Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
interestrateripoff

Stephen King: Western Nations May Be Forced To Sell Off Some Of Their Prized Assets

Recommended Posts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/stephen-king/stephen-king-western-nations-may-be-forced-to-sell-off-some-of-their-prized-assets-2300034.html

Pieces of paper. That's all they are. Whether they're cash, government bonds, equities or pension promises, they all amount to the same thing. They represent claims on future economic output. What happens, though, when we discover these accumulated claims are simply too big to be satisfied? What happens when we discover that the future is neither bright nor orange but, instead, a depressing shade of grey?

This, unfortunately, is the reality that's befallen the Western world. While it's convenient to blame the financial crisis, we need to dig a little deeper. As Western populations age, we end up with an inverted population pyramid: the boomers head off into retirement while the population of those who are working age shrinks.

But if the boomers' savings are made up of pieces of paper – claims on future economic activity – and the working-age population is shrinking as a share of the total population, it's hardly surprising that, collectively, these pieces of paper may turn out to be worth less than they originally appeared to be. If future output is lower than the claims made upon it, those claims will have to be reduced.

And that, sadly, is what we're seeing today. In the eurozone, we're witnessing a struggle between those who own pieces of paper – most obviously German creditors – and those who issued pieces of paper – Greek debtors. The Germans legally have a claim on future Greek tax revenues. The Greeks, meanwhile, are discovering their economy isn't quite as strong as it once was and they'd rather use their – limited – tax revenues for domestic purposes rather than repaying the Germans.

Elsewhere, inflation is rising, thereby reducing the usefulness of cash. While the upheavals in the Middle East and North Africa have all sorts of causes, there can be no doubt that the rising price of food – which, in effect, has reduced the value of people's meagre cash savings – has contributed to a sense of injustice. That, in turn, has added to the growing opposition to regimes which have persistently failed to spread economic wealth far and wide. And, for the people of Britain, life has become a lot more expensive recently, not only because inflation has picked up but because sterling's value on the foreign exchanges has dropped: the pound in your pocket no longer buys you that dream holiday in warm foreign climes.

More at the link.

This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this in the UK mainstream press, although for avid readers of HPC there is nothing new in the article.

Pieces of paper it's almost as if they are discussing what money is and represents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The Germans legally have a claim on future Greek tax revenues. The Greeks, meanwhile, are discovering their economy isn't quite as strong as it once was and they'd rather use their – limited – tax revenues for domestic purposes rather than repaying the Germans."

Maybe someone should point out to the Germans that they themselves were in this position after the first world war, and we all know what that led to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Forced by whom? China? They'll collapse just as Russia collapsed.

We stick two fingers up, implement measures to repatriate capital and let the surplus countries create their own demand.

Globalisation is a choice. We can decide our future - but we have to kick out the politicians owned by banksters first which as it appears the Greeks could well end up doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well exactly, none if it's real is it. Not the debt, or those bits of paper with pictures on or those numbers on the computer. The way they go on you'd think it was real money at stake, not some fantasy stuff pulled out of a bankers backside and sprayed all over the shop like a bad case of diarrhea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe someone should point out to the Germans that they themselves were in this position after the first world war, and we all know what that led to.

The Germans and their French allies dominating Europe and the likes of Great Britain and Greece bankrupting themselves while attempting to obey their dictats?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The Germans legally have a claim on future Greek tax revenues. The Greeks, meanwhile, are discovering their economy isn't quite as strong as it once was and they'd rather use their – limited – tax revenues for domestic purposes rather than repaying the Germans."

but if it can be proved that the whole financial debacle was indeed designed to impoverish the rest of europe/US by less than honest practice(involving some fairly decent economic policy on their part,but with the deliberate sabotage by proxy politics/economics(thanks tony!!..windrush invetments doing ok are they?)of other countries.

then we do have laws in this country concerning obtaining money by deception.

therefore ill gotten gains are null and void,and can be confiscated.

hold on to your handbags,it's going to be a bumpy ride!

Edited by oracle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
name='General Congreve' timestamp='1308601406' post='3029240']

Well exactly, none if it's real is it. Not the debt, or those bits of paper with pictures on or those numbers on the computer. The way they go on you'd think it was real money at stake, not some fantasy stuff pulled out of a bankers backside and sprayed all over the shop like a bad case of diarrhea.

Forced by whom? China? They'll collapse just as Russia collapsed.

We stick two fingers up, implement measures to repatriate capital and let the surplus countries create their own demand.

Globalisation is a choice. We can decide our future - but we have to kick out the politicians owned by banksters first which as it appears the Greeks could well end up doing.

I'm liking the way guy's are thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.independe...ts-2300034.html

More at the link.

This is the first time I've ever seen anything like this in the UK mainstream press, although for avid readers of HPC there is nothing new in the article.

Pieces of paper it's almost as if they are discussing what money is and represents.

This is also the problem with the scam of PFi.

NHS, Skool budgets, Military funding are now all being reduced - but the inflationary payments to PFi funded projects still has to be made - leaving less to be spent elsewhere.

By the way - you NEVER see the money diverted on PFi projects mentioned under Military outgoings/spending cos all the previous 'Meltchets' probably did very nicely out of signing the projects off!

So they now have no fighting funds and have to 'cut back' sending soldiers out without body armour, driving sub-standard vehicles and with guns that are known to jam in dusty conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The Germans legally have a claim on future Greek tax revenues. The Greeks, meanwhile, are discovering their economy isn't quite as strong as it once was and they'd rather use their – limited – tax revenues for domestic purposes rather than repaying the Germans."

Maybe someone should point out to the Germans that they themselves were in this position after the first world war, and we all know what that led to.

Somehow i dont fear the rise of an Adolfos Hitlertopodoplous. Anyway, the greeks cant print to hyperinflation like the germans did in the Weimar...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As the global sovereign debt boom was based on £trillions upon £trillions of fraud it might take some time proving the extent of the debt and even that the debt is actually legal in order to match any assets to be handed over in order to compensate for liabilities Quite apart from the issue of money/debt being created from nothing etc etc etc.

So it could take decades to resolve the issue legally before they start to hand over sovereign land etc. On the other hand the politicians will likely just sell the people down the river, likely they'll all just roll over and hand over any country's sovereignty in exchange for the slightest tickle of a bankers brown envelope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I quote myself from another thread :)

That's an interesting point. Why should the masses pay to keep the elite/banking cartels in business? Well, they shouldn't have to. They should just be allowed to fail. There should not have been a debt transfer from private to sovereign. But that's a slow motion car crash which is an entirely separate issue from the Euro.

As far as government overspending, undertaxing, undercollecting is concerned - all state - then yes, the Greek people are responsible for that, because while I can see that you could/should be able to separate private debts from governments (the point above) the Greek people elected their socialist style government and lived the life, time to pay the piper. Greece didn't have to borrow/overspend to this degree. That's what Governments do when they can get away with it. The EUR effectively presents this as an issue in stark and obvious terms whereas the UK can obfuscate and inflate.

Doesn't seem fair to the so called ordinary hard working majority (who don't benefit from the inflation in the UK either), but they elect those governments. So if they needed to sell of Cyprus, Crete, Corfu etc (geography was never my strong point) I don't suppose all the people there would be happy about being forcibly repatriated to the mainland while China buys up the islands/Greek state or whatever. But this kind of event needs to happen to stop Governments doing what Governments do: spending money they don't have because there are actually consequences.

Or, just default. Consequences there too.

Everyone's looking for the option which carries no consequences.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=163047&view=findpost&p=2974659

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And i was called a nut case 4 years ago when i said that the ultimate goal was state asset stripping. Greece should default rather than sell its assets, default on a loan is much easy than sellng your assets because in the end you'll default but you' be worse off because you dont have any assets and teh country is messed up, and the only way out of that is for the government to steal back those assets but it'll end up in war.

So default before any assets stripping is the best outcome, state remains in control of the assets while those people that engineered this mess will end up craps creek.

Whats going on is the same old story transfering assets from teh state into private hands,

Edited by crash2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the sensible option is for Greece to default. Indeed I think it's the inevitable outcome.

And i was called a nut case 4 years ago when i said that the ultimate goal was state asset stripping. Greece should default rather than sell its assets, default on a loan is much easy than sellng your assets because in the end you'll default but you' be worse off because you dont have any assets and teh country is messed up, and the only way out of that is for the government to steal back those assets but it'll end up in war.

So default before any assets stripping is the best outcome, state remains in control of the assets while those people that engineered this mess will end up craps creek.

Whats going on is the same old story transfering assets from teh state into private hands,

However where's the moral argument here? Greece didn't have to borrow the money. If they weren't up to their necks in debt.... ;)

As an analogy, I often hear "Well, nobody needed to take out such big mortgages, it's their fault if they go under". Yes. Quite so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the sensible option is for Greece to default. Indeed I think it's the inevitable outcome.

However where's the moral argument here? Greece didn't have to borrow the money. If they weren't up to their necks in debt.... ;)

As an analogy, I often hear "Well, nobody needed to take out such big mortgages, it's their fault if they go under". Yes. Quite so.

The lenders did not have to give them the loan either.

Moral hazard cuts both ways in financial transactions.

Caveat emptor applies to those buying sovereign debt quite as much as to anything else.

Edited by stormymonday_2011

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the sensible option is for Greece to default. Indeed I think it's the inevitable outcome.

However where's the moral argument here? Greece didn't have to borrow the money. If they weren't up to their necks in debt.... ;)

As an analogy, I often hear "Well, nobody needed to take out such big mortgages, it's their fault if they go under". Yes. Quite so.

The issue here was who took out those debts it wasnt the tax payer, it was thise MPs but did the MPs tell the public no, so greece as a nation should default...

The chinese are already gearing up for war, to protect their assets, look at the massive arms build up in China, China havent played fair nor should it buyers.

Edited by crash2006

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the sensible option is for Greece to default. Indeed I think it's the inevitable outcome.

However where's the moral argument here? Greece didn't have to borrow the money. If they weren't up to their necks in debt.... ;)

As an analogy, I often hear "Well, nobody needed to take out such big mortgages, it's their fault if they go under". Yes. Quite so.

The flipside is that the popualtions across the Eu were told they would all be more proposerous if they joined. Same with globalisation - follow it and you will all be better off.

It was all a lie and confidence trick, debt has been used to falsify the figures and incomes - to patch everything up to get yes votes. Now it is ll fallling apart.

similrly with housing - who in the end has a chaice in taking up the debt - do it or be damned - the message to get ever more heavily in debt was rammed down the public's throat and and elsewhere. Refuse to participate and get locked out of the majority of stable housing situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The lenders did not have to give them the loan either.

Moral hazard cuts both ways in financial transactions.

Caveat emptor applies to those buying sovereign debt quite as much as to anything else.

Completely agree. In fact one striking aspect of this whole saga is that creditors were still lending to Greece post 2007. I guess much has to do with the ratings agencies.

Can anyone help me on this one - the argument that "Greece should leave the Euro" - aren't the loans denominated in Euros, and therefore it wouldn't make any difference? Or is the strategy to fall back to a new currency (or the old one) and reprice the loans at the "then" exchange rate that's determined, and then inflate it away later? Why would a creditor accept that any more readily; aren't they going to expect their Euros back as per the loan agreement?

And similarly, why would anyone lend money to a sovereign country with its own currency - like the UK - and denominate it in the host's currency of GBP so they can inflate it away? I wouldn't lend someone in Australia 10000 AUSD and expect them to repay me 10000 AUSD. I'd lend £10k or whatever and expect my £10k back. What bit am I missing?

As when I look at it, surely lending in Euros to a Eurozone country ought to be safer than lending to a country outside the Eurozone since it's bound in by the exchange rate so it can't default by stealth (inflation). It can only default outright, which is what the ratings agencies and creditors should have been analysing.

It isn't as if this situation suddenly blew up; that nobody could have seen where it was going. Risk has progressively been mispriced for the purpose of short term gain thanks to the magic of leveraging money that never really existed to create more money that doesn't exist either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue here was who took out those debts it wasnt the tax payer, it was thise MPs but did the MPs tell the public no, so greece as a nation should default...

That's why previously I've argued that the Euro is such a good thing, because it screws over the countries which spend more than they earn and rightly so, since it has to be paid back. The Euro acts as a straitjacket to stop Governments overborrowing and overspending and mercilessly exposes those who do. And just about every Government does that when it can. Look at us... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone help me on this one - the argument that "Greece should leave the Euro" - aren't the loans denominated in Euros, and therefore it wouldn't make any difference? Or is the strategy to fall back to a new currency (or the old one) and reprice the loans at the "then" exchange rate that's determined, and then inflate it away later? Why would a creditor accept that any more readily; aren't they going to expect their Euros back as per the loan agreement?

What exactly are the creditors going to do? Send in the bailiffs? If the Greeks say 'sorry, we're paying you back in new improved Greekuros', then the bankers can take them or get nothing.

The Greeks would be mad to hand over their assets to bankers when they could just tell them to get stuffed. No-one in their right mind should have lent money to a country with a history of being an economic basket-case anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is also the problem with the scam of PFi.

NHS, Skool budgets, Military funding are now all being reduced - but the inflationary payments to PFi funded projects still has to be made - leaving less to be spent elsewhere.

By the way - you NEVER see the money diverted on PFi projects mentioned under Military outgoings/spending cos all the previous 'Meltchets' probably did very nicely out of signing the projects off!

So they now have no fighting funds and have to 'cut back' sending soldiers out without body armour, driving sub-standard vehicles and with guns that are known to jam in dusty conditions.

Here's one for you.(MOD PFi - £4 Billion)

When Bent Govt elites feel like shutting down all normal telecoms networks - certain services have special mobile chips which access/work on this network

It seems to me more like an advanced control tool of the elected elites being put in place (many of whom are into a global takeover conspiracy against their people)

Why spend all that cash on "World's most advanced" - then reduce military personnel???

Paradigm – The world’s most advanced, resilient, secure and flexible military satellite communications service

Paradigm supplies military hardened satellite communications, primarily to the UK armed forces but also to a range of other governments and organisations around the world.

Our military satellite communications (Milsatcom) services are delivered through the three Skynet (Terminator coming true) 5 satellites launched between 2007 and 2008. The satellites can be precisely controlled so that pinpoint voice, internet, and broadcast communications can be directed to any part of the globe.

Skynet 5 has been designed to meet the needs of the UK armed forces through to 2020 at least. Under the terms of our arrangements with the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD), the massive additional capacity designed into the system can be made available to other military and government users, including NATO.

As a company, Paradigm was established to deliver the Skynet 5 service for the UK armed forces, (by who?) as part of an innovative and sophisticated £3.6 billion PFI (Private Finance Initiative) arrangement.

Paradigm is wholly owned by EADS, the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The flipside is that the popualtions across the Eu were told they would all be more proposerous if they joined. Same with globalisation - follow it and you will all be better off.

It was all a lie and confidence trick, debt has been used to falsify the figures and incomes - to patch everything up to get yes votes. Now it is ll fallling apart.

similrly with housing - who in the end has a chaice in taking up the debt - do it or be damned - the message to get ever more heavily in debt was rammed down the public's throat and and elsewhere. Refuse to participate and get locked out of the majority of stable housing situations.

You'd be foolish not going along with the being more prosperous and having a happier life...

We've lived in a massive bubble, now the correction cometh and we all get bitch slapped by the invisible hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And that, sadly, is what we're seeing today. In the eurozone, we're witnessing a struggle between those who own pieces of paper – most obviously German creditors – and those who issued pieces of paper – Greek debtors. The Germans legally have a claim on future Greek tax revenues. The Greeks, meanwhile, are discovering their economy isn't quite as strong as it once was and they'd rather use their – limited – tax revenues for domestic purposes rather than repaying the Germans.

Legally? What law is this? I thought the Greeks only promised to repay.

I suppose they could be breaking contract law, but people and companies void these every day through bankruptcy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pieces of paper it's almost as if they are discussing what money is and represents.

A dangerous path for the masses to start thinking about this.

They may consider it only as good as a liar's promise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.