages - YES they should be illegal anyway as they encourage fraud

Abolish buy to let mortgages - NO (controversial I know), but instead ensure Capital Gains Tax is paid (tax avoidance from loopholes such as registering a premises as your primary one for a few weeks and then selling it should be illegal).

I also agree that a land value tax would be the way to go. Fairer taxation system and much more up to date.

EDIT: I will also add that the HMRC should investigate BTLers. In fact they are already in the North of England I believe. They are concerned about the level of tax evasion in the sector and I think they are right to be. With their computer systems it should be possible to tie owners with occupiers and then see if they are declaring their income. My suspicions are billions are being lost on this and the previously mentioned Capital Gains Tax avoidance schemes.

Edited by Redcellar
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Empty homes is not just a problem at the bottom of the market. If anything it's even worse at the top where overseas buyers snap up property as a tax free investment.

Eg see the thread on One Hyde Park ( 89 luxury flats, 9 actually have people living in them)

This might not sound like it causes a problem, but the bankers that used to live in Kensington or Knightsbridge are now outbid by the world super-rich and instead live n clapham. Those in clapham now live in battersea and those in battersea.... until at the bottom someone has to live on their mate's sofa....

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Agree 100%, so how about it Tiger Aspect, first episode dedicated to house values being to high in the UK, rather than the bank not lending.

My idea would be a rental cap, linked to council tax.

Council tax @ £1,000 per year x 5 to work out the maximum a landlord could charge a year.

£1000=£5,000 or twelve monthly payments of £416

This would have the added benefit of taxpayers (savings) paying less to landlords through housing benefits.

Legislation scewing things in favour of the renter away from the rentier. Not going to happen, bar revolution and a "British Spring!" :lol:

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A little investigation of the Pathfinder scheme, where thousands of renovatable houses have been emptied, still lie empty. The objective seemed to be get the poor people out of there home, let developers build new houses, sell at inflated market prices. Scheme developers happy, bankers rubbing their hands.

In some countries it might be called ethic cleansing.

Channel 4 did an interesting programme on the cost/benefit option of renovation compared to demolition and rebuilding.

Property prices are simply too high in this county - due to a credit bubble, government interference and media hype.

Many of those compulsory purchased were mortgage free. They ended up with mortgages or paying rent! Well fancy that. Lord Prescott should be made to face his victims.

Even if you have 100% equity in your property, you are not safe from the debt creation ponzi.

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A little investigation of the Pathfinder scheme, where thousands of renovatable houses have been emptied, still lie empty. The objective seemed to be get the poor people out of there home, let developers build new houses, sell at inflated market prices. Scheme developers happy, bankers rubbing their hands.

In some countries it might be called ethic cleansing.

Channel 4 did an interesting programme on the cost/benefit option of renovation compared to demolition and rebuilding.

Property prices are simply too high in this county - due to a credit bubble, government interference and media hype.

You speak a world of truth. Pathfinder is one of the most insidious policies NuLab ever came up with. I was working in Stoke-on-Trent when it began. Nice little 2 or 3 bed terraces with a bit of outside space. Perfect for raising a small family/getting started - selling price £20k to £60k. Ripped down and replace with 1 bed new build shitholes selling for @100k upwards. In an area where the average salary must be £10k to £15k.

Utterly criminal. The beggars want shooting for the way they have ruined the life chances of ordinary working people in this country.

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A key point here is the be aware of the difference in the cost of throwing up a building and the cost of the land.

it is still possible to build a decent family house for around £50K (materials and labour) when people discuss high house prices they really mean high land prices.

If the Govt were to tax empty properties too heavily, it might actually pay people to bulldoze them (to avoid the tax) and then sell the land with planning permission*. Thats not something we should be encouraging at a time when we have a housing shortage.

(* planning permission is normally granted automatically when replacing a pre-existing building)

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Marvelous.

There is a shortage of at least 2 million houses according to demographic data but this show will have every NIMBY in the country convinced that this isn't the case based on their being 350k properties empty. Never mind that for the most part they are the worst quality housing in the worst areas.

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  • 2 weeks later...

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-great-british-property-scandal/articles/how-to-spot-an-empty/

Kicking off the season will be The Great British Property Scandal which is on Channel 4 on Monday 5th & Tuesday 6th December 2011. Architect and presenter George Clarke will front the series which will highlight the nearly two million British families who don’t have adequate housing, and the million-odd homes lying empty across the UK. Architect Clarke will set out to raise awareness of the issue and offer practical solutions for those affected.

Clarke argues that “the Government’s plan to build new homes is not necessarily the right approach,” and suggests ‘more cost effective and efficient ways to utilize the properties that are currently lying empty.” Clarke will also lobby central government and local councils to commit to re-using empty homes across the whole of the UK.

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http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-great-british-property-scandal/articles/how-to-spot-an-empty/

Kicking off the season will be The Great British Property Scandal which is on Channel 4 on Monday 5th & Tuesday 6th December 2011. Architect and presenter George Clarke will front the series which will highlight the nearly two million British families who don’t have adequate housing, and the million-odd homes lying empty across the UK. Architect Clarke will set out to raise awareness of the issue and offer practical solutions for those affected.

Clarke argues that “the Government’s plan to build new homes is not necessarily the right approach,” and suggests ‘more cost effective and efficient ways to utilize the properties that are currently lying empty.” Clarke will also lobby central government and local councils to commit to re-using empty homes across the whole of the UK.

Did this yesterday, no interest :rolleyes:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=172464

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This is the type of programming we need. Something to counter balance the VI only way is up property shows we have been drip fed over the past decade.

Now if only someone were to suggest to the have not younger generation that voting might be a good idea. What then?

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http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-great-british-property-scandal/articles/how-to-spot-an-empty/

Kicking off the season will be The Great British Property Scandal which is on Channel 4 on Monday 5th & Tuesday 6th December 2011. Architect and presenter George Clarke will front the series which will highlight the nearly two million British families who don’t have adequate housing, and the million-odd homes lying empty across the UK. Architect Clarke will set out to raise awareness of the issue and offer practical solutions for those affected.

Clarke argues that “the Government’s plan to build new homes is not necessarily the right approach,” and suggests ‘more cost effective and efficient ways to utilize the properties that are currently lying empty.” Clarke will also lobby central government and local councils to commit to re-using empty homes across the whole of the UK.

The one million empty homes figure is a joke: if you strip out all the properties that are up for sale, auction or awaiting a tenant, awaiting demolition or redevelopment, tied up in an estate going through probate, or where the owner has gone abroad for six months to work and doesn't fancy having their house trashed by a tenant, and so on, the actual number of long-term empty homes that could be sold or rented out is in the mere tens of thousands acrosss the whole country. I'm a small builder and have rung round all the Empty Homes officers in the boroughs near me in Berkshire and south Oxfordshire, and the number of viable properties where I could conceivably find out who the owner is and approach them to negotiate a sale for purposes of renovation is tiny.

I'll watch the programme and see what this chap has to say, and perhaps there are dead-end parts of the country with lots of empty houses because no-one wants to live there or employees site their business there, but what's the use of renovating those?

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The one million empty homes figure is a joke: if you strip out all the properties that are up for sale, auction or awaiting a tenant, awaiting demolition or redevelopment, tied up in an estate going through probate, or where the owner has gone abroad for six months to work and doesn't fancy having their house trashed by a tenant, and so on, the actual number of long-term empty homes that could be sold or rented out is in the mere tens of thousands acrosss the whole country.

Then if you add in all the ones being kept of the books the numbers hit 3m.

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The one million empty homes figure is a joke: if you strip out all the properties that are up for sale, auction or awaiting a tenant, awaiting demolition or redevelopment, tied up in an estate going through probate, or where the owner has gone abroad for six months to work and doesn't fancy having their house trashed by a tenant, and so on, the actual number of long-term empty homes that could be sold or rented out is in the mere tens of thousands acrosss the whole country. I'm a small builder and have rung round all the Empty Homes officers in the boroughs near me in Berkshire and south Oxfordshire, and the number of viable properties where I could conceivably find out who the owner is and approach them to negotiate a sale for purposes of renovation is tiny.

I'll watch the programme and see what this chap has to say, and perhaps there are dead-end parts of the country with lots of empty houses because no-one wants to live there or employees site their business there, but what's the use of renovating those?

The Empty Homes Officer?

How is any such person supposed to hear of most of the empty homes?

  • K. who moved in with her fiance - nice cottage vacated.

  • S. who moved back to her parents as carer for her mother for several years and stayed on after she died - perfectly adequate 3-bed semi standing empty for years.

  • J. inherited his parents 4-bed detached - coming up for a decade of having an unused house.

Incentivise these people and other accidental hoarders to bring their houses back into use and we could have much less of a problem!

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The Empty Homes Officer?

How is any such person supposed to hear of most of the empty homes?

  • K. who moved in with her fiance - nice cottage vacated.

  • S. who moved back to her parents as carer for her mother for several years and stayed on after she died - perfectly adequate 3-bed semi standing empty for years.

  • J. inherited his parents 4-bed detached - coming up for a decade of having an unused house.

Incentivise these people and other accidental hoarders to bring their houses back into use and we could have much less of a problem!

+1

Within my relatives there are four second home owners, only two of those has actually rented out their properties.

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The Empty Homes Officer?

How is any such person supposed to hear of most of the empty homes?

  • K. who moved in with her fiance - nice cottage vacated.

  • S. who moved back to her parents as carer for her mother for several years and stayed on after she died - perfectly adequate 3-bed semi standing empty for years.

  • J. inherited his parents 4-bed detached - coming up for a decade of having an unused house.

Incentivise these people and other accidental hoarders to bring their houses back into use and we could have much less of a problem!

Don't understand - do K, S and J own these empty properties? If so, are they too loaded to want to rent or sell?

And BTW some councils do incentivise owners of empty properties - subsidise renovations as long as they're then available for HB tenants.

So taxpayers' money goes to help improve someone's property, which is then rented to HB tenants, and more taxpayers' cash goes to the LL in rent.

Win-win for the LLs. Not sure any conditions are even attached, e.g. must be available for rent for at least X years, subsidised renovation money to be paid back with interest, etc.

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So what was the proposal?

You can't just takeover unoccupied homes and start commercially letting them - what about

the owner wants it back

who gets the rent, if not the owner, why not

what about bad tenants, trashing the place, the legal paper-chase afterwards etc

who brings the property up to any standard making it fit to rent

how long can property be dormant

The only option to co-opt empty properties into use is direct taxation of the owner - make it an expensive ballache to keep a property empty, and possibly seizure of long term abandoned properties where the identified owner can not be tracked through any means.

Anything else is just noise. Politicians and lawmakers don;t exactly have a good record on doing tax grabs for the general good and for sensible reasons. About the only way this would happen is if bankers deemed it the last source bailout from the uk taxpayer, then it might happen...

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You can't just takeover unoccupied homes and start commercially letting them - what about

the owner wants it back

who gets the rent, if not the owner, why not

what about bad tenants, trashing the place, the legal paper-chase afterwards etc

who brings the property up to any standard making it fit to rent

how long can property be dormant

Actually you (or rather your local council) can....

'Empty Dwelling Managment Order (EDMO)':

http://www.everyhomecounts.info/owning/powers/edmo

Empty Dwelling Management Orders (EDMOs) were introduced under the Housing Act 2004. The local authority applies to take over the management of the property, carrying out works if required and then renting out the property. Management and any refurbishment costs can be reclaimed from the rental income with any outstanding balance going to the owner.

'Empty Dwelling Management Orders: Guidance for residential property owners':

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/housing/emptydwellingmanagement

The Housing Act 2004 provides a new discretionary power for local authorities to take over the management of long-term privately owned empty homes.

The leaflet provides information to owners of empty properties to help them decide if their property is subject to an EDMO and it explains how EDMOs will be managed by the local authority and the owner's right to appeal.

'Compulsory purchase order threat to tackle problem of empty homes' [October 2011]:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/oct/08/compulsory-purchase-cornwall-empty-homes

A council with one of the biggest housing shortages in the country is threatening to use compulsory purchase orders against the owners of homes that have been left empty for six months or more.

Cornwall council says 3,597 flats and houses in the county have been empty for at least six months – some for many years – and has allocated £2m to spend on persuading owners to bring the them back into use. This does not include the holiday homes that make up 10% of the county's housing stock.

Interest-free loans of up to £15,000 can be claimed by owners of two-bed properties that have been empty for six months or more and need substantial work to make them habitable. Owners of one-bed homes can claim up to £7,500.

In return, the refurbished homes must be made available for some of the 18,931 households on the council's waiting list.

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