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Prepare To Meet Thy Euro Doom - Jack Straw

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He's not in the cheeriest of moods -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13839381

"What the government should do instead of sheltering behind the complacent language, weasel words that 'it is not appropriate, we should not speculate' is recognise that this eurozone cannot last," he said.

"And it is the responsibility of the British government to be open with the British people now about the alternative prospects.

And since the euro, in its current form, is going to collapse is it not better that this happens quickly rather than a slow death."

Edited by inflating

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:lol:

Of course when Jack Straw was foreign secretary he voiced quite different views. And at the time one man spoke out against the Euro, warning of its inevitable failure (whilst the Labour lot were saying that our membership was inevitable..)...

6d2471f7-aedf-4af1-8587-0f27daf5ee42.jpg

Now he's foreign secretary and must be loving it. Nothing like a spot of economic warfare. Bring on the Chinese lol.. :blink:

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:lol:

Of course when Jack Straw was foreign secretary he voiced quite different views. And at the time one man spoke out against the Euro, warning of its inevitable failure (whilst the Labour lot were saying that our membership was inevitable..)...

6d2471f7-aedf-4af1-8587-0f27daf5ee42.jpg

Now he's foreign secretary and must be loving it. Nothing like a spot of economic warfare. Bring on the Chinese lol.. :blink:

I think a lot of people spoke out against the euro. Labour were in power for 13 years, I think if they'd been mad keen enough for us to join we'd be in it by now, by hook or by crook. In the end I think only smiley blair really fancied it, so he didn't have to change currencies on the way to tuscany.

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Oh of course many spoke out against our membership of the Eurozone, and thankfully it meant all major parties were committed (and still are) to a referendum in order to join.

Mandelson, the banking elite lacky, was the one behind the UK's (potential) membership. Don't forget he was on the news as recently as 2008/9 suggesting that the UK join the Euro as immediately as possible because of the credit crunch et al. Utter tool.

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I think a lot of people spoke out against the euro. Labour were in power for 13 years, I think if they'd been mad keen enough for us to join we'd be in it by now, by hook or by crook. In the end I think only smiley blair really fancied it, so he didn't have to change currencies on the way to tuscany.

Brown did fight to keep us out of the Euro, against Blair's wishes. It almost made up for selling off all that gold.

From the voices of the grey suits starting to say things, we really are at the end of the Euro. That must mean Germany are about to pull out.

If I were in charge of the UK now, I would do one thing. Change the pensions legislation, so that defined benefit pension plans can reduce the benefits to those receiving pensions already, they shouldnt have special creditor status. A lot of pension plans are going to be hit indirectly by all of this, and the only fair thing to do is ensure that those working and paying into pension schemes are not wiped out. It would also give leeway to those companies with schemes in deficit, to decrease benefits and also save their own solvency, something that itself would have enormous net benefits for the UK.

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it is the responsibility of the British government to be open with the British people

Says the man who consipired with Blair to mislead the country over Iraq.

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He looks like a white Laurence Fishburne

Judging by his policies, I reckon he took the red pill. Now we are about to find out how far down the rabbit hole the UK economy can go.

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Judging by his policies, I reckon he took the red pill. Now we are about to find out how far down the rabbit hole the UK economy can go.

At least it wasn't the blue pill - the UK's looking quite rogered as it is

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Judging by his policies, I reckon he took the red pill. Now we are about to find out how far down the rabbit hole the UK economy can go.

Absolutely. But not so much the economy... Hague and certain others are taking the UK down an interesting path... come the 2020s (the decade of "maximum danger" according to some, myself included) and the foreign office and MoD could be ready.

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Absolutely. But not so much the economy... Hague and certain others are taking the UK down an interesting path... come the 2020s (the decade of "maximum danger" according to some, myself included) and the foreign office and MoD could be ready.

Care to elaborate?

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Care to elaborate?

Our foreign policy and defence reorganisation/procurement seems to be targeting a turbulent 2020s decade. Seems France is also on the ball and we and the French are (just like exactly a century ago) allying ourselves. The 2020s will likely see a number of notable strategic events: ice-free Arctic, China overtaking the US in size of economy, energy and resources crises, etc etc. Multiple sh*ts hitting the fan basically. And we (and now the French, finally) know that the EU isn't up to it. And we also know that the US is now entering that end-of-being-the-#1-global-power stage, just like we had c. 1900s. How the US will manage it... they can't retain that position purely economically or demographically, so they may end up using their military clout one way or another... exactly at the time when China will have its blue-water navy in order, etc.

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Treasury Minister Mark Hoban said it was in the UK's interest to "ensure the continuing stability" of the eurozone.

Yeah right, whatever that means. Very likely it's in the UK's interest to have a stable europe but it doesn't have to be in the form of an undemocratic eu and an undemocratic rule breaking financial system in europe involving the euro. After all the UK people have only ever voted to agree to being involved in a Common Market.

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Yeah right, whatever that means. Very likely it's in the UK's interest to have a stable europe but it doesn't have to be in the form of an undemocratic eu and an undemocratic rule breaking financial system in europe involving the euro. After all the UK people have only ever voted to agree to being involved in a Common Market.

The Foreign Office (and the Treasury) is like the god Janus - it speaks to the public the mainstream view, but is behind-the-scenes working on a totally different path..

If the Eurozone implodes then our non-federate vision of the EU will be put into place.

If the Eurozone takes on central fiscal powers, then the UK will declare that it can never join such an entity, and we end up being an autonomous entity within an otherwise federal EU.

Either way, we don't do too badly.

Edited by Chuffy Chuffnell

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Our foreign policy and defence reorganisation/procurement seems to be targeting a turbulent 2020s decade. Seems France is also on the ball and we and the French are (just like exactly a century ago) allying ourselves. The 2020s will likely see a number of notable strategic events: ice-free Arctic, China overtaking the US in size of economy, energy and resources crises, etc etc. Multiple sh*ts hitting the fan basically. And we (and now the French, finally) know that the EU isn't up to it. And we also know that the US is now entering that end-of-being-the-#1-global-power stage, just like we had c. 1900s. How the US will manage it... they can't retain that position purely economically or demographically, so they may end up using their military clout one way or another... exactly at the time when China will have its blue-water navy in order, etc.

Ice Free Artic?

Do they actually believe the global warming hype? Even Greenpeace, arch disciples of this discredited philosophy are now back tracking from the untenable position of 'CO2 emissions being the major driver of climate change', as evidenced by their recent appearance on Newsnight when they seemed to accept that low sun spot activity is going to make things cooler, 'for a while'.

And how is allying ourselves with France going to help? Shouldnt we ally ourselves with someone trustworthy, a bit of power, and a manufacturer of decent cars?

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The Foreign Office (and the Treasury) is like the god Janus - it speaks to the public the mainstream view, but is behind-the-scenes working on a totally different path..

If the Eurozone implodes then our non-federate vision of the EU will be put into place.

If the Eurozone takes on central fiscal powers, then the UK will declare that it can never join such an entity, and we end up being an autonomous entity within an otherwise federal EU.

Either way, we don't do too badly.

Then why oh why doesnt the Foreign office talk directly with Germany, about abandoning the EU and turning it into a Free Trade zone? Germany would bite the UK's arm off. Once Germany and the UK left the EU to form their own bilateral trade zone, every other member of the EU, and Switzerland and Norway (and I bet Russia), would be banging on the door to get in as well.

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Ice Free Artic?

Do they actually believe the global warming hype? Even Greenpeace, arch disciples of this discredited philosophy are now back tracking from the untenable position of 'CO2 emissions being the major driver of climate change', as evidenced by their recent appearance on Newsnight when they seemed to accept that low sun spot activity is going to make things cooler, 'for a while'.

And how is allying ourselves with France going to help? Shouldnt we ally ourselves with someone trustworthy, a bit of power, and a manufacturer of decent cars?

here, have a toot on this puppy and you should be able to see it clearly

crack-pipe.jpg

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Ice Free Artic?

Do they actually believe the global warming hype? Even Greenpeace, arch disciples of this discredited philosophy are now back tracking from the untenable position of 'CO2 emissions being the major driver of climate change', as evidenced by their recent appearance on Newsnight when they seemed to accept that low sun spot activity is going to make things cooler, 'for a while'.

Have you seen the state of the Arctic ice sheet? It's about 1/3 what it was only 30-40 years ago. Last couple of summers, large freight vessels have managed to use the Arctic route to go East Asia - Europe. It is happening. And as well as opening up a new sea route, the land around it is become more habitable/agricultural, and there's a heck of a lot of oil and gas there!

And how is allying ourselves with France going to help? Shouldnt we ally ourselves with someone trustworthy, a bit of power, and a manufacturer of decent cars?

Erm, who do you have in mind? France is just about our best bet frankly. They have similar and complimentary military capabilities to us, they're not afraid to use those capabilities (unlike Germany and most of Europe) and they do, in the end, have the same interests as the UK (this can cause friction, but can also mean a useful alliance). It isn't coincidence that the first foreign policy decision the new government made was to form a new alliance with France.

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Then why oh why doesnt the Foreign office talk directly with Germany, about abandoning the EU and turning it into a Free Trade zone? Germany would bite the UK's arm off. Once Germany and the UK left the EU to form their own bilateral trade zone, every other member of the EU, and Switzerland and Norway (and I bet Russia), would be banging on the door to get in as well.

Erm, Germany don't want a free trade zone. They want a federal Europe, under German control. Hence the Euro, hence it being based in Frankfurt. Hence why they propose fiscal powers for the Eurozone instead of it breaking up. Germany is miles and miles away from the UK in foreign policy. France is much closer to us, and I'm not just talking geographically.

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Have you seen the state of the Arctic ice sheet? It's about 1/3 what it was only 30-40 years ago. Last couple of summers, large freight vessels have managed to use the Arctic route to go East Asia - Europe. It is happening. And as well as opening up a new sea route, the land around it is become more habitable/agricultural, and there's a heck of a lot of oil and gas there!

Erm, who do you have in mind? France is just about our best bet frankly. They have similar and complimentary military capabilities to us, they're not afraid to use those capabilities (unlike Germany and most of Europe) and they do, in the end, have the same interests as the UK (this can cause friction, but can also mean a useful alliance). It isn't coincidence that the first foreign policy decision the new government made was to form a new alliance with France.

In the summer a lot of ice melts. In winter it freezes. The reduction in ice, season to season seems negligible. Top Gear went to the pole in summer did they not, still lots of ice then.

Even greenpeace are saying it is likely to get colder.

As for an ally, I would want someone more afraid to go to war, no more adventuring in Libya and Iraq thanks.

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In the summer a lot of ice melts. In winter it freezes. The reduction in ice, season to season seems negligible. Top Gear went to the pole in summer did they not, still lots of ice then.

You know, a quick Google search would demonstrate the reduction in sea ice in recent decades. Or the new ice-free (summer only.. for now) route that has opened up only in recent years.

588012_f520.jpg

(that's summer 1979 - summer 2007 btw)

Edited by Chuffy Chuffnell

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Erm, Germany don't want a free trade zone. They want a federal Europe, under German control. Hence the Euro, hence it being based in Frankfurt. Hence why they propose fiscal powers for the Eurozone instead of it breaking up. Germany is miles and miles away from the UK in foreign policy. France is much closer to us, and I'm not just talking geographically.

From what I hear, there is massive support for leaving the euro, and the eu on Germany. Some of their top guys might not want to leave, and yearn for European federation, but their power is disintegrating. Best get on and propose a free trade zone. The federalist Europe is dead, Germans would never accept it now, even if all other nations did.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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