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341 Economists Write To The Times About The Cuts


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Why do people alway use these two examples of why we need the public sector? They never say how we need the planners or traffic wardens.

My guess is that when its time to be a firing, the teachers and bin men wont have too much to worry about.

Exactly.

Out of a council tax bill of, say £200 a month (pus the extra £400 pm from central gov?) how much is spent of services you really need? ...... a wild guess....... £40??

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:lol:

Indeed. If they were so bloody clever they also would have been writing to the Times screaming bloody murder when Gordon sold half our gold at the lowest price possible.

Tw@ts. Line 'em up up against the wall, inbetween the politicians and bankers.

Don't forget the management consultants...

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Exactly.

Out of a council tax bill of, say £200 a month (pus the extra £400 pm from central gov?) how much is spent of services you really need? ...... a wild guess....... £40??

What you personally need and what society needs to function properly are not the same.

About 60% of council spending goes on "Social care" - basically old people's homes and protecting children in care.

I'm not saying these services are delivered as well as they could be for the money spent on them just that people hungry services like care are far more expensive than anything I can think of that the private sector deliver.

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Ask yourself Monkey: if you withdrew labour, who would notice? Given that the reason for pay cuts and redundancies is lack of demand for product, perhaps not many people would. When I think of the private sector jobs I've had, the answer is either (i) no one or (ii) the shareholders in a couple of years time. When I think of the public sector positions I've held, if I didn't rock up they'd be problems.

That's because the public sector is organised to cause the maximum amount of crap to our lives. Why are bin collections done by the council, it should be in the hands of several private companies in any large town with routes capable of being swapped around on demand. I'd do the same for schools, all private. It wouldn't stop people going on strike but at least the council (people) could change their providers.

Edited by davidg
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That's because the public sector is organised to cause the maximum amount of crap to our lives. Why are bin collections done by the council, it should be in the hands of several private companies in any large town with routes capable of being swapped around on demand. I'd do the same for schools, all private. It wouldn't stop people going on strike but at least the council (people) could change their providers.

How would that be better?

Bin collection needs expensive specialised equipment and, most importantly, a place to dump all the rubbish.

Private companies won't invest the capital unless they are guaranteed the routes for a certain period of time.

The only place it works is for regional recycling centres where the largest companies invest a lot of money to become the regional operator for recycling collections. They only do this with LONG term contracts in place and certainly the idea of competition destroys the margins they operate on.

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How would that be better?

Bin collection needs expensive specialised equipment and, most importantly, a place to dump all the rubbish.

Private companies won't invest the capital unless they are guaranteed the routes for a certain period of time.

The only place it works is for regional recycling centres where the largest companies invest a lot of money to become the regional operator for recycling collections. They only do this with LONG term contracts in place and certainly the idea of competition destroys the margins they operate on.

That is rubbish as businesses use private companies for refuse collection because they are cheaper than using the council.

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Why do people alway use these two examples of why we need the public sector? They never say how we need the planners or traffic wardens.

My guess is that when its time to be a firing, the teachers and bin men wont have too much to worry about.

There are plenty of other examples, as highlighted by Timak below.

Well by the same token the public sector could accept a 10% (?) wage cut or a 10% cut in the number of staff.

Also, don't forget you can chose to decline services from the private sector if they are too expensive ........ try not paying your council tax if it is too expensive. Does that seem right?

I'm not sure where you got the idea that arguments are commutable. Your second argument is impossible to engage with: can't really compare a tax with a fee for service. Otherwise shortsighted idiots would withhold payment when they're young only to get annoyed when they're old and meals and wheels has been cancelled.

What you personally need and what society needs to function properly are not the same.

About 60% of council spending goes on "Social care" - basically old people's homes and protecting children in care.

I'm not saying these services are delivered as well as they could be for the money spent on them just that people hungry services like care are far more expensive than anything I can think of that the private sector deliver.

The example of Southern Cross seems to provide the most salty rejoinder to any arguments re hyperefficient private sector delivery of social services.

That's because the public sector is organised to cause the maximum amount of crap to our lives. Why are bin collections done by the council, it should be in the hands of several private companies in any large town with routes capable of being swapped around on demand. I'd do the same for schools, all private. It wouldn't stop people going on strike but at least the council (people) could change their providers.

See above. But x100 in your case.

That is rubbish as businesses use private companies for refuse collection because they are cheaper than using the council.

Yes - and just look how much p1ssing and moaning is going on.

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When the feck are the cuts going to begin? When is a single public sector worker that I know - bear in mind I live in a city where 70% of the workforce are in the public sector - loses their job? Just one! Just a token firing!?

I work for a uni (for the next six and half hours :P)

We are losing around 10% of staff, for starters - depending on how 2012/13 goes (they'll get a good idea of that in Sept when the applications come in, or perhaps don't come in). We have had voluntary redundancy with a fair few jumping ship (I think several hundred). It wasn't enough and now a whole host of people have been put at risk. They are going through the uni section by section with a eye to cull.

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I've never heard of a public sector worker losing their job since the coalition coming to power. I think what is happening is though is what I talked about in my last thread about the government not replacing people when they retire.

My mum's job is going (local council); everyone is being 're-positioned' with significant redundancies.

Kid's primary school is losing a teacher and having to merge 2 years.

Last unemployment figures showed public sector down 24k.. and these processes do take time, so it's only just starting to show up; the obvious one being that education-sector redundancies will only start showing up after the end of the academic year.

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Yawn...the left love writing these big 'concerned of Hampstead' group letters don't they? I recall a similar one saying that Boris Johnson shouldn't be allowed to become mayor of London, despite being democratically elected.

On the private/public sector topic - today I had to publish a press release from a government department. It was really badly written with mixed up tenses, waffle and jargon - totally unclear - and it took me (private sector worker) half an hour or so to get it into a publishable format. If they'd employed someone literate in the first place it would have made things a bit easier!

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"An economist is someone who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today"

It's like asking a general if we should go to war. To get ahead in economics you have to be a Keynesian because the top bods are. If you don't agree then you will never be promoted and probably not keep your job at all. A strange world where advancement is made not by correctly predicting the future of the economy, but by predicting the consensus of economists.

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My mum's job is going (local council); everyone is being 're-positioned' with significant redundancies.

Kid's primary school is losing a teacher and having to merge 2 years.

Last unemployment figures showed public sector down 24k.. and these processes do take time, so it's only just starting to show up; the obvious one being that education-sector redundancies will only start showing up after the end of the academic year.

My mom wants to leave her council position under VR, she is having to wait for a decision let alone a date. It's a long drawn out process.

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That is rubbish as businesses use private companies for refuse collection because they are cheaper than using the council.

Commercial waste is different to domestic waste.

Commercial waste is open to competition and it is feasible to have competition in this area.

I don't think there is any way competing services would be able to make a profit on the cost councils actually charge for domestic waste collection. All in - bins collected, recycling collected and rubbish dumped - comes to about 70p per householder per week.

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Commercial waste is different to domestic waste.

Commercial waste is open to competition and it is feasible to have competition in this area.

I don't think there is any way competing services would be able to make a profit on the cost councils actually charge for domestic waste collection. All in - bins collected, recycling collected and rubbish dumped - comes to about 70p per householder per week.

This seems low, do you have a source for that figure? ( as it would mean only £37 of my £1550 annual council tax is being spent on refuse collection and processing.) Where's the other £1513 going?

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I've never heard of a public sector worker losing their job since the coalition coming to power. I think what is happening is though is what I talked about in my last thread about the government not replacing people when they retire.

If the public sector is 8 million strong, and just 5% retire or die or get disabled or leave for other opportunity this year.. that works out to 400,000 people.

Any large organisation has a churn of about 6% per year ( 3% retirement, 3% people leaving, pregnancy, new job etc). The "Cuts" the Coalition were hoping to acheive over 4 years were trumpeted as 25% (IIRC) which is roughly 4 x 6%. What a coincidence!

Which is why, the scale of mass redundancies is not nearly as large as people were expecting, Give it a 5 year blast of %5 inflation ( to chew down some of the non index linked liabilities) and it all looks wonderful on paper.

I don't think however, that they have fully thought through the unintended consequences.

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I don't think however, that they have fully thought through the unintended consequences.

which are?

(I am thinking of a few but I don't wanna prompt you, interested in your unprompted opinion)

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  • 415 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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