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The Masked Tulip

Europe: 'events Have Overwhelmed Us'

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It should go into the big Greek thread... or maybe the Spanish thread... or maybe the Italy thread... Oh perhaps we should just create an entirely new 'The EU is fecked' thread?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13841105

The second bit of mood music I take away from the weekend is the word "gloom" constantly appended to the thoughts and statements of Angela Merkel. As she put it:

"We wouldn't be able to control an insolvency; we all lived through Lehman Brothers. I don't want another such threat to emanate from Europe."

But if the banks and investment funds (and hedge funds who've taken a punt on the Euro's survival) are not to be made to lose money who does?

Apparently French and German industrialists are taking out a one-page ad in all the papers urging the politicians and people of Europe to "save the Euro" - by way of softening public opinion for the inevitable transfer of tens of billions of taxpayers' money to the peripheral economies.

Having established the metaphor of pre-1914 Europe I will stick with it. The internationalists and anti-war movements expected there to be a general strike and mass protests on Day One of the First World War: instead the working populations of Europe rushed to the streets in mass jubilation, calling for immediate victory against each other.

Their dreams shattered, the activists turned to their leaders for an explanation. In France, the Socialist Party - in mid-flipflop between pacifism and bellicosity - delivered the immortal line: "Events have overwhelmed us."

Edited by The Masked Tulip

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It should go into the big Greek thread... or maybe the Spanish thread... or maybe the Italy thread... Oh perhaps we should just create an entirely new 'The EU is fecked' thread?

Which gets sucked into the West if screwed thread, then onto the World is screwed thread... Evolution...

Really must get the dark cloak sorted and construct the placard with the immortal words "We are all doomed." :P

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by way of softening public opinion for the inevitable transfer of tens of billions of taxpayers' money to the peripheral economies

When will they finally stop spinning and lying?

It's NOT as transfer to the peripheral economies, it's a transfer straight into the coffers of the banksters!

Edited by wise_eagle

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"Apparently French and German industrialists are taking out a one-page ad in all the papers urging the politicians and people of Europe to "save the Euro" - by way of softening public opinion for the inevitable transfer of tens of billions of taxpayers' money to the peripheral economies."

so the French and German financial systems want bailing out for lending money to Nick the Greek

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The Euro experiment was doomed from the get go.

Too many differing ideologies, too many cultural and societal differences.

Far too many established families and oligarchs to feed from one centralised coffer.

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The Euro experiment was doomed from the get go.

Too many differing ideologies, too many cultural and societal differences.

Far too many established families and oligarchs to feed from one centralised coffer.

Don't think it has failed - for a whole host of VIs it has been incredibly successful for them - just not for the rest of us.

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When will they finally stop spinning and lying?

It's NOT as transfer to the peripheral economies, it's a transfer straight into the coffers of the banksters!

It is a tiresome job having to continually correct the widespread 'newspeak' MSM misconceptions of 'hard working Germans paying for lazy Greeks to lie around in the sun drinking Ouzo all day', so it is good that someone is willing to do his bit.

Although I would add, that the money goes straight onto the balance sheets of the insolvent banksters in order to be able to cover 'debts' to the financial elites who are the major shareholders and bondholders in all these insitutions.

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The whole sentiment has changed practically overnight. With the Straw thing and the MSM going gloomy it really is endgame now.

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I think it would just be an awful lot easier to let a few stupid banksters go bust, and let the Greeks move on. Just treat Greece like a pre-pack insolvency of a limited company.

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Apparently French and German industrialists are taking out a one-page ad in all the papers urging the politicians and people of Europe to "save the Euro" - by way of softening public opinion for the inevitable transfer of tens of billions of taxpayers' money to the peripheral economies.

In reality urging just the politicians as things are happening so fast they can't get round everywhere at the moment with enough individual "incentives"

I dare say the UK industrialists will be taking the same stance as the French and German industrialists as they're often one and the same and after all they all have bases in most countries.

So, from the article, in the UK they'll be asking the people whose jobs they're either relentlessly being offshored year on year on year or being gound down to minimum wage and put on offer to all and sundry incomers from overseas and east europe etc to save the euro and by implication likely the eu along with the policies that create those circumstances.

Edited by billybong

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I advise anyone with an hour of time to listen/watch the hour-long debate in the Commons today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/house_of_commons/newsid_9517000/9517544.stm

Very gloomy re: the future of the Eurozone.

Eurosceptics triumphant.

surely it would be better time spent and more productive listening to them debate a field of expertise such as windowlicking

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surely it would be better time spent and more productive listening to them debate a field of expertise such as windowlicking

If you stop being so cynical for a moment you'd find that other than the comments of the Minister (who's doing his best to not cause outright panic, bank runs, etc) and one or two Nu-Labor kunts, the House this afternoon sounded like a convention of HPCers!! :blink:

Edited by Chuffy Chuffnell

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The Euro experiment was doomed from the get go.

Too many differing ideologies, too many cultural and societal differences.

Far too many established families and oligarchs to feed from one centralised coffer.

And too many differing climates.

This is what people never understand when they talk about the different economic speeds of the North compared to the South, and the "laziness" of the Southern Med peoples.

In Britain, it is easy to work a 9 till 6 day all year round in an office, a factory or outdoors, and dash about doing lots of different jobs in the evening. Try doing that in Greece during the summer months; I used to struggle to keep my pupils together even at the end of April and early September in an air-conditioned classroom -- they just flopped about and whined and complained about being hot. :D

Besides the climate dictates the need for siestas, which is a massive chunk out of the day, because it gets impossible to even walk down the street. Even in the evenings, the heat can be too wearing to try and shop, or catch up on work.

A lot of the "laziness" is down to the fact it is really difficult, for nearly five months of the year, to work a productive time/effort ratio in many of these Southern Med countries, purely because of the heat. If I take my normal British hour/effort ratio as 100 percent, then I reckon, at best, I could work at 65 percent in June and July in Southern Greece.

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If you stop being so cynical for a moment you'd find that other than the comments of the Minister (who's doing his best to not cause outright panic, bank runs, etc) and one or two Nu-Labor kunts, the House this afternoon sounded like a convention of HPCers!! :blink:

i only have to look at your speaker who should be doing porridge along with about 100 other MPs who the british electorate reelected in its wisdom to gauge the level of self interest overwhelming any other factor, was there a hot debate between your chancellor espousing the Irish debt model against the Rt hon member of Kirkcaldys mores sensible view of an imminent golden age of Banking,

I can see it now in a few years our default started in America, was prolonged by Europe, the hot summer in Burkinofasa didnt help, but i categorically tell my Rt Hon Friend it has fck all to do with us continuously spending more than generated

Edited by georgia o'keeffe

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I think it would just be an awful lot easier to let a few stupid banksters go bust, and let the Greeks move on. Just treat Greece like a pre-pack insolvency of a limited company.

Sigh.

Some people just don't get it. :rolleyes:

The banksters arn't gambling with their own money, they are using peoples saving and pension money.

If Greece deafults, it's pensions that get wiped out, not bankers.

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If you stop being so cynical for a moment you'd find that other than the comments of the Minister (who's doing his best to not cause outright panic, bank runs, etc) and one or two Nu-Labor kunts, the House this afternoon sounded like a convention of HPCers!! :blink:

Makes you wonder what whispers are going around Westminster about the situation re this mess.

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This is what people never understand when they talk about the different economic speeds of the North compared to the South, and the "laziness" of the Southern Med peoples.

Ok, so there are temperature differences which account for varied working hours, but that doesn't explain why they get paid for 13 months a year, retire many years sooner and have a disproportionately large public sector

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Ok, so there are temperature differences which account for varied working hours, but that doesn't explain why they get paid for 13 months a year, retire many years sooner and have a disproportionately large public sector

Here's the explanation of why the Greeks do all of that: BECAUSE THEY WANT TO.

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BBC News at Ten just now they had Hugh and Pesto batting gloomily back and forth through gritted teeth, with arch-realist Hugh, when forced to turn to the future, asking "so what is the best possible outcome?" so we can all focus on that and forget all other outcomes.

The World Tonight broadcast quite a meaty Straw 'let's face it: the euro is buggered' clip, immediately followed by an academic I'd never heard of confirming the extent of the sodomy. So clearly the Beeb's Labour puppetmasters have given them the green light to broadcast the euro's obituary. I wonder what their thinking is? To try to rehabilitate their economic legacy by shouting from the rooftops loudly and often that Brown kept us out?

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Ok, so there are temperature differences which account for varied working hours, but that doesn't explain why they get paid for 13 months a year, retire many years sooner and have a disproportionately large public sector

Point taken. :D

However, in their defense, much of the corruption in the public sector (getting paid for a job you never turn up to etc) is because it is pretty difficult to live on public sector salaries over there. Wages can be stupidly low, and the cost of living since the euro came in is high.

Greeks are not inherently dodgy; they just live within a very different economic paradigm to us Brits with a legacy of anarchic attitudes towards the state caused by the centuries of living under the Ottomans. The nepotism is horrendous over there: if you don't have a "connection", it is almost impossible to find any reasonably paid work.

I would say, however, that the old guard can be very naive when it comes to economics. Last year, I was talking to an old friend who runs a restaurant. When I asked him about the impact of the euro and the exchange rate with sterling impacting on his business in terms of the tourist pound, he said "what of it? The euro is just currency." He singularly failed to understand that his prices has almost doubled to a British tourist and that was why his British customers had disappeared.

I think my feeling is that the Greeks have, for centuries, been screwed and this time it is their elites who have done it to them. And, honestly, if you saw the state of the Greek state education system, you wouldn't want to pay tax either.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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